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Message started by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 10:29:01

Title: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 10:29:01

Hello everyone. It's been about a year since I've posted. I am having an issue with the 87 Savage. A little history: 87 that I installed a 95 engine. I wanted the five speed. I had to use the 87 magneto to stick with the stock 87 ignition. Raptor petcock, new shock seals, rebuilt the master cylinder and the caliper and new shoes on the back. Corbin seat from Serowbot. For 2 seasons the bike has run fine.Today I was getting the bike ready for the season. Changed the oil and filter and charged the battery. First attempt to start I cranked it about 6 or 7 seconds and stopped for a few seconds and tried again. On the second attempt she cranked about 1 revolution then abruptly stopped! At this point: no lights, no click pushing the start button. I have verified the fuses, clutch, side stand, and stop switches. All are ok. Battery is strong and fully charged. With the connector to the ign switch disconnected verified voltage to the ignition switch, and verified continuity through the switch at the pins where it should be with the key in the 3 positions! Seat is off, tank is off. Wiring all (looks) ok. Have I missed something? :'(

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by Ruttly on 05/21/16 at 11:30:56

Sometimes when battery is going bad , it will show the proper voltage but has lost the amperage it takes to turn the starter and/or active the starter relay. Check connections ar battery , relay , starter & charged battery has to show less than 12.7 volts. If you keep you meter on the battery while cranking see how much of a voltage drop there is. Post your findings.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/21/16 at 11:43:02

There is a connector under the tank that has been known to do just that. Vibration can loosen it, corrosion can screw with it.
If you have had the tank off you know that you'll Need a place to park it so the speedo cable is not crimped,, boy, that was a craptastic moment of understanding...

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 11:58:06

416667677F6A130 wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply Rutty. Known good battery. Pulled it back out just to make sure. Reconnected, all connections clean and tight. Will not crank....nothing. No lights, nothing.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 12:01:13

415E585F42457444744C5E52192B0 wrote:

Thanks for the reply justin. Tank is off. Short of unwrapping the wiring harness I have checked every connector. Wiring is sound, connections clean. I am baffled.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 12:06:37

Just want to add that wiring is not necessarily my strong point. With the Ignition switch harness connected, switch in the off position, if I probe the live wire I get battery voltage. If I then turn the Ignition switch to the on position, my reading drops to around .8 That doesn't seem right to me???

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/21/16 at 12:24:26

Tank is off. Short of unwrapping the wiring harness I have checked every connector. Wiring is sound, connections clean. I am baffled.

You can Prove your connections with an ohm meter. Each wire passes through. Power off, one lead on each side of the connector, should see zero ohms or close to it.

Aside from that, I don't know what all the sidestand interlock shuts off, or the kill switch... though, I Do know that my lights ran the battery down when I flipped the kill and forgot to turn off the key.

You should wait and let some of the better guys get in on this.
You know it can't be a total meltdown, no fuses died, no steeenkeeng scorched wires.
Might be as simple as wiring in the headlamp bucket, who knows? Just chill and consider what you Do know that it isn't and be sure you're right about that.
You Said the fuses were good, but didn't say exactly how you know.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 12:36:49

7C6365627F7849794971636F24160 wrote:

You can Prove your connections with an ohm meter. Each wire passes through. Power off, one lead on each side of the connector, should see zero ohms or close to it.

Aside from that, I don't know what all the sidestand interlock shuts off, or the kill switch... though, I Do know that my lights ran the battery down when I flipped the kill and forgot to turn off the key.

You should wait and let some of the better guys get in on this.
You know it can't be a total meltdown, no fuses died, no steeenkeeng scorched wires.
Might be as simple as wiring in the headlamp bucket, who knows? Just chill and consider what you Do know that it isn't and be sure you're right about that.
You Said the fuses were good, but didn't say exactly how you know.

Hey Justin, Multimeter. At first I gave the fuses the eyeball test :). But, as the issue dragged on I busted out the Multimeter. Clutch, kill switch, sidestand switches all have continuity when they should. I should have lights even if the sidestand were down and the clutch out??

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/21/16 at 12:55:59

Yeah, even if you flip the kill switch, you have lights. Some year models kill the headlamp when the start button is pushed to minimize the load on your battery.
Do you have brake lights? Pedal and front brake?

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 13:13:50

534C4A4D50576656665E4C400B390 wrote:

Nothing. I charged the battery for another hour and replaced the fuses just for good measure. Nothing. No lights, no clicks, nothing. Good voltage, but nothing. Ground cable is sound and firmly attached. I just don't know what I am overlooking!

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by Dave on 05/21/16 at 15:03:41

A battery can go bad in an instant. I had one that worked fine at the hardware store and started the bike right up....a mile down the street when I stopped for gas the battery died and wouldn't even make the neutral light glow. I got a jump and the bike fired right up, rode around for 40 minutes to charge the battery, and when I turned it off...nothing.

You need to put a volt meter on the battery when you turn on the key, and see what the battery reads when you apply a load. A battery that worked yesterday (or a mile down the street) can very easily short out and not work ever again.

And.....I believe you should never drain the oil and change the filter on a bike that has been in storage. You should start the bike with the oil and filter that is on the bike....then after it is running you can change it. When you drain the sump and put on a new filter....you now have a dry oil system when you go to start the bike, and the parts most likely have very little oil clinging onto them as they have had months for the oil to drip off. The bike won't have any oil pressure until the pump moves enough oil to fill the empty oil filter.......and that is OK on a bike that has been run recently and the parts have recently been coated with oil.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 15:26:48

Hey Dave, nice to hear from you. Thanks for the pointers. I will test the battery and report back shortly.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by batman on 05/21/16 at 15:42:06

Check your ground cable it runs from the battery to your case near the oil site glass, in about 2 inches ,is it clean and tight? If not ,nothing on the bike will have a complete circuit giving the symptom you have now no power anywhere.You have a 95 the fuses are good?When you turn the key to the second notch you should have headlight,tail light and turn signals ,turned to the third notch you should have the tail light ,these are not fused with the motor start/run circuits so should light unless all your bulbs burnt out at the same time!The only thing all circuits have in common is they lead back through the frame/engine to the ground at the battery.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/21/16 at 16:00:25

6C575A4D5C504B4D565E534C3F0 wrote:

Unfreaking believable!!! You nailed it Dave! Weird, I had 12.48-12.57volts every time I put my leads on it while trying to track down the issue. In retrospect I should have checked the voltage before I charged it this morning to get an idea where the battery stood. After you responded I considered putting my wife's battery in it. She rode today no issues. But, I put the battery charger on it at 10 amps and turned the key to on and the lights came on!! Unbelievable. I had even pulled it out and charged it for an hour to be SURE I was working with a good battery. One never stops learning. :D Thanks Dave and all the other members that helped out.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/21/16 at 16:35:44

Alligator clips that slip on the leads are very handy.
Used to be easy to get, now, notsumuch.
Connected from ground to the hot on the starter motor you can see what the battery is doing under load. Static voltage is completely different from what they actually do when challenged to provide current flow. If you don't have what you need a trip to have it tested beats Being tested.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by Ruttly on 05/21/16 at 20:54:16

When in doubt get the meter out !!! It never lies.

Title: Re: S.O.S
Post by 87 savage on 05/22/16 at 08:02:07

Thanks again for all who pitched in!! I love SuzukiSavage.com :)