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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Slapping sound (get some popcorn) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1462927712 Message started by Witchdoctor on 05/10/16 at 17:48:32 |
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Title: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/10/16 at 17:48:32 Hello everyone Ive been riding a 2011 s40 for a few months now and I lurk here. Got it with 17k its now around 19k. I'm in Florida..I'm 25 but this isn't my first Rodeo Ive been tearing chit apart and building/tinkering with mechanical things since I was a little kid. Before this I built some racing scooters lol. High compression ceramic piston titanium valves bla bla.. So I have a thing for thumpers I love the sound. This bike was very neglected it looks much older since it has been left in the elements its entire life until I rescued it haha. Ive already rebuild the carburetor, jetted it and added a K&N filter. Drilled out this carcass of an exhaust.. The carb float was leaking depending on the temperature outside and engine temp.. it would seal once warmed up and eventually stopped sealing filling up the airbox with gas and coming out of the overflow float bowl hoses. I think some got into my oil and might be a factor in this "slapping sound" New NGK sparkplug Amsoil with zink additive (if it works in a ceramic coated airsol 11.4:1 high compression 91cc 1.5mm stroker living at 13k rpm why not the s40) lol Valves are in spec and cams look brand new. Chain tensioner is getting close to flying out it had about 5mm left. Just ripped that thing out and I'm sending it to Verslagen :D So this slapping sound was present since I purchased the bike. At idle the bike sounds fine..once you give it a little throttle it makes a "slap"ing sound. I thought it was the piston. My buddy's 80cc made a similar sound and it was his piston rings they were completely worn out from mileage and it burned oil. So I assumed when I got it that it would need some work. It progressively got worse but never present at idle. Only when your on the throttle. When you start rolling it would only happen at some rpm's.. kind of random. After my last long trip it was BAD and did it at any speed but not at idle. I used a stethoscope to listen and it sounds like its coming from around the counterbalance area. :-/ SOOO Ive torn the entire thing apart engine's out and on my workbench. I'm getting a flywheel puller to see what the heck is going on. Hope to share the experience and ill have pictures once I'm allowed to post some LOL :D |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 05/10/16 at 18:02:14 Well I have been horribly slow about getting the word out - but we have some rental/borrow tools avaiable to the forum, and one part is the puller for the rotor, the big deep socket for the flywheel nut, a flywheel holder, and I still need to make a clutch basket holder. We were proposing a lifetime membership in the club for $ 20 - you pay shipping both ways for the tools. A one time "rental" would be $ 10 and you pay shipping both ways. A deposit of $ 150 would be required until the tools were returned......a rental period of 30 days is probably reasonable. Let me know if you want to be the first in the tool rental (membership) program. Up to this point I have paid for (or built) the tools, and once enough money comes in to pay for them....they will belong to the forum. Dave |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/10/16 at 19:06:31 I will definitely let you know Dave! I got lucky and found a flywheel puller at reasonable price. I think I might need a flywheel holder but who knows I might rig up something that will work. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/18/16 at 01:31:46 WOO! sorry for the double post :D So the flywheel side crankshaft bearing has some play in it.. so Ill be replacing that I'm sure. Also the clutch lock-nut was FINGER tight the bent washer was holding that nut in place ..specs say 36.9 to 51.6 ft-lb of torque.... :o I'm sure that cant be good. After Verslagen kindly enlightened me here.. I was able to remove my valve cover and I found some gasket maker all over the darn place including my cam. Also someone shoved a wad of some kind of metal mesh in the hole where the screen filter goes... :-? So much gasket maker all over.. it found its way into the space for the little rubber o-ring seal and deformed it permanently. luckily its not hurting anything. Some uneven wear to my cam and its getting plenty of oil.. so I'm not worried my cam never made much noise. http://i.imgur.com/tKqCGjF.jpg wtf? :D http://i.imgur.com/SCxq6DE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/r3YWApa.jpg Edit: holy crap my pictures are huge and might be screwing up the forum Edit: I resized them a bit |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 05/18/16 at 03:04:44 That wad of meshy metal is an official Suzuki part...make sure you put it back where you found it! If you leave it out - be prepared to get a lot of oil out the vent tube. Your head looks pretty good, and it is not uncommon for that little odd shaped O-ring to be a little deformed by sealer. I finally discovered why that seal is oddly shaped......the head was drilled and plugged in that location when they were making the oil channels in the head cover....and the machining made an oval shaped hole around the head stud - so they made a oval shaped O-ring to match. A little extra sealer and a deformed O-ring in that spot is OK....but it would be nice if you could control the application of sealer a bit better. I use the SuzukiBond, and I squirt it into a small syringe so I can get good control when applying the sealer. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/18/16 at 13:10:17 AWESOME! :D Quote:
Thanks Dave! Yeah I planned on using a fine line of gasket maker and not going overboard like the last owner.. syringe sounds like he way to go! Got my 46mm socket today! Just need to find a 300lb gorilla to jump on my torque wrench.. or see If I can borrow my buddy's impact wrench.. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 05/18/16 at 13:15:23 Also...the little rectangular area beneath the center of the cam is a trough that holds oil, and allows the cam lobes to dip into the oil as it rotates. Don't put any sealer on the front or back of the little well....look at the head cover to see where there is nothing for the sealer to be in contact with on top....and leave sealer off the well in that area (I have take some bikes apart that had a line of sealer on the edges of the well). |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/18/16 at 16:26:42 Yeah there was gasket maker/sealer IN that exact spot. Thanks for the help Dave! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Kris01 on 05/18/16 at 18:57:02 Dave, are you saying that sealer in that area won't contact anything above it? It will just dry on top of the bathtub and not do anything? |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 05/18/16 at 19:48:43 7B4259430001300 wrote:
Zactly....there is nothing on the head cover to come in contact with the front and rear portion of the well. It is there to hold some oil....not to seal against anything. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/23/16 at 15:00:08 SOOO :D Got my 46mm deep impact socket and the flywheel nut was torqued on with about 5lbs or less LOL! (WTF Dave had a similar issue WHY did this happen to us? Suzuki's fault? previous owners abuse???) EDIT: clutch basket nut was out of torque spec hand tight and the flywheel nut was out of spec. >:( The crankshaft roller bearing has some play in it.. Like I thought I have to replace that. Ill be cleaning up some stuff and splitting the cases soon as I get my chit more organized. My workbench is a nightmare currently. Dave's thread is similar to my issue.. Ill find out even more once I pull the head and jug. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1342319094/0 I wanna know why my flywheel nut was so loose.. I just want to ride my darn bike again.. lol At least I will have peace of mind once my bike is all back together.. Thanks for everyone help and wisdom. Here's some porn http://i.imgur.com/Cu1bjFQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/cZbF16L.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7ihVWZA.jpg |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/23/16 at 16:43:58 I think some got into my oil and might be a factor in this "slapping sound" Uggghhhh! That's awful. Thankfully you have the experience to deal with it. I wouldn't want to change just one end. They have endured the same environment. And you're There... I'm betting you're up to speed on the cam chain.. The Right gasket Goo is important. RTV isn't it. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/23/16 at 20:56:12 Yeah both need to be changed.. MAN now you have me thinking... I pray that all my other bearings are in spec.. or else I have one hell of a rebuild on my hands lol... I will find out soon haha. Yep! I got a tensioner coming from Verslagen!!! Hes busy but I'm not in a rush and very patient. He has also helped me a lot with basic info. 8-) I also thought about buying a brand new hardened cam chain so I don't have to stress any of that crap for a bit longer. I plan on getting the Suzuki head sealer. I'm still shocked both the clutch lock-nut and flywheel nut were so loose.. Also for the engine would fleabay suzuki gaskets be the way to go?? or is there anyplace recommended I get some gaskets?? Ive made my own before but I don't want to hobble together some hillbilly gaskets. LOL http://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/#/l/suz/505a0b2ef8700203b4ed1771/2011-boulevard-s40-ls650-parts I was going to get some parts here.. seems legit :-/ |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by KennyG on 05/23/16 at 22:20:57 Doctor, You can't go wrong with Ron Ayers. I have purchased Honda and Suzuki parts from Ron Ayers for years. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 05/24/16 at 03:03:32 You are on your way to recovery! Don't know why some bikes get a loose flywheel. This is the 3rd bike to suffer from it on this forum. When I put my bike back together I used the red (permanent) threadlocker on it. The manual doesn't require it - but quite frankly I never intend to need to take that nut off again....and if I do a little heat and impact wrench will get the nut off easily. I have about 6,000 miles on my bike since the engine was put back together, and it is working just fine. :) |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 05/24/16 at 03:21:14 69504B511213220 wrote:
Here is a head that had sealer placed on the edges of the well around the cam. Notice how nothing cam into contact with the sealer and flattened it out? It luckily just glued itself to the head and stayed in place.....doesn't appear any of it cam loose and blocked the hole that drains oil from the head. http://i63.tinypic.com/29b2brl.jpg |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/24/16 at 07:47:41 I didn't Know exactly where to spread the goo. I looked at the head cover. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 05/24/16 at 15:04:19 Sweet! Thanks Kenny! 8-) Dave red thread-lock idea sounds like good peace of mind!! Ill be doing the same haha!! With all that torque I guess anything can happen.. I appreciate everyone's input its nice to have support.. Other projects Ive done I just winged it and had no place to go for help. My 91cc scoot made it 14,000 miles before the titanium valves got eaten up by heat, crappy carb tuning, and ethanol. lol |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 07/18/16 at 16:49:21 Big thread bump hope thats ok? I have some questions.. Im waiting on parts and I have had almost no time to fix up the savage..work and life get in the way. I took some pictures of the piston and I was curious what everyone's thoughts are on the carbon buildup it has 19k miles. Also the head has 3 metal gaskets.. Im guessing to adjust the compression ratio. Is that stock? 3 gaskets? :-? Also the wrist pin inside the piston has about 2mm of play it slops back and forth between the retaining rings.. never seen that before on other engines.. what the fugg? is that normal? Here are the pictures.. thanks for everyone help. ALSO Verslagen sent the cam chain adjuster modded and darn it is nice. He even included my initials stamped into the side of it.. BAD A$$!! 8-) http://i.imgur.com/2gJCVuk.jpg http://i.imgur.com/HmQeKoS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jYwDVOJ.jpg |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 17:08:41 Wrist pin is steel. Piston is aluminum. Id be studying the hole in the piston to see if it's still round. Pin in hole, held up to light. Pin in one side of the hole, lift and lower in line with piston travel. Push and pull as if to go around the piston.. same? Different? Got dial calipers? Check everything.. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 07/18/16 at 17:25:24 5B444245585F6E5E6E56444803310 wrote:
Yes I have some nice calipers.. Ill be sure to check everything out. Side skirts and rings seem to be fine on the piston. Also looks like someone was already in this motor before me.. black sealant is oozing out all over the outside and the inside of the main seam of the engine cases. :( |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 17:40:51 You split the cases? |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 07/18/16 at 17:44:06 77686E6974734272427A68642F1D0 wrote:
yeah I did.. both crank bearings are out of tolerance from the flywheel nut coming loose. I can take some pictures of the sealant its all over.. I don't think suzuki would assemble it like this. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 07/19/16 at 04:19:35 The piston can move left/right on the wrist pin....that is normal as the cylinder holds the piston in place....not the rod and wrist pin. Play up/down is not.....the pin should not allow any kind of rocking motion. The pin moving in the piston is OK as well....as long as it move smoothly and does not have any slop. (This is the perfect time for you to install one of Lancers 94mm Wiseco pistons). The head gasket has 3 layers - they are bonded together at the cylinder wall. The carbon build up looks normal for a bike with that kind of mileage. If the bike spends a lot of time being ridden around town they do carbon up.....more time on the highway and they will have a bit less carbon. Using name brand gasoline with more detergents is supposed to help a bit. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 07/19/16 at 10:19:16 Thanks again Dave! 8-) I was thinking I might as well get a weisco piston while I'm already here rebuilding this thing. I might also want to throw in a new performance cam. I dont need it but I might WANT it haha. Ill see if I can get the extra $500 for both.... Its going to get a full transformation. Ive already got a bobber seat and some clip on handlebars. Ill come up with a name for it once I get the engine back together and I can focus on the rest of the bike. :P |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Dave on 07/19/16 at 10:27:29 053B26313A363D31263D20520 wrote:
We are supposed to name our bike? :-? |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 07/19/16 at 16:22:46 ;D Haha! I want to name it something give it some character!! I love my thumper.. I don't mind putting time, energy, money, blood, sweat, and whatever else into it.. unlike the average Joe who just buys new crap from the stealership. I built it.. I fix it its an extension of myself. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/19/16 at 16:57:27 What do Witchdoctors usually ride? |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 07/19/16 at 19:28:14 A moose. http://https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F3b%2F53%2F7b%2F3b537b96985f95212ee2fbc84b6e8df3.jpg&f=1 |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/19/16 at 19:45:50 I called mine Bull, shourt for Boulevard ,, Or, Bullwinkle,, ? |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by verslagen1 on 07/19/16 at 20:58:32 6A54495E5559525E49524F3D0 wrote:
naddamoose... raindeer or caribou http://https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Rentier_fws_1.jpg/220px-Rentier_fws_1.jpg |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/20/16 at 02:40:31 I expanded it,, and took a little better look. Would that be Mongolia? |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound (get some popcorn) Post by Witchdoctor on 08/15/16 at 17:42:26 :D I was just being stupid with the moose joke and your right its a reindeer. So I got most of my parts... I need to replace every bearing in the engine they are all out of spec..the left hand side counterbalance bearing is the worst of them all. My original intuition and hearing made me think that from the beginning. Also I'm assuming someone was inside this engine before and this is why the crank and clutch nuts were not torqued to spec. Inside black sealant is stuck to the sides of the cases in random spots. Sealant is all over the inside edges where the cases split. If the factory did that holy sh!t Suzuki... Anyway ill have some pics eventually haha.. Thanks again for everyone's help so far...I appreciate it. |
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Title: Re: Slapping sound FIXED THANKS FOR EVERYONES HELP Post by Witchdoctor on 12/26/16 at 23:28:24 Sorry I haven't been on here in with any updates. :P I did manage to get the engine back together and so far I have put about 1100 miles on this engine with no issues.. just thumpin. http://i.imgur.com/Rfh3mGX.jpg |
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