|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1462468187 Message started by VortecCPI on 05/05/16 at 10:09:46 |
|
Title: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/05/16 at 10:09:46 New here to SuzukiSavge.com. I am the proud owner of a 1986 Yamaha SRX600 and very fond of one-lungers so I convinced my wife to buy a like-new 2012 S40. She likes things with sound so I installed a MAC Slash-Cut muffler, 55 pilot jet, and 150 main jet. The bike runs great but needs the needle lifted a bit. I didn't do it yet because the tank will not come off with the petcock installed. The guys at MAC were not sure if their muffler would fit the newer models so I let them know and sent them a bunch of pictures. I figured I'd do the same here. The pipe fit like a glove so apparently there have been no changes since the model was re-branded. Great fit and finish. A little on the loud side but she likes it. I have no airbox and SuperTrapp with open end cap on my SRX600 so I make more noise anyhow. I found a lot of very useful information in here so I thank all of you for your contributions and support. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/05/16 at 10:20:08 My 1986 Yamaha SRX600 with airbox delete, Dynojet kit, K&N pods, tiny battery, SuperTrapp exhaust, and 27 pounds of junk removed. There were only about 1,000 imported here in the USA in 1986 and most were raced, crashed, and trashed. My father bought this one new in 1987 after it sat in the corner of the dealer showroom for a year and I spent the last year restoring it. It only has ~7,000 miles on it and the engine is wicked strong. It is only 8.5:1 like the S40 but it has two carbs -- A flat-slide primary and a round-slide CV secondary. The bike now weighs about 360 pounds so that coupled with the bolt-ons and light factory flywheel results in a very strong fast-revving engine. The S40 makes a lot more off-idle and low-mid but the SRX600 makes wicked midrange power. Mild Web (3)87 cam sitting on my desk to be joined by a Wossner flat-top milled for 10:1 when time permits. Though it's the wrong bike I figured a few of you might enjoy it. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/05/16 at 14:44:20 Three options Drain gas, remove petcock Raise rear of tank till petcock hits frame, slap tank, clear petcock, lose some paint, ask how I know.. Drain tank, remove petcock, buy Raptor petcock. I suggest the latter. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by striknein on 05/05/16 at 15:37:45 Clearing the frame from the petcock can be tricky. I've found it easiest to straighten the handlebars, remove the seat, and slide the tank forward towards the front end. Tilt the tank toward the right side of the frame and lift the back end of the tank and it should clear. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by norm92de on 05/05/16 at 17:14:10 I'm not quite sure how I did it but I removed my tank twice without much problem. I did scratch the paint on the frame a bit but not enough to be an issue. It was more of a wiggle it around a bit and it came loose. Then I put a Raptor on it because I really don't like vacuum petcocks. I firmly adhere to the KISS school of thought. :) |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by Kris01 on 05/05/16 at 17:35:25 I don't even mess around with removing the tank "as is". I remove the petcock and save myself a lot of trouble. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/05/16 at 19:41:22 Thank you all for your suggestions regarding tank removal. I did try pretty hard to remove the tank by pulling and rapping with my palm but I could not get the petcock past the frame. All i got was a lot of scratched paint on a bike with only 1,200 miles on it. I will drain the tank and remove the petcock. The carb is good overall but it is a bit lazy to input so I know the needle is too low. The 55 pilot works great with about 1-1/2 turns out on the idle mixture screw. WOT at the top is just fine with the 150 main. I tested it using Mikuni's Roll-Off method so I know it's close. http://www.mikuni.com/tg_main_jet_size.html |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by HovisPresley on 05/05/16 at 19:56:39 Your SRX looks like great fun to ride 8-) |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by KennyG on 05/05/16 at 20:04:34 Vortec, Change to the Raptor petcock and you will have no future difficulties removing the tank. Kenny G |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/06/16 at 06:32:03 44637A657F5C7E697F6069750C0 wrote:
The SRX sure is a blast and it is quite a conversation piece. I have Progressive Suspension fork springs and proper Race Sag so it handles wonderfully. We have been working with a vintage suspension tuner here in NC for many years (Bruce Triplett) and he will be doing his magic on the damper rods very soon. For short rides the old SRX is a wonderful machine but if the rides have a lot of stops (and they usually do) kicking gets tedious. Thought it almost always starts first kick cold or hot, the kicking takes some of the fun out of it. It also has very fast steering, which is great for endless turns but not so much for long straight rides. The S40 is a wonderful machine and I really like the engine, slower steering, and seating position. I had a Road King for a while and the S40 has a nice cruiser feel. The rear is a little stiff and the tranny is a little noisy but overall it is a great bike. My wife absolutely loves the bike now that it has a pipe and almost-right jetting. Once I get the needle squared away it will be perfect. With the stock jetting it was just miserable. Even when it was hot it was still way too lean on the pilot. Now it pulls like a freight train. The S40 is incredibly torquey right off idle. Where my SRX will easily stall due to the light flywheel the S40 chugs with two up no problem. I have always liked the Savage and I am happy to have the S40 in my garage. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by stewmills on 05/06/16 at 08:08:21 566F72746563435049000 wrote:
A black sharpie (permanent marker) is your friend. I did the same thing on my 'new' bike and used a sharpie to color in the scratched paint areas and it blends in just fine. If someone is close enough to see that you used a sharpie on the frame under the tank they are too close to your bike >:( |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by Tocsik on 05/06/16 at 08:31:45 sounds like you have a good handle on how to jet. Wish I had that knowledge; it would be great to have mine tune "just right". Not sure I have the ability to even tell if it's out of whack. Diggin' the 3-rotor disc brakes on your SRX. Had a few "crap, I'm I gonna be able to stop in time?!" moments on the S40. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by DesertRat on 05/06/16 at 11:58:29 526B706A2928190 wrote:
I'm a slow learner, took me a couple times fighting with the d@mned tank before I realized if I remove the petc0ck 1st, the tank comes off WAY EASIER ... :D |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by stewmills on 05/06/16 at 12:51:00 If it makes you feel any better, I didn't realize the first few times that you can disconnect the speedo cable from the tranny as opposed to under the tank at the speedo itself. Try reaching up under the tank (still tethered to the bike) once the tank is loose and unhooking the speedo cable from the speedo. NOT an easy thing to do :o :o :o :o |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/07/16 at 06:10:33 282F3E2C36323737285B0 wrote:
Yes sir! I use it frequently on the 30-year-old SRX! 546F6373696B000 wrote:
I have been tuning for many decades and I had the fortune of a lot of great mentors. Jetting is not as hard as you may think and I can get you close very quickly. While there is a lot of jetting data in this forum we seem to be lacking some of the basic guidelines. The three-disc system on the SRX is simply insane. I use one finger up front and light contact on the rear. I have had to stop her fast a few times and the stopping power is remarkable. With new proper fork springs and proper Race Sag it stops fast and straight. The SRX is basically a detuned race track bike. With the simple bolt-on mods and light weight it is quite capable for what it is. Most of the 1,000 imported into the USA back in 1986 were raced, crashed, and trashed. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/07/16 at 06:20:57 My latest endeavor is tuned-length intake stacks. The big single needs a lot of length and I have a lot more to go but this is a good start. You can see the YDIS twin-carb setup in the picture. Primary is a 27mm flat-slide with inlet bell mated to 1-1/4" NPS coupling and then 1.75" OD tube with 1.75" K&N pod. Secondary is a 27mm CV with inlet bell mated to 1-1/2" NPS coupling and then 2.00" OD tube with 2.00" K&N pod. Tuned intake runners can get you big gains over certain RPM ranges. This particular setup really boosted my midrange torque and power. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by Kris01 on 05/07/16 at 07:14:51 69485E485F597F4C592D0 wrote:
Yep, it just pulls right off! ;) |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by Kris01 on 05/07/16 at 07:28:02 1E273A3C2D2B0B1801480 wrote:
Yep, you'd be surprised. I like math and numbers. Try this formula for a close idea of what RPMs you're influencing. ;) A = Primary runner area in sq. centimeters L = Primary runner length in cm Cr = Compression ratio V = Displacement per cylinder in cc's c = Speed of sound (340 m/s) 642 * c * sqr(A / (L * V)) * sqr((Cr - 1) / (Cr + 1)) |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/07/16 at 13:41:02 Round 3 of SRX600 intake tuning. So this is what happens when you have a big single that can only turn 7,000. This is my third attempt at intake tuning and each time it got longer it got stronger. Original setup was pods on the bells and that was garbage. I did create an airbox area by installing a cover over the open ind of the swingarm. The priimary filter is now serviceable via the side cover. Since this filter sees 80% of the air intake duty it needs to be cleaned more often than the secondary filter so this is great. Also... The secondary filter now has way more breathing area around it because the primary filter is no longer right next to it. not only that, the new primary runner has opened up space for fresh air to more easily reach the secondary filter. So far I can see only benefits and no negatives to this very simple modification. So now that we have increased the intake runner length what does that do for the engine? Total primary runner length is now right about 20" which gives: + For 2nd harmonic, RPM range is from 5,874 to 7,128 with a pulse strength of 10 percent + For 3rd harmonic, RPM range is from 4,414 to 5,044 with a pulse strength of 7 percent + For 4th harmonic, RPM range is from 3,441 to 3,848 with a pulse strength of 4 percent Blah, blah blah... So what does it mean? It means the primary intake runner is now tuned for three different harmonics that are ALL withing my engine's operating range! I just get a BIG boost from 5,874 to 7,128, a GOOD boost from 4,414 to 5,044 and a SMALL boost from 3,441 to 3,848. So what else? The secondary runner is tuned for 4th harmonic, RPM range is from 5,984 to 6,692 with a pulse strength of 4 percent. So while the secondary runner is not optimal it WILL add a small boost from 5,984 to 6,692. That coupled with the primary 2nd harmonic should work great. So what did it do? A LOT. Kind of hard to believe what a difference it made. The exhaust note now has a very distinct CRACK from about 4,000 to 6,000. I believe this is from the mild ram effect of the system. Absolutely stupid amounts of torque from an internally stock engine. I can't wait to get the Web (3)87 in there with a Wossner piston milled for 10:1. I know, I know... It's in the wrong forum but I figured you guys might enjoy it. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/07/16 at 23:03:25 073E253F7C7D4C0 wrote:
Yep, you'd be surprised. I like math and numbers. Try this formula for a close idea of what RPMs you're influencing. ;) A = Primary runner area in sq. centimeters L = Primary runner length in cm Cr = Compression ratio V = Displacement per cylinder in cc's c = Speed of sound (340 m/s) 642 * c * sqr(A / (L * V)) * sqr((Cr - 1) / (Cr + 1)) [/quote] Where did you get 642? What is the *? Did you come up with that formula? I think intake tuning is important. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/08/16 at 04:28:05 073E253F7C7D4C0 wrote:
The formula is for Helmholtz Resonance and "*" represents product (multiplication). There are many formulas for intake tuning and this is one of them. Intake valve closing/timing also plays into it but that is only if you must be tuned for an extremely specific RPM range. If I was a sponsored racer I would likely be a heck of a lot more precise. The bottom line is the intake originally had a length of only 8", which was really not even usable for the big single. The second intake had a length of only 11.5", which was starting to be usable for the big single. This last intake has a length of 20", which is very usable for the big single. I was fortunate because the SRX has ample room under the tank and under the seat. It is kick-start only and has a tiny 3.3AH SLA 3.3 battery. I used all that area to fit all the new intake components. The factory SRX600 uses the same tiny flat filter the SRX uses. My SRX now has 60 sq in of air filter area (not including p;eats) which is pretty large. I used this site to get me close: http://www.bgsoflex.com/intakeln.html |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by Kris01 on 05/08/16 at 09:24:36 To answer your question JOG... Yeah...what he said! ;D The Helmholtz formula will get you close. There are too many variables for it to be exact.The real world doesn't run off of a calculator. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/16 at 13:20:39 I think intake tuning is important. .. Still. But sucking air in is not driven by a piston, so, if you want peak performance, you need to look at this. I would like to see this studied on the savage. Like jetting, it's just doing the best you can. There's no Perfect. But, if someone is gonna spend the money and time to work on the exhaust and cam, or more, they otta check out what a tuned intake can do. I wish I woulda had the formula and smarts to use it. All I could get done was increase the volume of the airbox a little.. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by Kris01 on 05/08/16 at 15:13:26 The problem with a motorcycle is we can't cut a hole in the hood and stick a tunnel ram intake through it. We're very limited with how much space we have. It's a compromise at best to get good performance with a tuned intake. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/10/16 at 06:00:57 I finally tuned the secondary side as well. Correct in that engines don't "suck". The piston creates a low pressure area that is filled by way of 14.7 PSIA of atmospheric pressure rushing into the low-pressure area. Runner area controls velocity and runner length controls resonant frequencies. I did the best I could given the volume I had available, which is about 600 cubic inches. Total air cleaner surface area is 63 square inches, not including pleats. Each time I decreased runner area and/or increased runner length the midrange got stronger and stronger. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/16 at 06:07:12 So, based on what you have learned, would it be reasonable to expect that the Savage, with the stock airbox would be stronger than with a two inch tube and a cone filter? My daughters Toyota has a box on the intake line, nothing goes to it, nothing in it, and it's between the grill and the filter.. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by Art Webb on 05/10/16 at 06:53:23 very interesting discussion JOG, I wonder if the box you reference is a resonator, to muffle intake noise, some Fords had one, but the only Jeeps I know anything about are old CJs on the 95 - up crown vics, we often had to modify the airbox as they would develop an intake howl over time that was very annoying |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/10/16 at 14:59:59 081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:
Yes - For most operating ranges except perhaps WOT at redline. Pods on, or very close to, the carb inlet bell is a very bad idea for slow-turning engines like the LS650 and my SRX600. See here: http://www.exx.se/techinfo/runners/runners.html And here: http://www.phaedrus.me/id153.html My SRX600 makes very good power right up to 7,000 RPM and I assume the LS650 gives up a bit earlier. In that case longer is better. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/16 at 15:16:25 In that case longer is better. I'm just Sure I've heard that somewhere, but dadgum if I can remember EXACTLY who said it. |
|
Title: Re: 2012 S40 with MAC Exhaust System Post by VortecCPI on 05/11/16 at 04:24:08 After looking at the HD XR1200 dyno sessions again this dyno chart expresses EXACTLY what it feels like happened to my SRX600. I got a big boost in TQ right from the bottom but from 3,500 to 5,500 it is drastic. The dyno chart shows increases of about 8% which complies nicely with 2nd harmonic strength. So what about mains? During testing of Round 3 the Mikuni Roll-Off Method showed mains were still good. The HD XR1200 tuner said "The air flow was so much better, that I had to make three major adjustments to the baseline mapping of the Thundermax, to allow the base map to add enough fuel. This tube caused so much air to flow in the TQ band, that the engine went radically lean and was pinging badly until I got the engine retuned." I don't know if the HD XR1200 used Mass Air Flow or or Speed-Density but if it used the former it would have adjusted accordingly. The fact the tuner had to compensate to such a great degree leads me to believe it is Speed-Density. Carburetors adjust automatically to increased air flow because signal is increased. I didn't have time to test using the Mikuni Roll-Off Method yesterday so perhaps I am a bit too lean at the top now. I do have a Dial-A-Jet in stock so perhaps I will install that. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |