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Message started by Drey on 05/03/16 at 16:53:20

Title: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/03/16 at 16:53:20

Hey, everyone. My savage is an 09 just over 9600 miles. I've started having a chirping or squeak when I'm decelerating but only if the clutch is engaged. Seems to be coming from the left hand side, I can first hear it around 20mph but it gets loud around 25mph. (I commute in Seattle so there is a lot of starting and stopping in that speed range.) Doesn't happen if I'm on the throttle or if I'm using the engine to brake. If I'm slowing down with the engine and pull the clutch it starts, release clutch it goes away.

First started noticing something about a week ago but couldn't put my finger on it. Went for ~70 mile ride Sunday and didn't hear it. Then today it's loud and pronounced. Seems to be coming from the left side.

Ideas? Hopefully something obvious and easy to fix!? :D

Thanks for your wisdom, everyone!

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/03/16 at 22:11:07

Check the belt tension, there is a
How to Git er Done section.
This high falutin bunch went full on geek and named it
The Tech Section

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Redryder652 on 05/03/16 at 22:14:30

Check your belt, make sure you can turn it 90 degrees with just your fingers. Make sure you do this in the midpoint between the front and rear pulley. If you can't turn it 90 degrees, it's too tight. If you can turn it more than 90 degrees, too loose.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Struch on 05/04/16 at 02:14:26

I agree it is most likely your belt!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ZsZzTwRyk

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/04/16 at 08:00:07

Thanks, guys. I'll check it and report back.

I've seen this video before. I do have one question should it turn 90 degrees pretty easily (the video looks like minimal effort) or should there be a fair amount of resistance?

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/04/16 at 08:11:08

Fifth grade girl effort. And she is not straining.

You may hafta play with it some. Might not ever completely win. I didn't. I used Gulf canning wax. It got particularly obnoxious after a ride in the rain.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/06/16 at 08:06:14

So it seems looser than it's ever been. I do check it periodically but not a lot looser. The effort to twist it has just gone down but seems similar to the videos. I'm tempted to tighten it.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/06/16 at 08:16:45

Grab the rear pulley with a hand on the front and another on the back, and see if you can wobble the pulley (not rotate) by pushing with one hand toward the wheel while you pull back with the other hand.

If there is a lot of play, the hub bearing is getting loose, and it can allow the rear pulley to wobble around.

A "fix" can be made using rubber floor mats.....if the bearing is allowing a lot of play it might need to be replace, and then shimmed with the floor mat.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/16 at 12:13:42

09 just over 9600 miles

Mine was like a constant chorus of crickets. Of COURSE, when I asked the dealership to check it out, they couldn't get it to do it.

Coff, coff...

What Dave said, definitely.
And, the rubber segments are getting old. Rubber is rubber. They aren't in the sun, but hot and cold,I guess it's all gonna add up.
Once you really have a look at how it's put together and think about what kinda stresses that part of the bike deals with, that they hold up as well as they do is kinda amazing.
I know how it feels to nail that thing and feel it accelerate.
The belt is pulling on the top of that pulley, HARD, and it's trying real hard to twist the pulley on the axle. You're mashing the rubbers, and just giving everything that is trying to keep the pulley centered on the axle a real beating.
I think another possible cause of a chirp is the teeth on the belt take a set,, and are slightly tilted, and maybe under deceleration the lower front edge of the teeth are touching the back side of the top teeth of the front pulley.
You could drag a bar of Gulf canning waxfrom front to rear under the top side of the belt and rear to front on the bottom side and see what happens.
Or, a bar of Ivory soap that is new, not soft from water yet.
That stuff works a trick on sticking wooden drawers.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/06/16 at 12:32:06

Here is a link to the floor mat thread.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1446828836/0

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by stewmills on 05/06/16 at 12:42:50

And if you don't want to bother making one, I think I have a couple of leftover shims lying around. $5 shipped, which covers the material, postage, packaging (and engineering ;D).

Just covering my expenses ;)

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/07/16 at 12:43:23

Appreciate the help, guys! I think this might be getting beyond my meager mechanical ability. I'll probably take it to a shop that I've been to before (wouldn't really say, "trust") as see what they say.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/09/16 at 16:48:58

Ok, So I talked to a mechanic. I came away feeling like I know more about working on this bike than he did... which is a little worrying. ;-)

He didn't think it sounded bad but to me it's pretty loud and seemingly getting worse.

He did seem to think it was probably coming from the front pulley? Said greasing it might help. I'm reading through my clymers and it says to drop the oil and disconnect the battery, etc. in order to get at the front pulley. Can I just take the cover off? What sort of grease would you throw in there?

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by engineer on 05/09/16 at 17:51:30

My belt tended to make squeals, chirps, whines etc. depending on the humidity and it's mood. WD40 was an easy way to silence it temporarily. Spray the sides of the belt with the WD40 and see if the noise goes away. If it does you'll know the problem is the belt rubbing on the pulley.

In March before I rode the bike this year I put a coarse sanding drum on a Dremel and I put a very small inward taper on the side of each tooth (both sides of the belt). The idea is that they will slide into place as the pulley rotates without dragging on the sides as much as when they were square.

The weather here has been cold and wet and I have only been on two decent rides since the change and so far no squeaks, squeals, chirps or whines. I hope it stays that way.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/16 at 21:03:08

The only people who know less about these bikes than a Suzuki mechanic is someone who has never seen a motorcycle.
The bike is too cheap to be hauling in to the shop. They never see them. We have seen two motors ruined by professional mechanics who installed the oil filter Backwards..
You're ahead to be patient, ask here, work through it.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/10/16 at 04:17:21

I wouldn't grease anything related to the belt or pulley....it would make a mess.

You can take the pulley side cover off (the one with the slotted holes) with just 3 hex head screws....there are rubber bushings and spacers on the cover (keep track of where they go as they are different lengths). Check the pulley and make sure it is tight.

I would recommend tapering the sides of the belt slightly as others have suggested, then apply a bit of wax or soap on the sides of the belt. Don't grind away any of the side of the belt - just put a small taper on the tooth portion.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/10/16 at 09:29:38

Awesome! Thanks everyone. I'll take a look at it this weekend assuming weather holds up (no garage).

Probably try the soap/wax suggestion first then taper the teeth later if it's needed. Anyone have a picture of their belt after this has been done as a reference?

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/16 at 09:57:00

It's easier to stay even and not go too far if you mark something before you grind.
A straight edge, clamped to the belt, a silver sharpie, make a line and don't go past it.
How these guys got to the inside edge, I don't know. .
What tool was used , I don't know.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/10/16 at 10:20:04

253A3C3B2621102010283A367D4F0 wrote:

How these guys got to the inside edge, I don't know. .
What tool was used , I don't know.

That "wondered me" as well.......the only thing I could imagine doing was taking an angle grinder to the outside - then taking the belt off and turning it around to do the other side.

It shouldn't be ground at a shallow angle - you just need to take off a very small amount of the bottom of the tooth. All you are trying to do is stop the tooth from sliding on the pulley sides as the belt engages on the pulley.

I don't hear those high pitched noises anymore....so I have no idea if my belt squeaks or whines. (My wife lets me know if I am whining too much)! :-?

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/16 at 12:13:40

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/16/16 at 18:20:38

Good news! Tightened the belt and the squeak is gone!

Tightened ~1/2 notch a little less - might be a bit too tight. I'll probably adjust it. Rode around for a while and squeak is completely gone. Thanks for the help everyone!

But there is some bad news. I think it is probably time for a new belt... When I got back from testing it out. I noticed some white bands on the belt and then upon closer inspections some small cracks. :-\

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=1192912A1A6F67A!99649&authkey=!ABdKhU3XPYJyqug&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

1) How much does a new belt cost?
2) How hard is it to put one on?
3) Approximately how much would it cost to have a dealer replace it?

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Art Webb on 05/17/16 at 08:15:46

to the best of my knowledge no one on this forum has ever worn out a belt
Even guys with 100k on their bikes

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/17/16 at 08:37:21

The belts can be over-tightened, and those white cracks on the outside of the belt are a good indicator that the belt was run too tight at some point.

Youzguyz and Raydawg have both needed belts..not sure of the mileage when they needed them - but it was up there. Raydawg had his break while he was riding, and he was not sure why it broke as the belt showed no issues (other than no longer being a circle).

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Drey on 05/17/16 at 12:12:47

I've only had this bike for two years of it's life so I'm going to blame the previous owners for any over tightness. Pretty bummed to hear I got 1/10th of the life out of this thing

You guys are in agreement that I'm going to have to replace it even after just under 10k miles? *SIGH* I suppose I'll contact some local dealers...

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/17/16 at 12:31:41

707F7E61637069310 wrote:

There is no way to know for sure how long ti will last......it could go for a very long time. I would keep riding, and watch for a chance to get a good used belt when one comes along. Often folks are building bikes where they want a chain, and belts are available several times a year in the Marketplace. Obviously you want one as new and as low mileage as you can find. Every now and then you can find one on eBay that is affordable - but often they are overpriced and sometimes damaged.

This one looks nice - but is expensive:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-LS-650-SAVAGE-DRIVE-BELT-CRUISER-27611-24B00-133-/282018431569?hash=item41a99bc251:g:qiQAAOSwL7VWrq6L&vxp=mtr

This one looks good:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-650-LS-SAVAGE-LS650-Used-Rear-Drive-Belt-1998-SB35-/111980441234?hash=item1a128dee92:g:qMgAAOSw1DtXIA0p&vxp=mtr

This one appears to have some cuts in it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-650-LS-SAVAGE-LS650-Used-Rear-Drive-Belt-1998-SB35-/111980441234?hash=item1a128dee92:g:qMgAAOSw1DtXIA0p&vxp=mtr

This one is overpriced and scary looking....looks like is came from a bike stored outside in a junkyard:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-suzuki-ls650-savage-belt-/181916220417?hash=item2a5b0d3c01:g:DkkAAOSwo0JWMWSg&vxp=mtr

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by KennyG on 05/17/16 at 17:08:22

Dave,

With a list price of $225.00 is there anything we can do to make the belt last longer, other than proper adjustment?

I remember back in the olden times there was a product called "Belt Dressing" that was supposed to help extend the life of fan belts.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/18/16 at 02:57:18

I don't believe the belts decompose from exposure.....they are well protected from the sun!

The most important thing to do is keep the belt at a proper tension, and I believe a bit loose is a bit better than too tight. And keep the pulley aligned....and do the floor matt mod to the pulley hub so the rear pulley wobbles as little as possible. And listen for a "click,click,click,click" that would indicate you have a stone stuck in the belt....and remove it ASAP.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by KennyG on 05/18/16 at 06:03:18

Dave,

At approximately what mileage should the floor mat modification be done?

Kenny G

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/18/16 at 06:11:48

It is my belief it should be done ASAP, and it is never "too soon" to do it. I did mine at 1,200 miles.

The bearing in the pulley hub will get less eccentric load on it when the floor matt support is added.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by KennyG on 05/18/16 at 17:52:49

Dave,

Darn, I have one of the floor mat cutouts from Stew and I just had the tires changed at 5000 miles and never thought to make the change since there was no wiggle in the back wheel.

Now that you have your lathe setup can you make the bearing that you show in one of your older posts?

Kenny

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/18/16 at 19:52:10

5779725F6E7D6F741C0 wrote:

Now that you have your lathe setup can you make the bearing that you show in one of your older posts?

Kenny

Yep.....and I got a fresh order of brass last week.

The only big problem for me right now, would be finding the time to do it. I am swamped at work and at home.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by KennyG on 05/18/16 at 21:33:53

Dave,

If you ever get time to make the bearing put me on the list for one.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by Dave on 05/19/16 at 04:23:09

705E5578495A48533B0 wrote:

Dave,

If you ever get time to make the bearing put me on the list for one.

Kenny G

OK....I have some extra pulley hubs - maybe I could do an exchangey/core kind of thing after I machine them and install the brass bushing.

Title: Re: Chirp/Squeak when clutch engaged
Post by KennyG on 05/19/16 at 05:54:24

Dave,

At some point in time I could send my hub to you and hsve you take care of it and ship it back?

Kenny G