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Message started by Doug B on 04/26/16 at 03:48:37

Title: Its Been A While
Post by Doug B on 04/26/16 at 03:48:37

Its Been A While(good song) since I've been around, so I thought I'd make a cameo appearance. It's been well over a year since I've posted anything. It's been over two years since my last ride. In early April 2014 as I pulled into my gravelled driveway the front tire washed out, and I was unable to keep it upright. The bike kept running(on it's side), and I rode back to it's parking place. I also took a 20 mile ride a few days later. A couple of days after that when I turned the key - nothing. No lights, no sounds, no anything. I became frustrated in my 19 month old motorcycle(when I should've been frustrated at the operator). I probably loosened a connection or two, and foolishly have let the bike sit since. I use additives, and put plenty of STA-BIL and ethanol treatment in the tank. As time passed I added more, and have shaken the bike(fuel tank) periodically. I have not, however, yet drained the tank(again - foolishly). I just added some fresh fuel and treatments(Sea Foam, Star Tron, fuel injector cleaner), but have done nothing else. Any advice before I start the work ahead of me would be much appreciated. :-[ :-[

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by jrobeson18 on 04/26/16 at 04:14:04

Pull the seat and tank, check all connectors. Put the battery on a tender/charger or replace( I would). And I would drain the tank and get some new gas. Oil change. And check tires for dry rot:) good luck.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/16 at 04:36:56

Save yourself a headache. Haul your battery to be tested.
And be prepared to buy a new one. I'm betting that one is done.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by stewmills on 04/26/16 at 10:02:51

Definitely drain the tank and use fresh gas before you run it.

You may want a little seafoam or additive to help clean the carb if you aren't dropping the carb and giving it a quickie, but you don't want an excess of additives because it will "wash" the cylinder of the oil it needs for lubrication.

My suggestion is clean the carb and don't run any additives through it unless it seems you need to. It might puff an poof a bit when you crank it for the first time but once fuel gets flowing and it warms up it should burn off all of the cobwebs.
;)

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/16 at 12:03:54

In two years all kindsa stuff can happen.

Don't even allow fuel into the carb.
Dump what you have,check the tank for rust.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by Doug B on 04/26/16 at 13:58:02

Right - drain the tank - I should've stated that. I thought putting in some fresh gas with an overkill of additives might help loosen some of the rust/varnished fuel before doing so. Right again about running it with too much(washing effect). I remember seeing that at the engine shop I worked at 25-30 years ago. Just before my gravel accident(two years ago) I bought a new battery(stock from Suzuki), and put in Amsoil(fully-synthetic) and a new filter. The battery might have some life left in her, but the oil ? My plan was to run it with the old oil to get it running - then drain. I might have to change that part of the plan. Another concern was what JOG2 mentioned - "In two years all kindsa stuff can happen". I'm guessing some of you might have seen(or became aware of) other possible negatives that can happen to a bike sitting for two-plus years. Please chime in. Thanks for your ideas so far.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by DesertRat on 04/26/16 at 14:17:18

order of operations:

1. drain all fluids
2. replace all fluids with new per service manual
3. change spark plug with new
4. change battery for new
5. pull carb
6. clean carb
7. re-install carb
8. replace air filter with new
9. check as many hoses as possible
10. turnover bike (start bike)

It's easier to troubleshoot when you know that these req'd maintenance have been performed.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/16 at 14:58:18

Id change oil. Dump the super duper stuff out, get some stuff to protect the engine. Rotella T 15/ 40
Pay for a quart what a gallon can be had for and get less protection for your cam. Even IF they are equal in
Being A Good Oil
Why pay Amsoil prices.

Now that I know that, I wonder if dumping oil in the cylinder first isn't a good idea.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by Dave on 04/26/16 at 15:29:49

I would not change the oil or filter until it is running.....when you remove those things a lot of oil comes out of the engine, and then when you start the engine you have no oil pressure for a few seconds while the system refills....that is not good.

I would also take the front valve inspection cap off, and do something to get oil on the cam lobes and rockers.

I would also remove the spark plug, and put a few ounces of very light oil inside the cylinder. Even better yet....go buy some Sta-Bil fogging oil and follow the directions to spray it in the cylinder. After 2 years of sitting, the piston/cylinder most likely has very little oil to keep the piston from scuffing during the first few seconds of running - when no oil is coming off the crank yet.

You can then change the oil and filter once you get the engine started and warmed up a little......and all the parts are coated with a film of oil that will help the engine survive while the new filter fills with oil.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by DesertRat on 04/26/16 at 16:04:32

Dave, since the bike has been sitting for years now, do you think the majority of the oil has settled down in the case by now?

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/16 at 16:22:22

That's the point Dave is making,

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by Dave on 04/27/16 at 03:18:35

1A3B2D3B2C2A0C3F2A5E0 wrote:

Dave, since the bike has been sitting for years now, do you think the majority of the oil has settled down in the case by now?

It is possible that the majority of the oil has moved down to the sump - but the oil filter will still have a substantial amount of oil in it. Take that off, and now the pump has to pump longer to fill up the new filter....and while that is happening the crankshaft and cam bearings are not getting any oil, and the cam/rockers are also running without any oil being supplied.

For that first start up.....I believe it is best to leave the old oil and filter in place. I wouldn't do any high rpm riding or take any long trips with it - but I think it is best to leave the old oil in place for the first attempt to get the bike running. (Even leaving the old oil filter in place and just draining the sump is apt to allow the inlet pipe of the pump to drain and get air into the pump).

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by Doug B on 04/27/16 at 06:00:06

Thanks for the responses. It gives me more ideas to follow, or at least consider. My general way of thinking(oil) throughout the years has been more in line with Dave's. Get the engine running, and warm, then drain the oil(along with crud). I say that knowing the history of the engine : clean circulatory system - fully-synthetic - barely ran after last oil change - "only" two years...etc Long ago(25-plus years) I was in the old car/engine business. I discovered that most people neglect their vehicles - doing little in the way of maintenance. I've torn down several hundred engines in my life(none in the past 25 years), and the lack of maintenance(specifically the lifeblood) was astonishing. At the old engine shop I had to "pound apart" over 1/2 of our rebuilds. By that I mean using a mallet and small piece of metal on the underside of the piston just to remove the piston/rod assembly. This was, of course, after removing connecting rod caps(and marking the caps with a punch). Engines with proper oil maintenance would easily pull out - sometimes fall apart. Also, I realize that opinions on the type of oil to use can vary, and that some may think I'm wasting money on Amsoil. However, JOG2 - are you suggesting that standard Rotella provides better cam(and related parts) protection than fully-synthetic Amsoil ? Please continue giving me more to think about members.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by Doug B on 04/27/16 at 06:22:03

Also - I know the oil war(opinions) can be like the musclecar war : Ford vs Chevy(although I'm a Mopar guy). Many of us stick with a brand, and I've been using Amsoil for a long time. Dave you stated something about putting a shot of oil in the spark plug hole. I had already planned for that, but didn't even consider removing the inspection cover to give the valve train some oil. Thanks - I now have that on my list. I'll also check up on your STA-BIL fogging method.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by Dave on 04/27/16 at 06:32:45

I started using this fogging oil a few years ago....it is a cool product. It goes into the cylinder through the spark plug hole, and the directions tell you how many seconds to hold the button down and spray....and a lot of very light oil goes in. The oil is able to get down along the rings and piston skirt. It is only about $ 6 a can, and you can buy it at most auto stores, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. I have started adding it to engines that I know will be in storage for a while - and also before trying to start an engine that has been dormant for a while.

The amazing thing is that when you start the engine - it doesn't smoke?

http://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-fogging-oil

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by DesertRat on 04/27/16 at 07:24:55

7C474A5D4C405B5D464E435C2F0 wrote:

Thanks, Dave ... that clears the fog for me ...

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by ohiomoto on 07/26/18 at 10:49:50

6B646D0F0 wrote:

... In early April 2014 as I pulled into my gravelled driveway the front tire washed out, and I was unable to keep it upright. The bike kept running(on it's side), and I rode back to it's parking place. I also took a 20 mile ride a few days later. A couple of days after that when I turned the key - nothing. No lights, no sounds, no anything....

-------------------------------

So the bike ran a few days after the dump and was dead as a doornail a couple of days later. It could be that the battery or a connection was damaged and it wouldn't take or hold a charge.

OR it could be that you turned the key to park instead of off which lead to a dead battery and your bike is not damaged at all.

You should have had the battery tested and/or charged right away like JOG said. It sounds like you never got that far (and everything else in this thread is about oil).

Bikes can take a pretty good beating and keep ticking. I would replace the battery and see what happens. There is a good chance you'll get lights and it will run. If not, then it's on to the next step.

Title: Re: Its Been A While
Post by batman on 07/26/18 at 18:10:24

I'd check the fuses on the right side under the seat, If you don't have a blown fuse chances are there is no electrical problem ,other than a loose connector, If the battery is good /replaced and you still get nothing when you key the bike, I 'd be looking at the large main connector under the tank on the left side of the bike.