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Message started by Blake Farrar on 04/10/16 at 16:21:04

Title: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/10/16 at 16:21:04

So recently i got my ls650 savage. It ran great. Noticed the cam tensioner was loose. fixed it and put it all back together with some new oil today. It hasnt been a week since i last rode it. Went to crank it and it just spins over. I checked my plug, its getting fire. Checked my fuel tank and it pouring gas like it should. I have no idea whats going on. It just wont start. Now i havent charged battery but the plug was getting spark. Should I put it on a trickle charge over night and try again tomorrow or what should i do? Im sick of not riding my bike and its only been a week!!! Thanks in advance, Blake.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 16:36:46

If you pulled the plug and checked spark, you Really didn't prove it is sparking when it's under the load of compression.
A multimeter will be a tool you need.
For now, yes, charge it. It is common for them to spin over but not fire up. Just a little low on voltage and the starter loads the battery down enough to keep the electronic ignition system to fire the plug. When you Pull the plug Out, then it's spinning free.
A second plug is the test.
Pull the wire off , leaving the plug in, hook it up to the second plug, and see if you can get a spark While making compression.

Sadly, even That test can lie. Because it fires on the exhaust stroke..

Knowing the voltage under load and the ignition system limits is a good plan.

No sin in hooking up jumper cables. Knowing How matters.
For now, charge it up.

Talk about
No Help..

Sorry, dude.. I tried.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/10/16 at 16:43:13

Hey man that works for me!!!! Ill charge it up and go from there. I did notice that it didnt seem like a strong spark anyways. So that may be the cause. Thanks!

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Kris01 on 04/10/16 at 21:01:09

Try cranking it while jumped to a known good car battery (car engine OFF!!!). You can remove a few variables this way.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Suzukisavvy on 04/11/16 at 06:45:09

Savages wont start cold on a low battery, though it does turn, it doesnt turn fast enough to start the engine.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/11/16 at 07:22:58

UPDATE: Put it on charger overnight. Woke up to full charge. Tried it and still won't start. Ugghhhhh! Haha. I'm going to test the spark today after class. Maybe it just has a bad plug under compression! *fingers crossed* ps. I can still smell gas after trying to crank it so I figure it's getting gas.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by DesertRat on 04/11/16 at 07:39:40

you checked the plug, right? which means you had to pull/move the tank.

pull the tank and tighten ALL the connectors you can get a hold of ... then re-install the tank and turn key to on position, but do not turn over bike.

Run through all the switches and buttons you have, making sure all signals, horn and flashers are working. Turn off key and then back on, try turning over the bike.

If this doesn't work, more than likely the timing is off, you said you replaced the cam chain tensioner, right? You may have moved the chain when tinkering around with the chain tensioner.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/11/16 at 07:49:30

Dang it I do remember moving the chain so it's probably way out of time. How do I fix that? Gosh I'm dumb

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/16 at 07:56:06

If I twisted the gas, mine would not start. Flood, every time..
Before you go tearing into it, why not shoot some ether at the air intake? The air horn is under the seat.
If you don't have a multimeter, you would be ahead to have one. I don't remember what the minimum voltage is that the ignition system needs to make it spark.
A battery can go from Contender to
Pretender
by being run down, one last time. It can show you good voltage until it's under load. Treacherous and fickle they are.

Title: Did I jump Time?
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/11/16 at 09:14:48

So i had this great idea that while my tensioner was off getting fixed, i decided to spin the chain a couple good rounds (dont ask why, because im not sure why i did haha). Anyways now it gets fire and gas but wont crank. I think its out of time. so first did that jump it out of time when i spun the chain even though it was all connected? Also, if it is out of time how do i fix that? I have looked all over the place and havent found any good information and i dont have a manual :( Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Dave on 04/11/16 at 09:25:11

It is best that you don't start a new thread for the same "Won't Start" issue......that way the member can keep track of how this started and what advice you have been given so far.

If you turned the engine forward....I really don't think the chain will jump time easily. It would be possible to remove the left timing cover, and also the front (exhaust) valve inspection cover. Slowly turn the engine over and watch the exhaust valve lift, and then begin to go down.....if you can see the intake valve behind just begin to open while the exhaust is just stopping the down motion (valve overlap)....that point occurs as the piston reaches the TDC between the exhaust and intake stroke. Look at the timing mark on the left side of the crank/cover.....and see if the marks are close to TDC.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/11/16 at 09:33:26

Got it! my bad for starting another post. But of course the rain started here so its under the cover and i probably cant look at it the rest of the day. I will keep you all updated. Thanks Dave for the advice there.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by verslagen1 on 04/11/16 at 09:42:46

I tried that experiment when I replaced my chain.
Just wrenching it around, it would not jump.
I even pulled the chain off of the sprocket, and it wouldn't do it.
I don't remember now if I still had the rear guide still on though.

So, unless it got stuck and you had to force it, no I don't think it'll jump.

But, just to throw further doubt on your fears, people have changed their chain and got the timing wrong by one tooth and it still ran, just not good.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/11/16 at 09:45:19

Okay cool. Im going to make 1000% sure that my fire is good and fuel is good. Then i will check everything. I need to do my head plug anyways so I should be able to tell what all is happening when i remove the valve cover

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/16 at 12:21:24

Taking a battery in to be tested can be smart
..
Have you checked the water?

Do you know how old it is?

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/21/16 at 11:26:49

Update: Sorry i havent been on here in a while, school finals are priority and they get in the way of the bike. The battery is good, Its a little over a year and holds a perfect charge. So i took it off since i was getting spark and gas. Turns out it was completely out of time, bad. So i took it apart to look at is. I got it all back in time now and have to put it back together. Although, i did find a part that goes to the bike that i have absolutely no idea where it came from. Can somebody please identify it for me? It doesnt look like it does much, but then again neither does half of the stuff on a bike that is very important. So check this out. its super small, rubber cone shaped thing.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by stewmills on 04/21/16 at 12:06:26

Looks sorta like one of the 4 bushings that go into the bottom of the battery box, but that's just a guess and I think those in the battery box might be shaped a little different. I am sure one of the smart folks who have had their bike dismantled to the frame will know and chime in shortly.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by norm92de on 04/21/16 at 12:59:36

Justin?

The bike is air cooled! ;D

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/21/16 at 13:05:21

I wanted to say something about these bikes not having water but i think maybe he was talking about the acid in the battery i wasnt sure lol? and idk the guy removed the stock battery box and just fabbed one up. it doesnt look bad, but i didnt think that the bushings would still be there

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by DesertRat on 04/21/16 at 18:37:00

Blake,

that "extra" part is most likely from the rear gas tank and seat mounts ...

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/21/16 at 19:15:06

I bet that's it!!!! Thanks!!!!

Title: Re: UPDATE!!!!!Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/27/16 at 09:25:47

Update! i got it all back together yesterday and it fired right up no problems. been driving it around town just to see how its doing. I noticed a loud whinning sound coming from engine. turns out i had the belt too tight. loosened it up a little and it hasnt made a noise since. Im in love with how easy it is to work on this bike and even how it looks i love it and thanks for all who helped me locate this problem. Here is a picture of the engine when i put it back on. I also painted it a high heat black too.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by DesertRat on 04/27/16 at 12:06:04

NICE ride Blake ... great job on getting things ironed out ;)

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/16 at 14:27:34

Is there any support for the exhaust toward the rear?

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/27/16 at 14:29:23

Yes if you look closely you can see a chrome bracket toward the back at an angle

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/16 at 14:30:23

Then you're good to go.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/27/16 at 14:33:18

Its been good so far. I noticed that the guy before me put the windshield on, put a new petcock on it, i made my own cam chain tensioner while the main guy is on vacation, its been rejet and got an aftermarket filter. white wall tires, harley exhaust, sissy bar bag, and he added new aftermarket gauges. Got the whole thing for 1000.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/16 at 14:36:36

If you ever find someone here who has been around long enough to be on their third screen name and Still have 30,000 posts who thinks it's water cooled, do not read anything that person writes.
The Topic of my reply was
Battery.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/27/16 at 14:38:17

Hahahahah!

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/16 at 14:40:35

212D2A39392A397A7A784B0 wrote:

You done good... real good.

Feel like describing how you did that tensioner?

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/27/16 at 14:45:31

Yea i wish i had a picture, but i went into the shop, found a small piece of metal that i thought would work good. Drew a template on the piece of metal with a hole that would be around 12mm center to center from the other hole. I used the plasma cutter and grinded it down to the size i wanted, welded it up to the end of the other one, drilled my hole, grinded some more, then put it in. I know i didnt keep it from coming all the way out like the one on here does but it pushed it back in enough so if it does have a chance to come all the way out, we have bigger isssues because that chain would be rubbing itself before it ever came out of the casing.

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/16 at 14:47:23

Awww, Hayull Yeah! You da mayun!

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by Blake Farrar on 04/27/16 at 14:51:11

Thanks man! I am super new at this bike and after my last one slung a rod, im taking all precautions. Ive definately done my research and everything on the bike

Title: Re: Wont Start.....Weird???? HELP
Post by chzeckmate on 04/29/16 at 02:11:23

Great job. When you get ready to tidy up the wiring please take pics.