SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> The Cafe >> Tire change disappointment
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1460257986

Message started by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 20:13:05

Title: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 20:13:05

Tried to put on my Shinko 712 rear this evening. I'll save the details, save to say that I can't get the tire to take air. I assume either me or my dad pinched the tube. This is the second tube I have ruined. The first was the old tube for the front. Blamed it on the old tube.

I have yet successfully mount a motorcycle tire. Some people might shake it off, but not me. I have a minimum wage job, and I'm not even good at that. Wanted to work on bikes maybe, but seems like I am not even worth $7.25 an hour if it takes me several hours just to ruin a tube. How much pain does it take to get good at something? How much pain does it take to get discouraged and quit? My life seems more the latter than the former.

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Is it okay to patch the tube? I don't want to have to wait a week to get another one.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/09/16 at 20:25:01

http://https://i.imgflip.com/smcyr.jpg

IMHO for SAFETY SAKE, DO NOT PATCH IT ...
buy new and live to ride another day ...

Just my 0.00001[ch8373]

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 20:41:30

He took the tube out, and I found that there are at least three holes in the tube. I have a suspicion that I was not the one that made those holes.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by badwolf on 04/09/16 at 20:49:47

I hope you weren't trying to do it with screwdrivers! If you were you got what you were asking for.
Get yourself 2 good 16" tire levers and the job will become MUCH easier. I know when your young your resources are limited, but good tools will last you all your life. I'm 63 and I still use a metric socket set my dad gave me for my 15th birthday. When I read about guys paying a shop $40 to change a m/c tire, I look at my 2 $12 tire irons and just shake my head.

Oh yea, the guys that ride the ISDT can change a tire in 3.5 minutes! Yes THREE AND A HALF MINUTES! In the field, not in a shop. That includes taking the wheel off, and putting it back on. A rolling stop to starting and going again!
THOSE GUYS ARE GOOD!

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by verslagen1 on 04/09/16 at 20:54:31

I have a no-mar tire lever and it makes the job a lot easier.
http://www.nomartirechanger.com/Mount_Demount_Bar_p/tc-mdbar.htm

but this is a new one...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baja-No-Pinch-Motorcycle-Tire-Mounting-Tool-Tire-Changing-Tool-Full-Package-/121944896641?hash=item1c647b7481:g:egIAAOxylpNTUsv0&vxp=mtr

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/baja-no-pinch-tire-tool

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 20:57:43

4 holes.

At least I get to blame him for it. Comforting.

I have a couple tire irons, but one of them was dug out of the ground, rough and rusty. The other one is made for a certain little tire breaking rig.

Dad seemed to be the one using the screwdriver or screwdriver-like prybar the most. At least one or more of the cut marks points to a screwdriver-like tool.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/16 at 21:00:59

Dude, I'm not going to sugar coat anything here.
I'm a pretty good mechanic. I've solved problems in the oilfield. I designed a tool that worked after engineers tried Twice, and failed. I have a shop and Probably better tools for the tire. I actually bought the real tools. Not screwdrivers and crescent wrenches. I got hurt fighting the back tire, but I got it. But I would not even consider it again. The front, okay, not so bad, but the back is horrible.
That is why they have a machine..

I can't SEE the tube. I don't know the difference between the rubber It's made of and the ones I patched, lo those many years ago. Can't AFFORD to do it all once. Sure thing you don't need to be having a flat,because the patch leaked. If it needs patched on the surface that would be on rroad, and it's not too big or a tear, patch it. But think. CLEAN, scuff, CLEAN, but a patch on the sidewall area, naah, I wouldn't. Just the area that would be on the road.. and that's iffy.

What's the minimum wage job you're not good at? I was horrible at Dairy Queen. Old dude, didn't wanna hurt my feelings by firing me. He could see that I was a willing, hard working kid.. I just didn't belong THERE. Not everyone can do every minimum wage job. Just because it's minimum wage doesn't mean that it's for everyone. Maybe you should walk in a little shop, shoot the bull with the owner, and while you're talking, grab a broom, sweep up. That's how I got hired by a blacksmith who was known for working alone.. Didn't last long, but I sure liked it.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/09/16 at 21:09:04

3x Tire Spoons -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjt0k1ptBoc

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by badwolf on 04/09/16 at 21:17:36

A old guy secret = use Armor All all over the bead of the old and new tire, inside and out. It helps it slide over the rim much easier. And talcum powder on the tube and inside of the tire so the tube can shift around easier. Blow it up to pressure, then deflate it, bounce it around LIGHTLY then blow it up for keeps. That helps get rid of folds or stresses tween the tube and tire.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/16 at 21:34:52

1 X $30.00

If you don't ALREADY have at least three, genuine tire tools, don't try again and don't spend money on the tools.
If the tube will patch, safely, and you're CONFIDENT that the patch will be dependable,, do it, and get it installed. If you don't have the tools, and, you didn't say much about HOW you guys went at it..

Patching, done by someone who has done it, I would be good with. I wouldn't want someone I know just started patching my tube. I took the backhoe tire to the tire shop I know to get it finished. I had the patch , and the grinder on my die grinder. I had shaped and worked it quite well. They were impressed.
Then, he started Scraping. I didn't even KNOW that step was Needed. I helped them, we all wrestled with it. Had a great time. And they charged me twenty bucks.
Knowing when to just Pay someone has been hard to learn.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 21:37:52

Thanks for what you said (I can't find the proper words tonight ;D).

My Dad used to be pretty good mechanic as well. His work was in the the coal mines. He had to deal with a lot of dangerous electricity. He had to take some training from time to time. He doesn't even have a high school diploma, and even he out-designed an engineer once. ;D Speaks a lot for engineers, huh. ;D (Not demeaning your own accomplishments, by the way ;).)

For as much as I fought with that rear tire, you suggest that I put up a pretty good fight? My biggest problem was that I kept getting dirt in there. How many here wouldn't cuss if every time he got the tire two-third's on only to see a little pebble or pinch of dirt fall in the tire? You know what that means.... Back off the bead; take out the tube; make sure everything's clean; put it back.... Fight some more... >:(

After a couple times, I got smart, and brought it inside. Then someone else got a hold of it. ::) I insisted that I get it clean and prepped. Eventually, he helped me mount it, and it went on pretty easily--- too easily--- it was jinxed.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 21:42:30

4341524C525048414952200 wrote:

I used some of my Mom's powder (I assume it is largely talc/cornstarch.) for the tube/body of the tire. I also used a spray bottle of Ajax dishsoap mixed with water for the beads.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/16 at 21:52:58

I'm getting frustrated.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 22:05:11

Whaaaa!!! :o

Frustrated???

Sympathizing? Or does something in this thread bother you? ;D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/09/16 at 22:06:51

I'm guessing the former?

Anyway, the shops may charge too much since it's an Internet tire.

I assume it's best to get some of the wide spoons similar to those Motion-Pro spoons?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Serowbot on 04/09/16 at 22:50:04

I do a lot of work myself... on my house, car, bikes, guitars, amps, computers...
...but I pay for tire installs...
It's possible to DIY tires... and I used to do it for years on my dirt bikes...
But the new tubeless tires are just more than I want to wrestle...
Sometimes spending $20 or $30 saves $50 or $60... and a lot of BSaT's...

That''s Blood, Sweat, and Tears... ;D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by gizzo on 04/10/16 at 01:04:59

I can usually whack a motorcycle tyre onto the rim with a rubber mallet. Saves any risk of pinching the tube. Like they said, use lube of some sort. Old brake fluid is my go to. I'd be patching the tube. Nothing wrong with that. In the end, cruiser tyres can be a real biatch and some of them really can't be done without a tyre fitting machine. They're much more difficult than a dirt bike. So, don't feel too bad it kicked your ass. Better luck next time. get some nice tyre levers, a rubber mallet and have another go. maybe leave the tube out for a trial run?
When I'm getting new tyres these days, I usually take the wheel down the shop and have them do it. It's easier that way.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 08:49:59

Dad said there were four holes. That means four patches. Is it worth the risk and effort to play with so many patches, especially when I need to buy some good tire spoons anyway?

Should I experience a flat tire on the road? Interesting experience, I am sure. How many here have had a flat/blowout on the road and wrecked?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Art Webb on 04/10/16 at 08:51:12

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 09:07:26

I guess I should buy some round, wide lip spoons especially suited to bike tires with tubes
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44698/i/bikemaster-tire-iron-spoon

These seem to be a good deal for just holding the tire in place, but not everybody likes them for leverage as they are short. Otherwise, they are great. There is a version of these with a handle for a dollar more. http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44706/i/bikemaster-steel-tire-iron-with-handleThey might be a bit longer and more comfortable. I wonder if that's worth it. The cheaper one might be more durable. :-/

Do you think I could do the rear tire with a bunch of short spoons? I reckon it is recommended to have three. Should I get two short ones and one long one? Two or three long ones?

If i need something to hold the tire, I recall using the blunt end of a bent crescent wrench yesterday. I think Dad came up with that one. At least that one didn't pinch the tube.

Here's the long tire spoon I'm talking about.
http://www.bikebandit.com/manuals-tools/motorcycle-tools/motorcycle-tire-repair/bikemaster-heavy-duty-tire-iron

A lot of people seem to like that tire spoon. It seems like Bikemaster is an el-cheapo brand, but maybe the make some alright stuff? Anybody bought that brand before?

Anybody bought their inner tubes? I'm not too confident of their reviews. Mostly okay, but some make me wonder. They do have a size that fits both 130/90-15 and 140/90-15. That's not very easy to find.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 09:23:30

Have you even read my posts?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/10/16 at 09:49:15

dude ... seriously ... STOP ... SLOW THE F#cK DOWN

WATCH ALL THE VIDEOS POSTED IN THIS THREAD

you can get a set of 3 spoons for less than $30 US on AMAZON ...

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 09:59:03

I don't know what replies he reads, but it doesn't look like he's reading mine.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/10/16 at 10:25:59

not sure he's "understanding" any of the posts ...

not even sure he understands the value of all the knowledge being presented here ... :-?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 10:27:06

Whoa!

Hold on a minute....

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/10/16 at 10:27:25

7365726F77626F74000 wrote:

I do a lot of work myself... on my house, car, bikes, guitars, amps, computers...
...but I pay for tire installs...
It's possible to DIY tires... and I used to do it for years on my dirt bikes...
But the new tubeless tires are just more than I want to wrestle...
Sometimes spending $20 or $30 saves $50 or $60... and a lot of BSaT's...

That''s Blood, Sweat, and Tears... ;D

at this juncture ... BEST ADVICE EVER ...

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 10:47:58

Desert Rat, the link you gave me is just a video from Motorcycle Superstore on how to change a dirtbike tire using Motion Pro spoons. The ones I mentioned are like those, but cheaper. I don't know which 3 pack you're talking about. I might have seen it. I was looking for the wide, round spoon shaped ones that aren't supposed to pinch the tube.

Is this what you're talking about? http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44563/i/bikemaster-tire-iron-3-pc-set

Justin, you were suggesting that I patch the tire if it's ideal and have the tire professionally mounted no matter what? I think I am understanding better now. :-/

As much as I've already fought with that tire, depending on how quickly and easily I can get a good tube and hire it to be mounted compared to how quickly and easily I can get the tools and do it myself, I'm not sure if it's worth paying someone to do it. I had the price quoted to me before, and I think one place wanted $50 to have an Internet tire installed. I don't know what they want just for simply mounting the tire on the prepared rim. I'll have to ask. Still, it means I am defeated. All that fighting just to lose? As much as we've already fought with it, it might not take long for me to get it done. Besides, I've got both of my Dad's tires sitting in the truck, waiting to be installed. Albeit, they are for cast rims, which means they're tubeless. They might be a little easier. I'll probably need rim protectors, though, since they're alloy. (I just thought of it.)

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 10:58:43

What kind of tire irons do you guys recommend? The 3 pack is nice and cheap, but I'm tempted to go with the more expensive wide-spoon-shaped design. Rim protectors??? Other tools???

How much do shops usually charge to mount an Internet tire on a clean rim?

I've failed so far on both my tires, front and rear. Hiring it done will only make my failure complete, especially if we hire Dad's tires done. I'm tempted to wait, get the tools, and do it myself for the sake of it.

In fact, the thought has crossed my mind to get more than one tube.

Just imagine: Buy three tubes... pinch one... yank it out, say something angry, throw it across the yard wildly, put in another.... pinch it... rinse...repeat....

Crazy, huh? ::) The things frustration will do to ya... ::)

A spare would be a good precaution, though. ;)

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 11:26:08

You asked for advice. Good luck.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 11:40:34

Justin, you mentioned about sidewall vs bottom patching. What about the top (center) of the tube (near the rim)? These holes seem to be against the rim or upper sidewall at most. Dad patched 4 holes with 3 patches. They are all in one area of the tube. He suggested that I use the patched tube if I am determined to do it myself. I am not extremely confident in his patch job. :-/

My Dad is trying to get me to have it mounted at the shop. He still hasn't quite convinced me. :-/

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 12:03:09

He suggested that I use the patched tube if I am determined to do it myself. I am not extremely confident in his patch job. Undecided

He is obviously not confident in you not wrecking a new tube.

My Dad is trying to get me to have it mounted at the shop. He still hasn't quite convinced me. Undecided

So, you're getting your butt kicked, short of money, and, rather than take the advice of people who Have the tools, you're gonna spend money on tools instead of just paying for it being mounted.

Do whatever. You're very frustrating to try to help.
Once people decide it's a waste of time to reply, then what?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 12:40:03

Then what?

.....

How about something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spoon-Motorcycle-Tire-Iron-Changing-Rim-Protector-Tool-Combo-New-Lever-Three-Pcs-/351398277812?hash=item51d0f832b4:g:yQkAAOSwg3FUqBEp&item=351398277812&vxp=mtr

I know... I've got a hard head. Maybe I ought to use that to change my tire. Or maybe it's too big and dull. ;D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by MMRanch on 04/10/16 at 12:57:30

I have tried to patch motorcycle tubes unsuccessfully , I can patch car , tractors , bicycles , lawnmowers , etc. but never successfully on a motorcycle tire. I have put tire slime in and maybe prevented leaks --- Don't know --- haven't had a flat since I started using slime ?

All motorcycles should be mag wheels ! ;)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spoon-Motorcycle-Tire-Iron-Changing-Rim-Protector-Tool-Combo-New-Lever-Three-Pcs-/351398277812?hash=item51d0f832b4:g:yQkAAOSwg3FUqBEp&item=351398277812&vxp=mtr

That is like the set I have .

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by KennyG on 04/10/16 at 13:02:53

MM,

I agree about the Mag Wheels.

Please define what "Slime" is.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/10/16 at 13:15:28

SLIME -
http://www.vimoto.cl/images/sellador.jpg
http://https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fKlS7I-gwW4/hqdefault.jpg
http://https://electricbikereview.com/image/slime-tire-puncture-test/
http://https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aYIp2IC4BaY/hqdefault.jpg
http://brandscycle.com/merchant/278/images/large/smarttube_cutaway.jpeg
http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6456&d=1341521006

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by badwolf on 04/10/16 at 13:35:40

Those 11" irons are better than screwdrivers. But as long as you don't have to carry them, longer is better.
Here is the same thing $5 cheaper

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tire-Lever-Tool-Spoon-Three-Pcs-Motorcycle-Bike-Tire-Change-Kit-with-Case/271868340203?rt=nc&_soffid=200&_soffType=SaleAndClearence&_trksid=p5731.m3795

I have 2 of these that work very well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Three-15-inch-Curve-MOTORCYCLE-TIRE-IRON-LEVER-CHANGING-TOOL-3-Spoon-/111958466901?hash=item1a113ea155:g:GMAAAOSwAYtWIulH&item=111958466901&vxp=mtr

Use a piece of split rubber water auto hose to protect cast rims.

I have changed a 16" pickup tire with them, not recommended, but in a pinch....

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by MMRanch on 04/10/16 at 13:36:54

Yeap !

That would be the same stuff !

It works on Tractors too , and is really good if ya bushog Locus trees and such . ;)

I buy it by the Gal. and put it in all the farm equipment.

Co-op has it too , in 5 gal buckets and will put it no for ya for a few bucks an ounce .

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by KennyG on 04/10/16 at 13:52:32

MM,

I found Slime on Amazon.

How do you know how much to put in a motorcycle tire?

If I use Slime can I reuse the inner tube when I change tires the next time?

Kenny G

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by engineer on 04/10/16 at 14:45:03

The best tip I can offer for mounting a new tire is to do it on a warm sunny day. Place the new tire outside in the direct sun for a half hour or so prior to mounting. If you have an asphalt drive that's the best place to put it. The job is much easier when the tire is good and warm.

I use the technique shown in the video that Desert Rat posted and like the guy in the video I prefer to work on the floor on a big sheet of cardboard. Three spoons or two spoons and one longer iron work best. Dish soap with a little water makes a good lube as do the commercial products for tires.

Rubberized hand grips on tire irons are not necessary and get in the way if like to tuck the iron under the disc to hold it in place. Also, a thinner spoon does makes the job a little easier but the cheaper spoons use cheaper steel and have to make the spoons thicker in order to maintain sufficient strength.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by gizzo on 04/10/16 at 14:57:15

My last word in this topic is to not f... about with cheap tools. If the $5 spoon lets go while your leaning on it, you can get hurt. Like they say, the disappointment of poor quality lasts long after the excitement on getting a bargain has faded. Or, buy cheap, buy twice. I'm using the same pair of industrial quality levers for many years. Same ones I use to do car, bike, 4x4, split rims and all. God speed, cheapy.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by badwolf on 04/10/16 at 15:16:02

gizzo, I thought I was the only one still around that remembers changing tires on split rims. My dad taught me on 9.00 & 10.00 x20 truck tires for his cattle trucks. I had to learn to back up a semi at 14 to fuel up the tanks on both sides. A family friend was killed at the local lumber mill changing a split rim on a skidder. They were damm dangerous, but all we had till the drop center truck rims came around in the late 70's.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by gizzo on 04/10/16 at 15:43:18

Yeah, I was taught to take safety measures with them, for sure. Never had one come off, but heard the stories. I'd rather do a split rim than a 1 piece rim in the bush. So easy. It's a dying art.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 16:13:20

They make clip on air chucks. I air up the rear tires on the backhoe from about forty feet away. I have a regulator, plug in the hose, put the air chuck in, clip it on, walk over, open the valve.
I close it and wait a few seconds before checking the pressure.
A tire that gives up, while being aired up? Worse than cigarettes.

Leaning over a split rim and airing it up is like Russian roulette.
Somewhat better odds. And there is a degree of skill, other than just luck.. A properly cleaned and carefully assembled split rim will be okay. Hard to know when a revolver is gonna go bang.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/10/16 at 16:35:52

US Army, 80-90's, Germany, on duty in the motor pool ...

split rim deuce and a half, female soldier didn't have the tire in the cage when airing it up, bent over the tire when the ring let loose ...

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 20:18:18

I forgot to post this reply... I need to make up my mind soon about ordering tools and getting a tube or something....

Any comments????

Fortunately, I already have something suitable for leverage. I just so happens that Dad used the screwdriver. That's not saying that I'm not short on tire tools. I could use some. I'm thinking of takings some steel bar laying around here and fashion some. Cheaper, and it might get the job done as well as some of the cheaper tools on the fleabay. I'll think about it. Gizzo suggests that cheap tools aren't worth it. I guess it depends. I'll think about it.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by gizzo on 04/10/16 at 20:51:25

On a trail ride one day with some mates. One of the guys got a flat. Prying away with his cheapo tyre levers, the tip of the lever snapped off, sending the lever and his fist into his own face, knocking 2 teeth out. Your call and do what you like. Right tool for the right job I say (I realise I said I wouldn't get involved anymore but here I am).
Couple of topical videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GwrijgO8ns#t=191.461
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVViJZ640yM

gizzo out.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by runwyrlph on 04/11/16 at 19:23:13

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I'm in favor of DIY tire changes, I think with practice most people can do it

You can't really expect to do it with a screwdriver.

I got a fairly cheap set of 3 tire irons (I guess $15-$20). They seem to do the job.
e.g. http://www.bikebandit.com/manuals-tools/motorcycle-tools/motorcycle-tire-repair/bikemaster-3-piece-tire-iron-set?gclid=CIjDtLSDiMwCFcYkhgodmyMGrA

(These might be the ones I got, if not something similar.)

I have changed all my own tires since I got the bike in 07. That was my first tire change other than bicycle.

+1 on a big piece of corrugated cardboard under you
+1 on dish soap for lube

I feel pretty ok about patching a tube.

I usually pinched holes in them and had to re-do for the first couple changes. If I had a new tube, I'd use it, but if not I'd patch.

I think I put 3 patches on one tube; I KNOW i've had 2 patches on a tube. Never had a problem.

I follow the directions on the patch kit, after it sets, pump it up pretty fat and check for leaks with soapy water; it'll bubble up if there's a leak - you can't miss it.

If you don't check your tire pressure regularly, at least do so for a few days after changing.

I line the valve stem up with the dot on the tire, seems to work ok. If it's unbalanced, it's not enough I can tell.

(I'm going to have to look into that rubber mallet method mentioned above, I know nothing about that...)

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by runwyrlph on 04/11/16 at 19:24:24

:)geez, I go away for the winter, and they put a kitten where my nice gadsden flag was???

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by gizzo on 04/11/16 at 20:03:03

Here's an old boy doing it. He did it really well. It's not always that easy. But you will never pinch a tube that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP1su9riLkc

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/11/16 at 21:45:11

Well, guys, I bought some tools and a tube from Motorcycle Superstore early today (or yesterday, depending on your time and interpretation of "day")

I bought a 3 pack of cheap Bike Master levers, another IRC tube, a 60 pack of 5 gram stick on weights, 2 pair of cheap rim protectors, valve core tool, and a spoke wrench to have laying around just in case. Keep in mind that some of this stuff is also to change my Dad's tires. They are tubeless alloy rims. I reckon he is paying for it, for reasons y'all can rather easily guess. ;D

I've been reading that alloy rims don't like soapy water for lube, and rubber doesn't like petroleum products. Or was it just oil? Do I need to buy bead lube?

Is 5 gram the best size, or does anyone prefer the little 2.5 gram ones?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/11/16 at 21:47:29

My tire irons:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44563/i/bikemaster-tire-iron-3-pc-set

I don't think they are the ones in the first picture. Look at the others.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by MMRanch on 04/11/16 at 22:01:49

Kenny

I'm kinda embarrassed to admit it :-[

but some times ya just have to read the instructions .

I always put a new tube in when I get a new tire - I suspect the tube/tire surfaces rub each other somewhat as the tire flexes . Well I don't use my rear brake for slowing down and that means rear tires last a long, long time. The Michelin commander II that I just replaced had about 24,000 miles on it. That is a long time for the tube/tire connection to be rubbing on each other . So you see I don't mind getting a new tube. This last time I kinda "Screwed-up" and got a strait valve tube :P.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/11/16 at 22:06:48

Take a look at this.

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/blogs/richard/an-easy-way-to-ruin-your-tires.aspx

We've got an old bottle of Armor All. Maybe that will do the trick. :)

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/11/16 at 22:26:18

seriously? back several pages, a poster recommended using armor all already ... ::)

STOP being a stubborn teen and follow the advice that we old a$$ geezers have provided FREE of charge ... and git ur a$$ to work changing the tires ...

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/11/16 at 22:41:49

373C3135243A3123366660540 wrote:

[quote author=4341524C525048414952200 link=1460257986/0#8 date=1460261856]A old guy secret = use Armor All all over the bead of the old and new tire, inside and out. It helps it slide over the rim much easier. And talcum powder on the tube and inside of the tire so the tube can shift around easier. Blow it up to pressure, then deflate it, bounce it around LIGHTLY then blow it up for keeps. That helps get rid of folds or stresses tween the tube and tire.

I used some of my Mom's powder (I assume it is largely talc/cornstarch.) for the tube/body of the tire. I also used a spray bottle of Ajax dishsoap mixed with water for the beads.
[/quote]

;D Oops! ::) :-[

Good grief, I even replied to his post. ;D

Yeah, I'm not a very good listener, and I'm stubborn. My annoying ways of communicating appear to extend to both written and spoken communication.

By the way, I'm not technically a teen, but maybe if everyone thinks I'm young, that's a sign I'll stay young. ;D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/11/16 at 22:45:43

I think I know what happened. I used something else as a lube, and let the Armor-All slip my mind a bit. Now that I know it has a special significance, I'll remember it.

Sometimes the old fellas will give you a little tip, but it'll pass by because you don't fully understand and appreciate it's significance.

Now don't we all do that sometimes? Perhaps I'm just more vulnerable to it. ::)

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Art Webb on 04/12/16 at 06:31:03

7B707D7968767D6F7A2A2C180 wrote:

Sometimes the old fellas will give you a little tip, but it'll pass by because you don't fully understand and appreciate it's significance.

Now don't we all do that sometimes? Perhaps I'm just more vulnerable to it. ::)

You get past that eventually
the older I get the smarter my Dad was
I figure by the time I reach his age at death I might be almost as smart as he was

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/12/16 at 10:43:49

But... If something like that had been told to you, (amongst all the other alternatives) would you have understood its importance if it had not been explained to you.

If someone tells you to eat candy, and then another tells you to eat broccoli, and you don't immediately understand that broccoli is much better for you than candy, and candy is easier to get than broccoli, aren't you gonna forget about broccoli and eat candy? :-?

Or are you gonna remember about broccoli even though you eat the candy? :-? Is that what you're saying?

You're still not going to understand why you should eat broccoli and not candy. :-?::)

...Unless you happen to figure it out. :-?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/12/16 at 12:11:30

What did you use?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/12/16 at 16:46:30

Dish soap and water.

I'll probably use armor all for Dad's rims, though. Might just try it for mine as well.

Sounds like you're not reading my posts now. Ha... Ha... :P

:D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/12/16 at 17:13:50

When the guys did the backhoe tire they reached into what looked like grease, but it is actually a soap.
Might stop by and see if the guys at a tire shop would let you have some. Not just any tire shop,but someone who handles big truck tires and tractor tires. The Cagerville Tire Store ain't gonna have it.
If you're gonna use dish soap, don't use water, and rubbing some ivory soap on, like lubricating a drawer, would be a start.
You could mash up the soap and make mush with water. Just enough water to make it so it squeezes out of your hand like mud. So it stays where you put it.
Probably best to not get much inside.
Better still, have it done.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/12/16 at 17:22:01

2F3036312C2B1A2A1A22303C77450 wrote:

Thanks for the advice, Justin. I might go to town and get some at an auto shop I have in mind to pick up some acetone anyway for that stuck exhaust bolt.

The armor all sounds like a good idea, though. Might try that if nothing else.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Art Webb on 04/13/16 at 08:50:37

62696460716F6476633335010 wrote:

I'm starting to understand
You are afflicted with Must Have The Last Worditis ;D
my post didn't really require a rebuttal, as you learn, you'll look back and laugh about this stuff
and yes, some thing you have to learn for yourself
and i still like Snickers better than broccoli :P
(Maybe I have MHTLWitis, too ;D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 18:17:26

last word

;D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/13/16 at 22:23:29

Nope..

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Art Webb on 04/14/16 at 07:05:48

lol

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 09:58:25

I like broccoli. :D

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by LANCER on 04/14/16 at 11:33:40

I was cruising through a new Harbor Freight store yesterday in Muskogee OK, and what did I find ?
I'm glad you asked.
I found a manual tire changer; the kind the real mech's used at the shop when you used to get a new tire.
And then what did I see ?
I'm glad you asked. :)
I found a motorcycle tire changing attachment for the aforementioned tire changer.
How much did it cost you asked ?
I'm glad you asked. ;D
The set cost about $85.
Oh yea. ;) 8-)

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/14/16 at 11:46:51

Lancer you lucky SOB ... great find ...

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 18:32:40

Okay, well, I got the tire mounted and have been trying to balance it.

Those cheap tire irons where quite helpful and RU-Glyde probably helped too. The hardest thing was getting the valve up in the rim. I didn't want to take the tube outside and get it dirty and go through the trouble of pumping it up, so I put some air in the tube in order to keep its shape and prevent pinching in the most primitive dumbfounding way one can thing of:

I put my lips on it with the core removed and blew it up like a balloon. ;D :o :P

Now Mom and Dad wanted to interfere. They threw a fit about this. They didn't think I should pump it up before I got it into the tire. (Technically, it might have been better to blow it up after getting the tube in the tire but... anyway....). Dad tried to let the air out. I had to blow it back in. ::) Then, as I worked with it, I had to let some of it out. ::) Not easy to get the valve in with air in it.

Dad tried to help me mount the tire. He started helping.... And I ran him off. (well, to his recliner a few feet away ;D) >:( When it comes to brain surgery, I'd rather do it myself. ...and I did.

I pumped it up and removed the core a couple times. I think it's properly seated. I hope. The last time, I got it a few pounds over 40 psi. I think that's enough. Then I pumped it up to 37-38 psi. I just checked it, and it's closer to 36. I hope it's not leaking. :-/ I hope it's just temp changes and air loss from using the gauge.

Before working on the tire, I worked on getting that sagging fender tightened up. I used some of that acetone-ATF mix that JOG recommended. One of the bolts was broken, so I used channellocks and had to drill it a bit to get it loose. Put new bolts in and found some washers. Works great.

I put the wheel on the bike partially (without the brake assembly) in order to balance the tire. I am guessing the old tire used more than an ounce, and I've already put up around 1-3/4 ounces (50 grams). It's still not quite there yet, so I'll probably have to do upwards of 2 ounces. I hope that doesn't point to a problem. I am using cheap 5 gram iron stick on weights. They are bulky, so I have to cut them apart and set them sideways on the rim. I weight both sides of the rim. I wipe the rim with acetone.

I didn't get the red dot aligned with the valve. I tried to initially, but by the time I got the tire mounted, it moved a bit. That probably won't help the balance, but I don't think it would cause this much trouble.

I am worried about fender clearance, as it's pretty tight on the brake side. I might have trouble. :( :-/

Any comments?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 19:13:38

I'm a little worried about the amount of weight I'm having to use and whether it has something to do with the spokes. I mentioned it here. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1460275137/15#15.

When I took the wheel off, I lost track of what went where, but I think I've got everything straightened out. I looked at the book, and I noticed that there is a spacer that goes between the wheel bearings. I am unclear as to whether it's there or not. I'm pretty sure that it was the PO's fault (or his mechanic) if there was something missing. Perhaps it's there, and I just didn't notice it because I never removed any of the wheel bearings. From looking at the book and remembering how I removed the axle, I think the PO (or mechanic) put in the axle backwards. I doubt that matters very much. I think the big spacer goes on the pulley side, right?

Any comments on the contents of these two posts? I'd like to know if there's something I should worry about. :-/ I'm slightly concerned. :-/

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Kris01 on 04/14/16 at 19:15:44

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199986392

There's a pic of the axle for future reference. It DOES make a difference!

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 19:27:26

Thanks. I'll see to it. I downloaded it months ago while running Windows, and right after that I had trouble with a supposed virus. From what I gather, the problem was supposed to be some other file that was there for a long time, but the correlation caused me to stay away from the companion CD. :-/

That problem (Oldfeller would probably say it's just Microsoft screwing with me.) is the very reason I haven't touched my Windows partition in months.

I guess I'm just afraid of the monster under the bed. ;D
Maybe I can run one of those online scans on it.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Kris01 on 04/14/16 at 19:30:11

Hmmm, it's just jpegs! :-/

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/16 at 20:09:59

Organization during disassembly can't be over emphasized.
I make drawings, or number thing, maybe take the axle and put parts on it in the proper order. I have red, black and silver sharpies, masking tape , paper, baggies,
Fixing stuff is hard enough, no need to leave myself a head scratcher..too.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 20:50:42

605942581B1A2B0 wrote:

Hmmm, it's just jpegs! :-/

I installed an antivirus and scanned it. So far, it looks clean.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/15/16 at 04:26:28

I'm balancing the tire with the pulley on. Is that right?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by stewmills on 04/15/16 at 14:29:26

When I take mine to the dealer, I do not take my pulley with it. So for me, mine is balanced sans pulley.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/15/16 at 15:49:32

Oh, well, I balanced mine with the pulley. It makes sense to do so since it is part of the rotating assembly and will therefore affect balance. Hmmm... I wonder if I couldn't have used fewer weights by rotating the pulley and using it's natural imbalances to my advantage. Oh, well... too late now.

I got the tire on and went for a ride. :)

So far, I am satisfied with the setup. The change in gearing from the 140/90 seems quite significant compared to that old 140/80 I took off. Now the engine bears down and takes it like a man :D instead of just winding up. There may indeed be a loss of acceleration. I guess the tradeoff is alright. In fifth gear, I seem to run out of throttle a little sooner at highway speeds. Of course, the speedo is behaving differently, so... :-? Clutch slipping under acceleration in 2nd seems more likely. Pulling out going uphill is more challenging, but then, they dumped fresh gravel lately, so maybe it's just the road's fault the thing tried to slide out from under me.

It took 70 grams, which is well over 2 ounces. That's quite a bit. It was still slightly off balance, but I reckon it's good enough. If I hadn't started truing the wheel partway into the balancing job, and if I had been better and more precise at hand balancing, I probably could have used a little less weight. I got the rear wheel acceptably true and pretty well balanced. That new $10 spoke wrench got some use today. ;) A good deal. :)

Stew, I just got to use the shim you sent me. I don't think it took out all the pulley misalignment, but I'd like to thank you. :) We'll see how much it helps when I get the alignment fine tuned. I got it roughly. I can't say it's perfect yet.

I think I may know what some of the problem with the front wheel is. It's a little out of balance and out of true, both off center and laterally. I think I managed to get the rear wheel a little more true than the front. (It was probably a little better anyway. Who knows.)

So far the new tire is more weebly than the other one. I take it that has to do with it's roundness as opposed to being flat. :D On the gravel, it felt a little funny. It seems that, with a round tire, the loose gravel levers the bike around, leaning and pushing the bike to and fro, affecting steering. On the other hand, the road surface is a little different.

On asphalt, it feels pretty good. On dirt, the ride is pretty good, perhaps a little better than the old one for the psi. After scrubbing them some, the tire feels rather soft and sticky. The old one could get sticky somewhat after running it awhile, but it was still hard. Big difference to the feel of the hands. the tire also flexes to the hand a bit. That old Metzler was hard as rock. It had a rough ride too. It was pretty good if you had less than 35 pounds in it, but a few pounds more, and it turns into a piece of concrete. :P

I can say that it has already made a funny wear pattern on one side. I only noticed it after the last leg of my test run. Maybe it had something to do with spinning gravel. :-/ Hard to describe it... cobwebs??? Anyone have a clue what I'm trying to describe? I hope I don't wear it out before 3k miles. :-/ Maybe I should have broken it in easier. Or maybe I'm worrying about nothing. That soft rubber sure is fragile. :-/

For my uses, I'm not sure I'll need much taller gearing. There's a difference between a 150 lb flatlander and a 200+lb hillclimber. I still like to be able to get up and go. I might try a little higher gearing with the chain drive, but I can't say I need it. This setup gives a good balance.

So far I don't have any rubbing problems, although it's pretty tight in there. The bike looks more like a bike now than a chopper with its stance higher. I like being able to lean without as much risk of scraping things. Scraping things causes me to panic.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/15/16 at 17:35:25

I took another test run through some tight twisties, and I have to say that I'm even more confident of the gearing change than I was before. 2nd gear is now great for those hairpin turns, and third is great too for the twisties. Interestingly, gearing up may have helped these hp/torque intensive things. Acceleration is great too. Things are smooth. Has a nice smooth feel. I wouldn't count out the chain conversion yet.

I can say one thing. It's either or both the tire and that loose gravel that's become troublesome. I'm having a time keeping the bike upright in that stuff. Downshifted from third to second in a curve (maybe too far into the curve :-/ A no-no, yes?), and I felt my rear end sink like she was trying to go down. Wasn't jerky with the clutch. I may do well to let a couple psi out of that new tire.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/16/16 at 08:25:53

Downshifting, braking, both use traction. The tire gives you a budget. Spend it however you like. BUT, if the traction is being spent on cornering forces and you decide to spend some more traction by slowing down or accelerating, and you exceed the tires abilities to grab, down you go.
The video someone posted about a week ago was all about this. I remember what it said, why, etc, but the title escapes me.
The cornering bible? Anyway, gently accelerating through a corner keeps the bikes suspension working for you. The gear should be chosen, braking accomplished if not before the curve, at least very early in.
I should watch that video again.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/16/16 at 09:07:54

Twist of the Wrist Part 2

That's it, right?

Good stuff.

Yeah, that loose gravel is tricky. It's pretty bad stuff. Hard pack is awesome, but that loose stuff. :-/

Yeah, I know decelerating at that point was a potentially bad move. ::) Maybe it will make a better rider out of me. I met a girl once who had been riding her metric cruiser (bigger than a Savage) for 6 months. She wouldn't take it on the slab, she wouldn't take it on gravel....

Well, gollleeee!!! :P If I didn't take mine through gravel, I wouldn't get out of the house! ;D :P ::).

Newbies... and their attempts at "safety"... ::) Hey, I reckon you're safer on the slab than on the back roads, and that's where I met her. What's worse... Her bike was better for the slab than mine is. What's wrong with these people!?

Hey kids, don't listen to everything the MSF tells you. Seems like they encouraged us to lean lean lean. You know, when the encourage you to "just lean more" (not sure that was exactly it) in response to taking a curve wide or something. Well, what they don't adequately explain is warning you about how tricky it is. Thank You, MSF, for my first lowside crash. ;) :P

Okay, maybe it was partly my fault.... :-/ :-/ :-/ But I don't think they helped the situation much. :-/

Shoot! it took me till after the course to discover countersteering! Now that's kinda interesting. :-? It's like they kinda sorta go over it.... right over my head and out the door. The biggest thing they beat into your head was Slow, Lean, Press, and Roll. I still didn't get the press part. It's like they don't think, "Hey! Lookie here! Steering a bike is so crazy complicated and awesome! It's actually backwards from steering a car! Here's how it works! Isn't it so cool!" Uhh... nope... It didn't seem to go that way. Maybe the class could have been done better. I had the hardest time understanding how to do the track exercises. I'd get confused on what I was supposed to do and the placement of all those little cones are confusing. My major loss in points for the riding exam was crossing the boundary for not knowing where I was going. :-/ I don't remember exactly, but I may have had a perfect score (or a really good one) if I had not done that. I'd have been PISSED if I had actually failed that class over something so dumb! >:(

I think it actually took the Twist of the Wrist video to understand countersteering. I think that class just emphasized the "lean vs turn the bars" idea. Pathetic! That's a recipe for disaster, isn't it?

Those MSF teachers like to brag about never crashing or dropping their bikes. :P However, I keep getting the feeling that one of them confessed to wrecking while he was learning a long time ago. Maybe he didn't. Who knows. Supposedly his major accomplishment was embarrasing himself once after dropping his bike once-- I said once.

After having been in the biking world for a little while, I have been getting the suspicion that people seem to do everything they possibly can to cover up and lie about their history of motorcycle wrecks because they don't want to compromise their big ego. "Hey look at me! I'm a big shot motorcyclist, and I've never wrecked!"

You know... Maybe these big shots ought to have wrecked... Then maybe they'll know what they're talking about. :P Honestly, I'd rather learn from a racer who's wrecked or came near wrecking time and time again and intimately knows how bike physics works than some supposed saftey nazi. The MSF should hire people who ride their bikes for sport, so they know what can go wrong.

My Dad is going to take his class at the Harley dealership. We'll see if they do any better.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/16/16 at 09:28:54

I read in another forum, by the way, that the MSF watered down their classes. Maybe that explains my complaints.

...Or, I'm just dumb as a brick... :-/

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/16/16 at 09:40:21

Got a co-worker that used to ride. Supposedly never dropped his bike or anything. Then, later, he talked about having trouble with a wasp or something and bailing the bike at 30 mph. Supposedly he planted his feet into the ground with dignity at 30 mph. Yeah... right...

Just trying to keep up his ego...

That's a major example of why I suspect bikers have more wrecks, drops, get-offs, and crashes than they are willing to let on.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/16/16 at 10:26:48

whoa now little man ... WATERED DOWN MY A$$ ... I think your talking $#1t now ...

I've been riding on two, 3 and 4 wheels since I was a kid. dirt bikes, ATC's, dune buggies, mud boggin' vehicles, etc. sand dunes, dirt, gravel, cement, asphalt, mud and swamps.

I took the MSF course over 3 days in +100°F Arizona weather. The instructors, husband and wife team, were f#@k!ng drill sergeants. They did not play. EVERYTHING was by the book. We had MULTIPLE people fail the course and crash bikes at speed. Others QUIT after the first day.

... WATERED DOWN MY A$$ ... ::)

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/16/16 at 12:17:32

When did you take the course?

I do remember reading something about that. Don't have a link. The best account I've found so far is this. http://ask.metafilter.com/77759/Stop-touching-that-brake (near the bottom of the page)

Maybe I'm just throwing around excuses. :-/ What do I know? Maybe it's all my fault. :-/ Trying to be honest. :-/

My experience on the course was much different than yours. :-?

But, hey, if you don't want to talk about it, we don't have to. I've caused enough trouble today.

Later tonght I may see if I can find some more accounts of this rumor. We'll see how much there is to it.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointing
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/16/16 at 13:51:45

One curve I played with often over the years I noticed that the exit speed could be higher with less peg dragging by getting further off the bike, leaving It leaned less.
The problem with that is, IF it suddenly Gets Loose, I couldn't drop my body and raise the bikes angle.
FWIW, I did get some dirt riding experience and I was very much crazy on a ten speed. Riding a sidewalk around a pond I saw Two lines on the cement in a corner on the second lap. Conclusion? Drifting the turn... I learned a lot on that bicycle. The taste and feel of asphalt, and what slides feel like and how to recover.
Keeping the body ready to raise the bars by dropping the torso down into the turn IS a possibility. I've done it. It's also possibly the first step in a high side, so,

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Oldfeller on 04/16/16 at 16:25:25

A radical desperation move I saw done once successfully was when the muffler bracket dragging threatened to become a pivot (ie low side) Toymaker yanked UP on the handlebars HARD, literally pivoting the rear tire back down into good engagement with the pavement --- spoiled his line and threw him abruptly over the yellow line, but it was better than going down.

That was a good thing because I was in Al's truck at the time about 15-20 feet off his bumper.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Art Webb on 04/22/16 at 08:27:13

Um, cheap, the MSF course DID teach you countersteering, wtf do you think 'press' means?
you press with the left hand to turn left, pres with the rightn hand to turn right
That's press the bar with your hand
that's 'countersteering'
the MSF doesn't call it that because it confuses people
Apparently you weren't paying attention that day
Probably you were trying to refute the instructors ;D
here it is in writing
http://www.ridingsafety.com/prep/html/tech3.html
capish?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/22/16 at 18:04:42

Yeah.... ::) It just didn't seem to sink into my thick skull. ::)

I guess my point was that they didn't go through some lengthy exposition of the concept like Twist of the Wrist does. :-/ Who would figure out that you steer a motorcycle backwards? There's some pretty cool things to talk about here that they don't seem to talk much about.

Did the MSF explain stuff like Twist of the Wrist does? Did the MSF ever tell you the reason to lean your body and not just the bike? Bad things can happen when you don't lean well.

"[T]he MSF doesn't call it that because it confuses people."

Well, maybe that explains it a little. They don't tell you how it works. They just tell you to do it. Doesn't work for everyone all the time it seems. :-?

Wouldn't students have been more satisfied if they had talked about all this cool stuff instead of bread and water, metaphorically speaking? Might take longer...more for the money.... ;)

Maybe it's just me...

"Probably you were trying to refute the instructors ;D"

Hmmm.... Art... You're catching on to my style. ;D

It would have been useful if I had made a big argument about that... Maybe then I would have paid better attention to it. Hey, maybe the others would have learned something had I squeezed some discussion out of the instructors on countersteering.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/22/16 at 18:20:36

Funny thing... back when my experience was less, I actually tended to pull on the opposite bar. ;D Accomplished the same thing...just backwards to what you're supposed to do. ::) :-?

Now that I know what I'm doing, I tend to consciously press the bar. I probably still do the other though sometimes. :-/

Anybody else do this? Pulling on the left bar to go right and vice versa? Maybe there's an ergonomic reason I sometimes do that. :-?

Hmmm... If I pulled on the bar before, maybe I partly understood countersteering on a very primal level. Maybe I just didn't fully realize what I was doing... :-/ Maybe my memories are getting fuzzy. :-/ Maybe I'm a little confused. :-/ :-? Maybe I'm confused about being confused. ;D Or undecided... :-? ;D

:-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/22/16 at 20:51:22

Here it is! The argument from a few days ago...

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=251&Set=&SearchTerms=buell

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/16 at 06:59:16

Do it however, just be Aware that you do it all the time, even when you think you're running a straight line. Remember that
Ohh I'm not gonna fall again
moment , when you were learning to ride a bicycle?
Cranking the bars left and right, trying to run the bicycle back under your butt? We use input to control the bike, and some of it is very subtle and we just Do it, without thinking. But When you are aware of the technique and Know how it works, then if you get in abind, and seriously need to make the bike Do something, NOW, a quick flick of the bar can hop it from one lane to another. A woman forced me to prove that, at about forty.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by Art Webb on 04/23/16 at 07:16:22

yup, anyone who can ride a bicycle more than 2 feet without falling off already countersteers, just like it said in the cornering bible
actually in motion the bike does this itself, once you learn to relax, we just get in the way of it doing so

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/23/16 at 17:21:10

Anyway...

What do you think of the link I posted above?

Interesting accusations? :-?

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by DesertRat on 04/23/16 at 17:28:57

NOW you're just TROLLING ...

you need Zumba Jesus ...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/726/997/0b6.jpg

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/16 at 18:40:02

575C5155445A5143560600340 wrote:

Anyway...
What do you think of the link I posted above?
Interesting accusations? :-?

If you really believe that article, then MSF couldn't survive another season. waivers don't excuse neglect.

Title: Re: Tire change disappointment
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/16 at 18:55:09

I'm not reading all that.

I've totaled three bikes.
Once, I was wearing a helmet.
Twice, I was dressed casual,very minor scuffing on me.
I got worse on bicycles.
That last one, dressed up and helmet,, and BOY,I needed it..