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Message started by jrobeson18 on 04/05/16 at 16:21:45

Title: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by jrobeson18 on 04/05/16 at 16:21:45
Done some searching cant find anything on my cell phone

So far all I got is out stock charging system puts out about 100 watts of power. Which is used by the lights and charging system.
I'd like to add LED driving lamps to help light the road on my early 4am commute to work. What is the best way to do this, and cheapest. While still keeping the battery charging properly.

I can convert all bulbs to LED.That will only day a max of 3watts each.
Except the headlamp, I have no idea how to open it to change the bulb, if I did anything to the headlamp assy. I like to get a new headlamp thats LED to replace it.

Any ideas?

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Dave on 04/06/16 at 06:21:11
The Tech Section is no the proper place for posting questions....the purpose of that section is proven "How To" threads.

When adding an LED bulb to the headlight, it is important that you buy a bulb that has the proper vertical cut off for the low beam light.  The shields built into the bulb are what keeps you from shining the light into folks eyes when the low beam is in use....without the cut off built into the bulb, your light will be shining too high and will be just like using your high beam.

The same is true when you add the LED or other driving lamps...they don't have any vertical control of the light and they do shine a lot of light at other drivers.  Most of these driving lights don't shine very far down the road and only light up the road immediately in front of the bike.  (I was riding in the Blueridge area at night, and a group of about 6 bikes passed by.....and one of the group had both an LED headlight and a couple of LED driving lamps.....and his lights were blinding bright - not sure how safe you are when you are making it so other folks are blinded when you approach them).

Here is a link to the most recent LED discussion.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1453064396/0

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by jrobeson18 on 04/06/16 at 14:32:25

300B0611000C17110A020F10630 wrote:
The Tech Section is no the proper place for posting questions....the purpose of that section is proven "How To" threads.

When adding an LED bulb to the headlight, it is important that you buy a bulb that has the proper vertical cut off for the low beam light.  The shields built into the bulb are what keeps you from shining the light into folks eyes when the low beam is in use....without the cut off built into the bulb, your light will be shining too high and will be just like using your high beam.

The same is true when you add the LED or other driving lamps...they don't have any vertical control of the light and they do shine a lot of light at other drivers.  Most of these driving lights don't shine very far down the road and only light up the road immediately in front of the bike.  (I was riding in the Blueridge area at night, and a group of about 6 bikes passed by.....and one of the group had both an LED headlight and a couple of LED driving lamps.....and his lights were blinding bright - not sure how safe you are when you are making it so other folks are blinded when you approach them).

Here is a link to the most recent LED discussion.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1453064396/0



Okay sorry, I made the correlation of it was a question for rubber side down


But anyways it was a thought. If it involves swapping out all the lights I wont do it.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Dave on 04/07/16 at 03:23:56
It is a math issue.  The bike has approximately 100 Watts of charging power.  The power consumption by the turn signals and brake light can mostly be ignored....as those are only used intermittently.  That leaves the following:

The front running lights and brake light have 1157 bulbs, and they are 8 watts each on the low element.  (3x8=24 watts).

A standard headlight bulb is 55w low beam, 60 watt high beam.  You can get 45/45 bulbs - but the stock headlight on the bike is not all that great and you can use the extra light from the 55/65 bulb.  The headlight therefore is going to be averaged as 60W for using both low/high beam.

The speedometer only has a single small bulb, and it is 3 watt.  The neutral indicator light, turn signal intermittent light, and high beam light are also 3 watt - but are used intermittently.  Lets use 2 watts total for the intermittent use.

The front turn Signals/Brake light uses the bright element of the 1157 bulb, the rear turn signals use the 1156 bulb, and all 5 of these use 21 watts each.  Since they are not on all the time and only used when turning  or braking.....lets use 2 watts total.

The combined total of the above is 24+60+2+2+2 = 90 watts - which leaves 10 watts for charging the battery.  10 watts/12 volts provides 0.8 amps of battery charging capacity.  Most battery manufacturers recommend that slow charging should not exceed 2 amps - so this gives you about half what the maximum charging rate is.

So....in this crude estimate you don't have any extra power to play with, and this is one reason that folks who run errands and make short trips can run their battery down.  Replacing the 8/21 watt 1157 bulbs with LEDs will drop the 8 watt each for the running lights down to about 0.6 watts each....which will reduce the running light usage from 24 watts to 1.8 watts - which will provide you with another 22 watts for installing LED lights for the driving lights.

(Disclaimer:  I don't know that anyone knows for sure the power rating of the charging system on the Savage.....100 watts has been the standard "guess" on the previous threads).  

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by jrobeson18 on 04/07/16 at 05:45:27

102B2631202C37312A222F30430 wrote:
It is a math issue.  The bike has approximately 100 Watts of charging power.  The power consumption by the turn signals and brake light can mostly be ignored....as those are only used intermittently.  That leaves the following:

The front running lights and brake light have 1157 bulbs, and they are 8 watts each on the low element.  (3x8=24 watts).

A standard headlight bulb is 55w low beam, 60 watt high beam.  You can get 45/45 bulbs - but the stock headlight on the bike is not all that great and you can use the extra light from the 55/65 bulb.  The headlight therefore is going to be averaged as 60W for using both low/high beam.

The speedometer only has a single small bulb, and it is 3 watt.  The neutral indicator light, turn signal intermittent light, and high beam light are also 3 watt - but are used intermittently.  Lets use 2 watts total for the intermittent use.

The front turn Signals/Brake light uses the bright element of the 1157 bulb, the rear turn signals use the 1156 bulb, and all 5 of these use 21 watts each.  Since they are not on all the time and only used when turning  or braking.....lets use 2 watts total.

The combined total of the above is 24+60+2+2+2 = 90 watts - which leaves 10 watts for charging the battery.  10 watts/12 volts provides 0.8 amps of battery charging capacity.  Most battery manufacturers recommend that slow charging should not exceed 2 amps - so this gives you about half what the maximum charging rate is.

So....in this crude estimate you don't have any extra power to play with, and this is one reason that folks who run errands and make short trips can run their battery down.  Replacing the 8/21 watt 1157 bulbs with LEDs will drop the 8 watt each for the running lights down to about 0.6 watts each....which will reduce the running light usage from 24 watts to 1.8 watts - which will provide you with another 22 watts for installing LED lights for the driving lights.

(Disclaimer:  I don't know that anyone knows for sure the power rating of the charging system on the Savage.....100 watts has been the standard "guess" on the previous threads).  




oh okay. well I guess I wont be doing this without some serious bulb swaps. Thanks though.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by verslagen1 on 04/07/16 at 07:46:43
Dave, the only thing I see overlooked is power to run the engine.
The Honda group says theirs are 5 or 8 amp... each.
The last thing you want is to short sheet the CDI and coil.
I would throw 10 amps their way and don't poke the bear.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Dave on 04/07/16 at 08:06:10

7A697E7F606D6B69623D0C0 wrote:
Dave, the only thing I see overlooked is power to run the engine.
The Honda group says theirs are 5 or 8 amp... each.
The last thing you want is to short sheet the CDI and coil.
I would throw 10 amps their way and don't poke the bear.


Good point Verslagen.....I forgot about the ignition and safety circuit power draw.

I also hope that somebody/someday will set up a test and confirm what the charging system really is capable of....we might have 120 watts?

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by chzeckmate on 04/07/16 at 10:23:34

1D262B3C2D213A3C272F223D4E0 wrote:
I also hope that somebody/someday will set up a test and confirm what the charging system really is capable of....we might have 120 watts?


I'd wager real money that we have more than that. The charging power is the product of the bikes voltage (V) and peak current (I). So P = V * I.  So, if the bikes alternator has a peak rating of 20 amps @ 14 volts then the peak charging output is (20 * 14) 280 watts.  The Buell Blast, for example, has a charging output rated at 297 watts.  I won't speculate at the real numbers for the S40, but this is definitely something to think about.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Kris01 on 04/07/16 at 19:34:47
From the owners manual:
Headlight 12V, 60/55W
Turn signal - front 12V, 21W/5W; Rear 12V 21W
Brake light/taillight 12V, 21W/5W
License plate light 12V 8W
Speedo light 12V, 3W
Neutral indicator 12V, 3W
HiBeam indicator 12V, 1.7W
Turn signal indicator 12V, 3W

That's close to 150W not including the ignition system.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by KennyG on 04/07/16 at 19:43:58
I am not qualified to comment about this subject, but the one German site that I keep an eye on shows a lot of Savage/S40s with large driving lights along side the headlight, and sidecar setups with an additional full size headlight.

Could one of us, with access to another rider with a spare battery, just temporarily mount a couple of additional headlights on our Savage/S40 and go for a ride and see what happens?

What is the worst that can happen? A dead battery?

I  don't know?

Kenny G

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Kris01 on 04/07/16 at 19:49:33
Got a link, Kenny?

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by KennyG on 04/07/16 at 19:52:48
Kris,

Here is the link:
http://www.savage-distel.de/frame.htm

You will have to flip through a lot of pictures to find what I mentioned. The pics are there somewhere.

Here is one example.

Kenny G

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Kris01 on 04/07/16 at 20:00:15
Thanks!

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by badwolf on 04/07/16 at 20:10:00
I might as well throw some more gas on the fire. I have posted before that I mounted 2 15watt led driving lights on my s40. When I used them along side the stock low beam at night I had no problems. But I only used them on long rides at speed.(full charging power) I have now gone to a 20/40 watt led sealed beam that has WAYYYYYYY more lighting capability than any h4 bulb I have tried, even a 90/100 watt. If you guys want to have more visibility at night you should go with a led sealed beam. The difference is huge. The bulbs labeled ''daymaker'' really are. Talk to the Harley guys that have them and look at how they light-up the road and the price will be forgotten once you start riding with one.

See the last page of the link Dave mentioned above for pictures and a link for the bulb.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by verslagen1 on 04/07/16 at 21:39:00
in't that perdy  http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/love/love-daydream-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

http://www.savage-distel.de/images/werk/2005_borile_ls_scrambler.jpg

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Dave on 04/08/16 at 04:16:49
Yes that is very pretty.....wonder what it is?

The Savage engine is used in what appears to have been a rather light frame.

For all those bikes with the large lights along side the headlight.....if you used them sparingly - I suppose you could get by with using them.  And if they had LED bulbs in all 3 you might be able to use them all the time.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Dave on 04/08/16 at 08:08:34
Versy.....You solved the mystery with this link.....it is a Borile chassis!


3C2F3839262B2D2F247B4A0 wrote:
http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/import/embedded/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Borile-B450-Scrambler-SIDE-R.jpg?itok=ouz7c4i5


http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/05/14/borile-b450-scrambler-first-look-review-photos

I wonder if that bike with the Suzuki Savage engine is a prototype bike built by Borile?

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by jrobeson18 on 04/08/16 at 10:16:27

4240534D535149404853210 wrote:
I might as well throw some more gas on the fire. I have posted before that I mounted 2 15watt led driving lights on my s40. When I used them along side the stock low beam at night I had no problems. But I only used them on long rides at speed.(full charging power) I have now gone to a 20/40 watt led sealed beam that has WAYYYYYYY more lighting capability than any h4 bulb I have tried, even a 90/100 watt. If you guys want to have more visibility at night you should go with a led sealed beam. The difference is huge. The bulbs labeled ''daymaker'' really are. Talk to the Harley guys that have them and look at how they light-up the road and the price will be forgotten once you start riding with one.

See the last page of the link Dave mentioned above for pictures and a link for the bulb.



See all im looking for would be a full headlight LED swap. all three lamps be LED so they wouldn't draw a lot of power. and be brighter than stock bulbs. with out blinding traffic

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by Dave on 04/08/16 at 11:13:31
Well.....I think that most likely would be doable, as the LED headlight would reduce the power needs.  And if you are running white LED running/driving lights up front - you won't need the yellow running lights that are in the turn signals (you could disconnect those wires from the yellow lights and used them for your white running lights.

I just bought a pair of what I believe is the proper LED headlight bulbs to try - as they have the proper vertical cut off for the low beam, they are being shipped from the US, and they were just $ 49.99 for the pair.  (Looks like I bought his last set.....but look for other ones that have the little metal tab on the light, as this is what keeps you from blinding other drivers when you use the low beam).http://www.ebay.com/itm/401033052696?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


http://www.ebay.com/itm/80W-9000LM-Kit-LED-Headlight-H4-H13-9004-9007-High-Low-Beam-Bulbs-6000K-/141894946446?vxp=mtr

http://www.amazon.com/Headlight-Evitek-6500K-Easy-Installed-4500LM/dp/B017M566T4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1451400580&sr=8-3&keywords=EVITEK%20h4&tag=viglink20849-20

I have not yet seen anyone that sells these LED's individually, they come as a pair.  You will have to put your second one in the Marketplace and sell it.

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by KennyG on 04/08/16 at 19:42:14
I don't know if this would be of interest to anyone.

I received it in an email from Ron Ayers today.

http://www.ronayers.com/catalog/460/led-hid-light-kits

I no longer ride after dark so the factory headlight is satisfactory.

Kenny

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by DesertRat on 04/09/16 at 07:17:03

776473726D6066646F30010 wrote:
in't that perdy  http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/love/love-daydream-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

http://www.savage-distel.de/images/werk/2005_borile_ls_scrambler.jpg

Very nice. I love all the chrome. Been wanting to do this for awhile now. CHROME the whole bike, tins, frame, everything that will take chrome gets the shiny treatment.  :D

Title: Re: driving light/fog lights addition
Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 10:59:23
I wonder what LED lights to use for that.

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