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Message started by DesertRat on 04/03/16 at 18:43:54

Title: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by DesertRat on 04/03/16 at 18:43:54

found this and not sure WTF or is this a non-running trailer queen -

http://https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f5/8b/48/f58b4843b304f6338de5be4e3e799f6c.jpg

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by Kris01 on 04/03/16 at 19:10:48

Where do you find these beautiful bikes?

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by verslagen1 on 04/03/16 at 19:23:40

not sure I would call that an inverted jug
inverted mean bottom over top.
now reversed could mean backwards.
hell, it's a backwards jug plain and simple.

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by verslagen1 on 04/03/16 at 19:25:40

Is that plate on the bottom the license plate? 8-)

niffy use if it were.

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by Kris01 on 04/03/16 at 19:40:40

Probably flips behind the rear tire when riding.

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by DesertRat on 04/03/16 at 20:08:21

526B706A2928190 wrote:

Where do you find these beautiful bikes?

I'm an oddball bike junkie ...
if it's a rat bike or junk yard build I'm on it ... 8-)

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by DesertRat on 04/03/16 at 20:09:17

697A6D6C737E787A712E1F0 wrote:

Is that plate on the bottom the license plate? 8-)

niffy use if it were.

it's BLOODY BRILLIANT for sure ...

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by DesertRat on 04/03/16 at 20:14:36

check out his rectifier relocation ... ;)

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by gizzo on 04/03/16 at 21:01:34

Snap! Same place I put mine 8-).
Caution: Shameless excuse to post a pic of my scooter ;)

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by DesertRat on 04/03/16 at 21:14:41

gizzo,

LOVE the baby blue ...

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by gizzo on 04/03/16 at 22:02:33

Everybody loves the baby blue!!!! Thanks man.

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by Serowbot on 04/03/16 at 23:09:26

Needs pedals.... doncha' think?... :-?

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by MMRanch on 04/03/16 at 23:17:43

Well guys :

I used to have a XS-650 and did some "internal engine work on it."

so:

both pistons are up and down at the same time .
If a person was to move the Cam 270 deg. what would ya have ???
The piston would be going down while the exhaust valve was open.
...
you would have to make a mirror image cam and put it in 270 deg. early ??? :-?

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by DesertRat on 04/04/16 at 07:29:24

554755474A59565B50180 wrote:

SO, you're saying it could function provided the cam was reworked?

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by HovisPresley on 04/04/16 at 08:12:48

Nice bike, but definitely a trailer queen, I think.

A friend of mine had a Triumph with a reversed head, back in the 80's.
It was impossible to set up the carbs, as I remember, because of the position of the intakes and the forced induction at speed.

I've heard of Halco Tuning doing 270' cranks for the XS....interesting.

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by Dave on 04/04/16 at 08:13:10

Some folks are making the original 360 degree firing engines into a more modern 270 degree firing order. The stock XS650 engine fires a cylinder every time the engine rotates 360 degrees.....every time a piston comes up one is firing while the other one is between the exhaust/intake strokes. Modern twins are using a 270 degree crank where one crank throw is rotated 90 degrees....so the firing occurs 270 degrees apart at the shortest interval - and 450 degrees at the longest interval. This makes a bit of a "lopey" sound to the engine. It is supposed to result in less vibration - and racing bikes use this design as it is supposed to provide better traction.....the longer 450 degree phase without engine power is supposed to allow the tire to get a better hook up with the pavement.

In order to get a 270 degree firing order, the crank, camshaft and ignition systems all have to be modified. A special center

http://hughshandbuilt.blogspot.com/2013/08/270-degree-xs650-engine-for-sale.html

The engine can be rephased to 277 degrees with the stock center crank pin - and this is a more common approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-j9q6K_828

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by DesertRat on 04/04/16 at 12:00:59

from the links Dave provided:

Quote:

for $7500 plus your buildable core (existing Engine Build Customers are welcome to take advantage of this as well) - would rather not ship (crating fees will be added)

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by Kris01 on 04/04/16 at 17:48:04

You can't just spin the head around, can you?

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by HovisPresley on 04/04/16 at 23:31:30

714853490A0B3A0 wrote:

You can't just spin the head around, can you?

If you are an owl, maybe :D

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/05/16 at 06:33:54

Modern twins are using a 270 degree crank where one crank throw is rotated 90 degrees....so the firing occurs 270 degrees apart at the shortest interval - and 450 degrees at the longest interval. This makes a bit of a "lopey" sound to the engine. It is supposed to result in less vibration - and racing bikes use this design as it is supposed to provide better traction.

I know Harley Davidson was really popular with the dirt track guys,, I really don't understand how setting up one cylinder ninety degrees off Decreases vibration, but I Can kinda get the traction thing.
Good post, Dave.
Any sites that you'd suggest that might help me understand would be fun ..

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by Dave on 04/05/16 at 13:14:48

Rotating the head around might seem simple at first - but the more I think about it the more I think it would be difficult.

Assuming the camshaft is driven from the center, and that the cylinder studs are laid out in a symmetrical pattern...maybe it can be rotated. But what about the camshaft????....If you rotate the camshaft with the head it is now rotating backwards....and what used to be the lifting ramp is now on the backside of the rotation. And what about the oil feed to the camshaft......how does the head get the oil pressure to the head?

There was a fellow living in Cincinnati who built an old BMW airhead to set a land speed record, and he had reversed the cylinders so the carb was on the front of each cylinder and the exhaust was out the back. Not sure how he did that one either - but for some reason it seems that it would be easier on a pushrod engine.

Title: Re: XS650 inverted jug?
Post by verslagen1 on 04/05/16 at 13:33:49

1F24293E2F23383E252D203F4C0 wrote:

There was a fellow living in Cincinnati who built an old BMW airhead to set a land speed record, and he had reversed the cylinders so the carb was on the front of each cylinder and the exhaust was out the back. Not sure how he did that one either - but for some reason it seems that it would be easier on a pushrod engine.

I think you swap heads, left for right and vice versa.