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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Shinko 712f wear report /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1459185697 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 10:21:37 |
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Title: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 10:21:37 Well, after 2200-2300 miles, I found some wear worth talking about on my Shinko 712 front tire. I found some uneven wear on a certain trailing edge of the tread. I reckon this is the part of the tread that gets the most shearing forces from braking and such. Is this the beginnings of what is called cupping, or is cupping something slightly different? I think I used around 32 psi at first, but lately I have been using more-- 37 psi, according to the latest measurement. The fellow who sold it to me (I don't put much confidence in this fellow, FYI) specifically told me to run it at 40 psi. Strangely, that is also the max cold pressure. What am I doing wrong? Should I check rear tire alignment? I think I am using the front brake a little more since my front is new and the rear feels a bit glazed (It will still lock though). Could I be riding it hard? Or is it simply time to show wear? How can I make it wear evenly? I don't want lumpy tread on my new front tire. :( I may post pictures soon. It's probably a lot harder to see it in the pictures. It's not hard to see in person. You should be able to see the rounded edges, though. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 10:34:33 Would a poor balancing job cause this problem. I don't put much faith in the guy that did it. He only put one weight on it. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/16 at 11:28:05 What kind of air did you use? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 14:11:09 I used hot air. That's the best kind, right? :D ;D Seriously speaking, is there anything to that question? I gather that the max is 40 psi cold, which means it could probably stand a pound or two more @ room temps. I don't think were talking about nitrogen or other gasses. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/16 at 14:30:26 Sorry had in my mind a question from a customer... he asked me what spec air do I use when testing my ducts, DIN or SAE? I said the free kind. when you see this on a car, you check your balance, bushings, air pressure, etc. 40psi is too high, 29 is recommended. and are you still using rotella as fork oil? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by gizzo on 03/28/16 at 14:37:17 Could be any of the reasons you mention. Or it could just be the tyre. Some tyres do it a lot more than others and its just the way it is. Going into corners hard on the brakes seems to encourage it. Versy made a good point: I'd forgotten the fork oil saga. If your forks too stiff, the tyre is going to assume more suspension duties with no damping abilities. So it will patter along the road and wear like that. Check a road ridden knobbly front tyre for a good example. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 17:00:17 Yes, I haven't changed the oil in the forks, but I only used around 1/3 motor oil. The rest is ATF. It should be no worse than using 15-20 weight fork oil. I might add, though, that many of my miles were made in cool weather, which would stiffen the forks. On the other hand, it would also harden the tires as well, so...??? :-/ The VI of ATF and 5w-40 should be fairly high compared to run-of-the-mill 15 weight fork oil, therefore I wonder if the forks would have been just as stiff, if not stiffer otherwise... unless you're thinking of straight ATF. I thought that low pressure caused cupping. :-? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 17:18:19 This is very close to what I'm getting. http://www.ncsportbikes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=29380 My forks could be a tad stiff, but the weather may contribute somewhat. When I feel like it, I'm going to loosen the axle and play with the wheel to see if there are any noticeable imbalances. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 17:34:44 From watching it, I have felt that my front tire hasn't been rolling down the road smoothly. It could be that my fork oil mixture is thicker than I estimated, or I have balance issues. ...Or it could be nothing in particular. :-???? ...Or maybe it is something... Just something else...??? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 17:46:31 See the scuffing and wear I'm pointing to? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 18:24:40 If excessive damping is the problem, then how do all those stiff-suspension fans like WD manage? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 18:39:04 Another picture |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 18:40:10 And another |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 18:42:58 I've squeezed at least 2200k out of that evil rear tire (8 yr. Metzler). It's Shinko 712 replacement is patiently awaiting installation. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 18:44:58 Another pic. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by gizzo on 03/28/16 at 18:46:35 5A515C5849575C4E5B0B0D390 wrote:
They just put up with it while they float their own boat. I only saw the pic on a mb phone screen but it doesn't look terrible. Maybe try lower tyre pressure and see what happens. Some tyres do it, some not. If you really can't handle it, try a ribbed tyre like the Avon speedmaster aka slidemaster. They don't do that: no sipes, just radial grooves. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by Ruttly on 03/28/16 at 19:02:49 Try leaning the bike when making turns , really look at your pics! Next Continentals , Dunlops , Metzlers , etc. When you only have 2 tires that's not the place to skimp to save a few bucks. It could be a life or death decision ! |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by Kris01 on 03/28/16 at 19:12:23 It looks fine to me. I run about40 psi in the rear tire. Anything less feels too squirmy. Front tire gets a little more than recommended but nowhere near 40. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by oldNslow on 03/28/16 at 19:25:05 Lower the pressure to 29psi,( wearing the center of the tread like that is a sign of overinflation) replace your fork oil with the correct viscosity and amount of oil, and double check the balance. Also check your rim for trueness. Get it up off the ground and spin it and make sure it doesn't look like it's hopping up and down when it spins. I've got that same tire on my bike with about 2K on it and it's wearing just fine, In fact it still looks just about like it did when it was new, so I don't think it's the tire. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 19:26:50 6F48494951443D0 wrote:
Ruttly, I'm probably not the most aggressive leaner around, especially since I'm new, but I don't want to wear my tires flat. I have been on purposely commuting in the twisties. You have to look more closely at the pics. I do have chicken strips, but the extent of the darker patches represent my full lean angle. The center is simply dirty from being run on dirt roads. The rear tire seems slightly rounder than it looks in the pics, but, yes it is still worn pretty flat. Some of that wear was from the previous owners. I do have some 4-lane in the commute, though. There's a decent chance that Metzler is the replacement for the stock IRC tire. It is probably the second (or third, at most) tire that rim has ever touched. Also, from what I've gathered, Shinko 712 gets pretty good reviews for the price, especially the rear. It's not like they are jinxed into being slick as axle grease just because they're cheap. ;) ::) |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 19:41:10 0A3435392B3736580 wrote:
I wonder if the air pressure isn't the problem. I think that was the last thing I changed before I noticed this. Not sure I'm ready to throw away my make do fork oil yet. It's liable to be just perfect come summer. But then, the rubber will also be softer and more easily worn... :-/ I'll think about it. 15 weight is the recommended. I doubt what's in there is too much heavier. Any more thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 21:09:43 I'm gonna have to experiment a little with the pressure some more. I wonder if I don't like the handling of my tires better "over-inflated" to an extent. :-/ Does anyone else think 37 psi is too much in the front? Does anyone think 37 psi is just right? :-? Does anyone else think that wear pattern is caused by too much air? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by DesertRat on 03/28/16 at 21:16:29 what does the side of the tire specs state as COLD tire pressure? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 21:19:27 40 cold for the front. I think the Metzler rear specs a little more. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by DesertRat on 03/28/16 at 21:29:05 from the Suzuki service manual for STOCK tires |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by Serowbot on 03/28/16 at 21:51:10 You don't inflate tires to the tire manufacturers max... you inflate them based on bike weight. Use the bike manufacturers recommendation. In our case, as RAt has posted,... it's 29 front 33 rear... 40 is too much. ..unless you weigh 500lbs... :-? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by WD on 03/28/16 at 22:16:51 My 712F stays at 32psi +/- a couple pounds. Which happens to be manufacturer recommended maximum inflation. Tire is going into summer 4, pushing 40k miles and still has a LOT of tread left, including molding whiskers. Rear tire on Pokey was installed in 2000. Still has actual tread after 10 years of hard use, bike parked in 2010, turned parts bike in 2014. Not bad for a $39 Chi-com cheepy. I routinely get 80-100k miles out of 50-60k mile rated tires on my pickups. You guys need to learn how to tune your suspensions. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 22:20:42 But don't you find that precise handling of over-inflation so nice, even if it does reduce traction and cause other problems? Oh well... can't win 'em all, right? ::) |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 22:23:13 4D5E1A0 wrote:
HOW ON EARTH!?!?!?!?! :o |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 22:24:55 By the way, WD, how much do you and the bike weigh? What kind of suspension tuning did you have on that bike? Fork oil? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by Art Webb on 03/29/16 at 14:59:59 4B6C6D6D7560190 wrote:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Shinko 712 tires, other than the front wandering a bit on grooved pavement (jut like the stock IRC) they ride smooth, they stick well, and they're a good tire where they do lose out is wear, the 712 wears quicker than a Metzeler, but that's mostly due to the Met being thicker (it weighs more ) the 712 is the most commonly recommended tire on this site for the S40 unless you're a high mileage rider, followed by the 230 if you want longer life and slightly better ride, and I believe the 230 gets somewhat better wet traction and most of us use or have used them on the S40 |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/29/16 at 16:35:52 Well, I don't really like the looks of the 230. The tread has small tread grooves, and the rear tire is flattish in shape. It's not that pretty a tire, is it? I got my Dad a set for his Shadow. I like my 712 rear. I just haven't put it on yet. ;) |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/29/16 at 16:50:40 By the way, that 8 year old Metzler is not exactly as bad as some would think. I've been rediscovering leaning lately, and today I dragged my heels a time or two in the twisties with that ragged out tire. Of course, my heels are probably significantly lower than the pegs at times, especially since I like to keep the rear brake covered. One time, my heel dragged the ground and caused me to panic and yank the bike up in the curve, if you know what I mean (wobble). That was a wild "whoa" moment, but I can't say the tires ever lost traction, not even that junky old Metzler. Strangely, I dragged my heel and/or peg while turning into the parking lot at the restaurant where I work once. That was very unexpected. :-? |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/29/16 at 21:52:37 I lowered the pressure on the front tire to 31-32 psi. It probably doesn't need any more than that. I've got around 35-36 in the rear. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by gizzo on 03/29/16 at 23:11:38 7F74797D6C72796B7E2E281C0 wrote:
Feels good, don't it? 8-) Take it easy pulling into the parking lot. going up the kerb you suddenly lose a lot of ground clearance and bits drag. Probably why it happened so unexpectedly. Saw a guy stack his cruiser not long ago doing just that. One of the guys in the other tyre thread mentioned Keith Code and A twist of the wrist. Watch vol. 2 on youtube. It's really good advice. I went out and had a look at my front tyre, just to see. The Michelin Macadam on my bike looks almost as new with around 10,000km, no feathering. Might be a weight thing perhaps? You heavier guys might cause the front wheel to push a little more than us lighter fellows. My Michelin. Looks backward but it isn't. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by WD on 03/30/16 at 22:53:21 Bike is about the same weight as stock, even with all the modifications. Solo seat and glasspack muffler are a lot lighter than the stock parts. My weight fluctuates between 225 and 260 pounds. Tuning the fork is not difficult. Oil level and weight chance nges until you get the feel you prefer. Tuning the rear suspension is as easy as greasing anything that pivots, including the shock mounting lugs on the frame. Then playing with the shock settings until realizing the stock shocks are garbage and buying decent replacements. If you get shocks with a threaded body instead of notches so much the better. Adjust your speed and riding style to suit your road surfaces most commonly encountered. Chip seal or similar (gravel dumped onto sprayed oil) requires a few less psi than asphalt or concrete. It's just a simple matter of determining how abrasive your roads are and tailoring your pressures to suit. I run the truck tires (P type on minis, LT on full sized) within 4 psi of sidewall max, except the load range E mud tires on the Z71 only get 60psi instead of 80psi. |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by springman on 03/31/16 at 13:03:56 At 40 psi you did severely over inflate your tire and adversely affected your handling. You should stay at or close to the Suzuki recommended air pressure. If you have developed cupping your tire will probably continue to wear irregularly even after you correct the air pressure. If it affects your handling too much, change it. What probably happened is the same as the effect of a bad shock, your tire has probably been bouncing a lot more than it should. Your choice of fork oil may or may not have contributed. The 712 rear is a great tire for the money. I have yet to change my front tire but think I will be getting a Shinko 230 soon as my front tire though it looks just fine is rather old. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Shinko 712f wear report Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/31/16 at 16:31:30 I brought the pressure down to 31 front, 35 rear. I hope my tire straightens up. With my rough roads, I wonder if I shouldn't go lower. As one here put it, replacing tires is better than replacing suspensions. |
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