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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> so i locked my rear tire /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1458692950 Message started by jrobeson18 on 03/22/16 at 17:29:10 |
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Title: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/22/16 at 17:29:10 I was taking a corner and accidentally locked my rear tire, which I was going to get replaced next weekend. It is fairly worn. Hit the dirt. Grass thankfully. Now my handlebars and or wheel are not lining up! Feels like I'm turning right when I'm going straight. Kinda asking if I did bend the bars. Which look straight, but I think I pressed the throttle grip in. The forks look straight from every direction. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Dave on 03/22/16 at 17:39:27 It is easy to "tweak" the forks and make the steering off a bit. Loosen the bottom clamps on the forks where they pinch the fork tubes. Straddle the wheel and hold onto it with your legs, and jerk the bars the direction you want to correct them. Tighten the lower clamps and go for a ride and see if the steering is straight....it may take a few tries to get it correct. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/22/16 at 17:53:55 5C676A7D6C607B7D666E637C0F0 wrote:
Just for clarity the bottom clamps, are where they lock on to the wheel axle? I havnt looked scrutinizing the bike in a while. Ive forgotten most part layout on it. Will definitely try this tomorrow! After all I'm a bit sore. I'm hoping I dont have to replace the handle bars. I know I'm going to be getting my tire l and rear brakes done soon |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Serowbot on 03/22/16 at 18:36:00 617964696E7864653A330B0 wrote:
No,.. the lower pair of pinch bolts on the triple tree... |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/22/16 at 18:39:51 5741564B53464B50240 wrote:
No,.. the lower pair of pinch bolts on the triple tree...[/quote] Okay. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/24/16 at 09:26:00 Well it fixed it a little bit. It is still a little off. But now the bike cut off on my twice. Once at a stop sign. And the other running 35 two roads before my turn for home. Its sitting idle right now. But it seems to be okay at the moment |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/24/16 at 12:09:04 Also bike runs with petcock on the PRI position as well as the RES bike will stall in the on position while riding. Will idle on on position |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 14:25:26 Just to offer my experience, I started having problems with fuel starvation after I wrecked mine. The filter screen tube on the petcock (manual Raptor or clone) fell off into the tank and allowed garbage to build on the filter screen located behind the float valve. I hadn't owned the bike long, so I can't say it was the wreck for sure that caused everything, but it started quickly after the wreck. Not saying you have the same problem, but if you happen to feel like it's starving for gas (not saying you are), that's one kind of thing that could cause a problem. Of course, it sounds like you have the factory petcock? (I never had one on mine). Everyone here knows those give trouble anyway. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 14:35:01 58405D5057415D5C030A320 wrote:
Actually, that sounds alot like fuel starvation due to either trash in the system, petcock failing, or both. (IMHO) In my case, I could drive the thing, but once I got to highway speed for a while, the float bowl would run low, and she would die. Pull over (bowl would slowly refill); restart; run full choke, full throttle all they way while she chugs and jerks along trying to die; she dies; rinse; repeat. Sometimes I couldn't even maintain a reasonable speed. One night I would waddle-run with her just to try to get/keep her running. It was a fight to get home. Fortunately, I had a friend following. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/28/16 at 14:38:33 By the way, how did you lock your rear tire? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/28/16 at 15:16:01 656E636776686371643432060 wrote:
Going around a turn that gets sharper. Going the speed limit and panicked. Rookie mistake. Well I saw an oncoming car, and then panic brake. I ended up ditching the turn for softer grass. No dents. No paint scratches. 2 bruises. And now an apparent faulty petcock. I'll have to take it apart and see for myself. Since the bike is 1/5 a tank of gas left... I'm getting new handlebars And the raptor petcock asap. Probably gunna pull the fenders and repaint them while the rear tire is off getting a new tire put on. As well as rear shoes. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Ed L. on 03/28/16 at 15:49:29 Check the long bolts that go through the risers while you have the handle bars off. They are easy to bend even with a slow spill. Take them out and roll them on something flat to see if they got bent. Good to hear it wasn't any worse. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/29/16 at 01:35:47 Appreciate it. Now to figure out what's up with the bike.haha |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Struch on 03/29/16 at 04:33:05 Going around a turn that gets sharper. Going the speed limit and panicked. Rookie mistake. Well I saw an oncoming car, and then panic brake If you can check out video Cave Code Twist on the wrist. it going over this aspect and same other to. Ride safe. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/16 at 06:51:27 7B5C5A5D4B40280 wrote:
I went looking. Maybe a link would help. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 03/29/16 at 12:53:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZwyOCdUup8 |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Kruzader on 03/29/16 at 21:43:54 sweeeet. awesome thank you guys. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Struch on 03/29/16 at 22:49:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZwyOCdUup8 Full name is The Cornering Bible - Twist of the wrist II it is also a book!! with pics and diagrams if you in to detailing |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by chzeckmate on 03/29/16 at 23:05:02 7D65787572647879262F170 wrote:
Going around a turn that gets sharper. Going the speed limit and panicked. Rookie mistake. Well I saw an oncoming car, and then panic brake. I ended up ditching the turn for softer grass.[/quote] Countersteering is the answer. Consciously countersteer every time you ride and make it a part of your riding skillset and you'll be so much safer. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA I'm glad you're alright. Hope this helps you. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/30/16 at 03:08:33 See, thats the bad part. I was counter steering. I was full lean and committed. The person behind me said my rear tire was floating around. Probably why I didnt turn as hard as i thought I should have... I got the new tire, waiting to be put on. Now to find time and money to do the brakes and clean it up and paint the rim while its off |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/30/16 at 06:20:44 2B332E2324322E2F7079410 wrote:
Going around a turn that gets sharper. Going the speed limit and panicked. Rookie mistake. Well I saw an oncoming car, and then panic brake. I ended up ditching the turn for softer grass. No dents. No paint scratches. 2 bruises. And now an apparent faulty petcock. I'll have to take it apart and see for myself. Since the bike is 1/5 a tank of gas left... I'm getting new handlebars And the raptor petcock asap. Probably gunna pull the fenders and repaint them while the rear tire is off getting a new tire put on. As well as rear shoes.[/quote] Remember to check to see if the petcock filter tubes are intact. If something's amiss, you may have to go into the carb and clean the trash from that filter.That float valve can be hard to remove, too. Get a really good grip on it with Vise Grips, but remember that it is soft brass and can collapse. I boogered mine up, but it still works. I have a new one if I need it, though. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/30/16 at 07:08:37 15323433252E460 wrote:
I'm not finished yet, but it does seem to be on target. I had no idea about flicking the bike ,how, even if it could be done, until shortly after I got brave enough to ride in town and some woman came out of her lane and took mine. Something inside me shoved on the bar, the bike dropped over, cranked it the other way and it literally hopped into the next lane. Could I do that just Any time? No, I couldn't. Someone else might can, it's possible to Do, I know, but sometimes stuff works out for Me best when it is a reflexive response to a hazard Someone else created. If I Decide to do it, it's not as fluid and the Timing is from My brain, not the defensive, reflexive part. A national champion, all round gymnast buddy summed it up, Think long, think wrong. Once you are in the groove, no daydreaming, solid , in the moment, riding, then, like shooting pool, you See the lines and Then quick responses become more reflexive, But, as the video points out, Many natural instincts are just wrong and before you discover the right reflexive move to teach yourself, you could get dead. My first high speed corner, Yamaha RD400, riding away from my friend, longish right sweep, two lane, 55 mph for cars, easy, so, I'm inside, and a bit over 80, yee haa,, down a ways, slowed, processing and figuring on a hotter return trip. Didn't know that Now I'm on the Outside and the crown of the road puts me off camber... I had zero experience with the term counter steering, but I was running over 90, and I couldn't get the bike leaned, nothing but a wall of pine trees to hit, so, I turned left,, and it started standing up. Crossed That off as an answer and, knowing that I was now Way off line and the next answer works or im in real trouble, I steered right, it layed down and got through the turn. Once it was on the straight, I stopped, right in the middle of the road,got off, and just shook.. You can be shook up later,, right Now, you better be doing Something. And no, no helmet, but you go into a wall of trees at speed and the helmet is not gonna save you. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/30/16 at 07:34:10 133432352328400 wrote:
I learned a lot in the halfway mark. I'll finish it at home when I'm not working. Seems to be pretty spot on. Great link. And I took thr petcock off. It looked undamaged. It has a orange shaft with mesh fixed to it( I dont think its OE) gas was a clean as it could be. Strainded I when draining and all that. Ibran it for about 5 min yesterday, to make sure I got everything back together good. The cam chain tensioner has got to get done before I ride it. As well as brakes... Anyone know where I can get brake reasonably cheap? I work in auto parts but I have no idea the part number they are. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 03/30/16 at 07:57:23 If there are two pipes, there should be a plastic mesh filter pipe on each. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/30/16 at 08:11:06 Its solid one long tube. About 1" wide and about 4-6 long IIRC. And about six open mesh spots per side. I'll drain thr tank and take it out for pictures. I have to find and change my spark plug. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 03/30/16 at 08:13:35 I bought these several years ago...seem to do the trick... http://atvbrakesnmore.ecrater.com/p/4087053/suzuki-brakes-05-08-ls-650-boulevard-s40 |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/30/16 at 08:48:52 Will those fit? Mine is a 1996 |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 03/30/16 at 13:02:20 they have another set on the site that fits your year... looks like the same part number...except for a "K" |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/31/16 at 04:53:11 Okay, ordered a set. Now to find a raptor pet thingy... The picture attached, if it works, it one the looks identical to the one that came off my bike. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Dave on 03/31/16 at 05:27:36 You don't want to buy another diaphragm petcock that is prone to failure. You want a genuine Yamaha Raptor manual petcock (Not a chinese copy....look for the part number 5LP-24500-01-00, Yamaha name, and white box). http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-2005-Yamaha-Raptor-660-SE-Fuel-Petcock-Assembly-5LP-24500-01-00-/271684365248?fits=Make%3AYamaha|Model%3ARaptor+660R&hash=item3f41a66bc0:g:L~cAAOSwq7JUGwV6&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Gas-Tank-Petcock-Turn-Valve-thingy-OEM-Yamaha-Raptor-YFM660R-YFM-660R-660-R-/191767353153?hash=item2ca6399741:g:FSsAAOxyyF5RRHiU&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Factory-Yamaha-Petcock-Fuel-Gas-Valve-01-05-YFM660-Raptor-660-E0479-/301452394275?hash=item462ff67f23:g:yNYAAOSwg3FUmJK3&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 03/31/16 at 05:54:38 I only used that as a picture reference. I am definitely getting a raptor petcock. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/10/16 at 07:08:53 Just an update I got the Raptor petcock, Brake set, new rear tire. Got it all put on and test rode.. The bike still continues to cut off like its starving for fuel. I have to put the new(and did have to with the old) petcock in the Reserve position to get the bike to start back. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 07:31:20 My rear brake was too easy to lock up. I cut the shoes with the edge of a four inch grinder.Eliminating about 1/3 of the contact area. It was Much better. I would take a little more off, if I had kept the bike. How much gas in the tank? Did you open the cap? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 08:27:50 I bucked up for a deer the other night that never even jumped out in the road. I was just afraid it would. Tells you how much I trust deer. ;D Anyway-- about that rear tire-- I had a hard time keeping it from sliding. I thought my drum had glazed over, as it didn't seem to have a huge amount of bite. But when I actually needed it to stop, that darn thing locked too easy. I don't think I even put anywhere near full pressure on the front brake. I had to focus on keeping it in control. Ever notice you are less likely to use the front brake when the rear locks up? Or is it just me? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 08:41:47 0B130E0304120E0F5059610 wrote:
This is sounding more like the problem I had. Did you check the filter screen behind the float valve? When it's starving for fuel, it should cut off slowly over a span of, say, 5 seconds (could be more or could be less) increasingly weakening, missing and bucking before finally losing all power. If it cuts suddenly without bucking, I would suspect an electrical problem. Of course, even a loose connection could probably cause missing and bucking, right? Actually, if the your condition is just right in severity, you'll be able to ride for miles with the bike missing and bucking all the way. I used the enrichment knob and full throttle to make it to work at least once that way. That was fairly early in the issue's progression. But then, riding that way could be hard on the engine. Have you ever had a bike try to die on you while riding with the fuel shut off? It's kinda like that, but it can take longer and more pressure (throttle) to occur, depending on the severity of the blockage. This means that instead of barely making it around the block, you end up sitting on the shoulder of a four-lane. ::) |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 09:54:39 717A7773627C7765702026120 wrote:
But when I actually needed it to stop, that darn thing locked too easy There's a simple solution. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/10/16 at 16:37:07 It is bucking. Missing and all that good stuff before it stops running The carb was recently redone and cleaned. I have new gas in it. Cant imagine it being electrical. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/10/16 at 16:42:47 3D363B3F2E303B293C6C6A5E0 wrote:
Well since mine wont go 1/4 mile in the ON position nor idle good(just tested this today) I'm thinking ill just ride it in the RES position Quote:
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by gizzo on 04/10/16 at 17:50:56 Did you try it with the tank cap off or loose per JoG's advice? It's good advice.... Even try it at home: Lock the cap on, disconnect the fuel line and have it empty into a tin. Open the fuel tap. see what comes out. A steady stream or a dribble? Listen to the fuel cap. Hear a whistling noise? If you don't, it's not venting and the fuel can't come out. The tank needs to be able to replace draining fuel with air, otherwise the fuel just wants to stay in the tank. If the cap is blocked, it needs repairing or replacing. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 18:39:00 Yep, if it's not draining, it's not feeding the carb. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Kris01 on 04/10/16 at 21:03:43 4D464B4F5E404B594C1C1A2E0 wrote:
That's because you're more focused on NOT dumping the bike than you are on actually braking correctly! |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 04:05:55 I did empty the tank starting with the tank cap on. and with it off. ran the bike both ways too. results indifferent. and yes I try to focus on braking correctly and using counter steering all the time |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/16 at 04:54:08 I did empty the tank starting with the tank cap on. and with it off. ran the bike both ways too. results indifferent. Well, snot the cap vent. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 05:41:45 Also, when I start the bike when its in gear, yes holding in the clutch. the bike jerks forward like the clutch isn't fully disengauged. anyone got a write up- how to on adjusting the clutch catch point? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/16 at 05:50:50 That's just normal. Put it in neutral. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 06:04:09 Okay, seemed kinda weird. never had dirt bikes do that back to the fuel starv issue. think I should pull the carb apart and check the float and all that? ive only pulled it apart once and it was my first time with a carb. I had help doing it. don't really know what all needs to be checked in their |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Art Webb on 04/11/16 at 08:15:08 427B607A3938090 wrote:
That's because you're more focused on NOT dumping the bike than you are on actually braking correctly![/quote] that's why, when this happens, you need to totally release the rear brake, let the bike settle, and apply the front instead Of course, that's near impossible if you're approaching an obstacle at seat-mohawk inducing speed |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Art Webb on 04/11/16 at 08:17:42 5A425F5255435F5E0108300 wrote:
Pilot jet, main jet, needle / seat, and the screen at the fuel inlet for the carb Plus, just fir gits and shiggles, the accelerator pump passage |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 08:22:10 okay then. got a picture that details what those are? I just had a kit and a buddy who has worked on them before. would it hurt to ride it on the RES setting prolonged? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Art Webb on 04/11/16 at 08:37:09 wait, are you saying it doesn't do this when ridden on RES? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 09:16:35 It does not cut off when ridding on RES It idles better on RES as well On the ON position at Idle its choppy. sounds like missing (could be the worn cam chain, currently waiting on the Verslavy) but switch it to RES and its instantly better/higher |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Art Webb on 04/11/16 at 09:47:22 I think your petcock is damaged, or the screen is clogged somehow if running on reserve fixes the problem i'd ride on reserve and get a new, genuine raptor petcock and see what happens years of wrenching have taught me, as much as I like to 2nd guess myself, the simple answers are usually the right ones |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 09:58:38 I had just bought and installed a raptor petcock. another member sent me a link to one, I bought it. pulled everything cleaned it and opened box put it on checked for leaks. vacuum as well. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Art Webb on 04/11/16 at 10:04:01 Now that is odd if it was a carb problem I would expect it to act up when running on reserve, too I'm stumped as far as pics of the jets to clean and such, for some reason I can't access photobucket with my PC running through my Cell Data, so i couldn't post pics if I had them I'm sure Versy or someone can, and will, when they see the request for photos :-[ |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 10:23:41 it is very odd to me as well. I work on car on the side. and I may not be the guru of motorcycle repair but I have a fair bit of know how with checking diagnostics and cleaning gunk outa where it shouldn't be. I am stumped from here. the only thing I can think of to do is put some seafoam/ ethanol free gas with my buddys race engine combustion camber cleaner through it an see how it goes. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/16 at 12:24:27 You did say that the flow rate was the same on reserve and on? It's a Raptor, not a Chinese knock off? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Dave on 04/11/16 at 12:54:48 5B435E5354425E5F0009310 wrote:
If the bike runs well on RES - but not in the ON position....then there is something wrong with the petcock. Your carb and engine really shouldn't be able to tell the difference between those two settings if the petcock is working properly and it flows enough fuel in both positions. If the bike is running well in the RES position, and you switch to ON....how long does it take for the bad running symptoms to appear? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Kris01 on 04/11/16 at 16:22:39 Ya think maybe the "ON" section of the petcock is clogged with trash? The "RES" seems to be clear. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/11/16 at 16:33:40 Its out of the box new. I went as far as blowing compressed air through it to check. I rode it for about 5 miles. It runs fine on the res position |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/16 at 20:07:03 Stock or Raptor? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/11/16 at 22:30:11 The petcock can be disassembled if you feel you need to check it. Just be careful with the rubber seal inside. Silicone O-ring grease would be handy there if you've got some. Don't wanna tear it with friction after reassembly. You may also be able to pop off the plastic mesh standpipes. Be careful not to break them, and if they are loose, you can swell the brass pipe with a punch or something. The only difference between On and Reserve should be the height of the standpipe if I am not mistaken. Reserve is the shorter one. Not sure if reserve should give any higher fuel pressure given the same vertical drop with the same tank level. Also, did YOU do the carb or someone else? How do you know he replaced the float valve and cleaned the screen? On the other hand, my guess it's probably the petcock. ;) |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by chzeckmate on 04/12/16 at 03:46:51 677F626F687E62633C350D0 wrote:
Would you mind copy and pasting the link you were given for the petcock you purchased? I think it might be helpful. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 04/12/16 at 08:10:57 So I'm just going to throw this out there...just in case...did you block off the vac port on the carb after you installed the raptor? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/12/16 at 11:42:23 Didn't think of that.... His bike would go crazy if it had a vacuum leak. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 04/12/16 at 11:58:55 Yeah, well no one has mentioned the fact that when you switch to the raptor you need to seal off the vacuum port on the carb... |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/12/16 at 12:49:52 I dont know... When I got the bike one vac hose from thr carb was already blocked. And two others where not blocked Will post pictures in a few min Well I coil never get the pictures to resize down. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/12/16 at 12:53:16 you got 2 vents, 1 vacuum, and 1 for gas, don't mix them up. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CarbLeftweb.jpg http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CarbRightweb.jpg |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/12/16 at 20:51:30 The two vent hoses are clear and the vac hose is plugged. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/12/16 at 20:52:41 Hmmm... Maybe it's something else then.... First things first... Test the petcock. Unhook the fuel hose and drain the tank into a pint jar while counting seconds. I think you need at least a half pint a minute on the ON position, right guys? I think mine was doing around a pint a minute if I remember right. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/12/16 at 21:04:12 Here's an interesting thread that involves testing the fuel flow from the fuel drain on the float bowl. That may be just what the doctor ordered. [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] (If I'm misusing this emoticon, fill me in...) http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347636144/21 If you get good flow out the float bowl in the ON position, checking the petcock shouldn't be necessary. Quote:
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/12/16 at 21:44:23 Quote:
I'd say if you get half that much through the float bowl, you'll have more than enough gas. How many gallons per hour can the Savage use at sustained full throttle? Then again, at 90 mph, you might run out of gas after an hour or so of driving. If you get 40 mpg, then you'll use 2.25 gallons after an hour. Hmmm... If you get 30 mpg, you'll be using 3 gallons per hour at 90 mph. If you get (good grief) 20 mpg, then you'll be using 4.5 gallons per hour at 90 mph. I guess 5 gallons/hour is a comfortable place, though you might not need quite that much. From your problems, if the fuel flow to the bowl is causing it, I don't think you'll get half that. You may not even get a quarter of that. In short, if there's a fuel flow shortage there, you'll know it. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 03:04:43 Well I drove it around a little for about 30 min. Got coming home and it died while riding(gearing down to turn) with the new petcock in the RES position. I was reading the thread about carb adjustments. And I've never touched this carb to adjust it to try and tune it. As far as I know it has stock jets and all that. But the intake has the K&N drop in filter and I have a straight pipe exhaust with no baffle. I didnt know that it could have an effect on the carb. Although I dont really think its causing poor running conditions with ON position and the other wise random shut off. Just really trying to provide as much info as possible. This will be my daily driver when its decent weather. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 05:26:54 If you have the 145 main with straight pipe and performance filter, you're way too lean on that. Did you adjust the idle mixture? What you should be running for that is a 152.5 or 155 main with one or two washers for the white spacer mod. Not sure it's the exact cause of your problems, but it could give you trouble. The two things I can think of are inadequate fuel delivery or extremely inadequate jetting. Straight pipes are trouble-makers, I gather, and they don't really perform better than a good muffler. In fact, to some ways, they perform worse due to exhaust reversion. You can: A. Loosen up the float bowl screw and drain the fuel (or run the engine till it dies) with the petcock off. Then turn it on and catch some in a pint jar; count the seconds after it begins to pour to calculate your fuel rate. B. Change your jetting! AFAIK, your combination probably requires some of the richest jetting of anyone here, apart from those with internal engine mods (The experts here are free to correct me.) C. Do both. :D Easy peasy. :D Technically, the California models have even leaner jetting than stock, though I'm not sure how their pollution control stuff affects their ability to handle that. Nonetheless, you're too lean, and straight pipes are trouble. Get it fixed! |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 05:43:08 Well, I suggested that it was easy. It's simple, but not every part is extremely easy. Here's another thread that should give you some help on changing the main jet and doing the spacer mod. Your idle jet is probably too small to handle that straight pipe and will need to be changed as well. Never done that, so you'll need to look at some other threads for that. Remember to be very careful when installing the main jet. If you screw up, you may need to remove the carb to get everything back in order. For the spacer mod, you'll need some #4 washers, and 5 of them is a good number, though you'll only really need 2 for your purposes. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1460498053/0 |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 05:48:00 Does the bike run better with the enrichment knob "choke" pulled out? This is a simple test to reveal whether or not your bike needs richer jetting. If your engine idle speeds up with the enrichment knob pulled out at all while warm, it could point to either the idle mixture (adjustable to an extent), the needle jet (spacer mod fix), or both. A main jet deficiency is only revealed at or near full throttle. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 05:48:42 Thought it was to lean. The muffler it had on it before was trashed and a straight pipe as well. But had a large holed baffle. I cut it off and welded up a long pipe to give it a better look. really hope the whole process will be fast and reseting everything. Anyone have a write up on the carb spacer and all that. As well as where I can get the specific sized jets you are talking about. So I need a list pretty much. When it comes to motorcycles and carbs. I'm almost useless. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 05:58:36 There are plenty of threads here on this stuff. Just use Google. Check out the link. I showed you. I wrote some on the process myself last night for another fellow who's been having trouble. First you need to buy some stuff, and get it on the way. Use Mikuni brand (other brands are sometimes numbered differently) main jets (152.5 and 155 would be good--no smaller than 150 at the most), a bigger idle jet (55, I guess), and get some #4 washers for the mod. There are some guys on Ebay, like Niche Cycle, who have good deals on Mikuni jets. You can grab them all up and combine shipping, I think. You could also check around the bike shops. Don't discount Harley shops as they fool around with Mikuni carbs as well. You might be able to do some of it without removing the carb. For the idle jet, I don't know. :-/ Removing the carb isn't too tough. I've done it a couple times at least. It can be a little aggravating. It helps to remove the top of the carb and the slide before removing the carb. Remember not to booger up the slide (the rubber diaphragm/cylinder/needle thingy. It's delicate and expensive to replace. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 06:02:29 So the main jet is going to need #155? pilot jet # 55? I didn't buy the last kit that was used. it came with the bike and they appeared to match what was in the carb already |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 06:08:20 It's hard to tell exactly what's in the bike already. Someone else could have rejetted it. If you're cheap, and you don't mind having the bike apart for a while, you could take out the main jet that's in there and see what size it is. That will give you a clue as to whether the mixture has been messed with or not. Can you find the idle mixture adjustment? On new, unmolested bikes, it is actually covered by a brass plug which must be drilled out. If you cannot find the mixture adjustment, that is a clue that the jetting has not been messed with, or messed with properly, at least. ::) I am not an expert. I have never run a straight pipe on my bike. I am giving you numbers based upon my experience reading here. Feel free to look for carb tuning threads here. There are more than one written by several moderators here. It's a BIG topic. What elevation do you live at? The higher you are the smaller (leaner) jetting you will need. Sea level or below sea level will need big rich jetting. Your climactic conditions play a role. Humidity and temperature make a difference. I personally live around 1500 feet elevation (It's mountainous, so it's variable). I run 150 main with 3 washers. The bike runs great, but mpg isn't what it used to be. I have the stock muffler, but plan on installing the Dyna muffler, though. I reckon the Savages from the 80's used a 152.5 main with the stock muffler, but I'm not exactly sure everything else was the same. The carb was approximately the same, with minor differences. One I know of is that the slide did not need the spacer mod because the needle was adjustable. :o ;D ::). Screwed that up for us, didn't you, Suzuki? Anyway, a 155 seems like a good place for a straight pipe and performance air, but I'm not a carb expert. If you want to tune it in, you should get two or three different sizes and test each one. The way to test them is with sustained full throttle at highway speeds. Most people here don't go any bigger than 155, so you could try a 152.5 as well if you want to be conservative. The 55 idle jet is one size larger than stock. Some people can use the stock size, as the mixture is adjustable, to a point. When you need more than 3 turns out on the mixture screw, though, you'll need to go a size larger. Whatever idle jet size which gives you close to 1.5 turns out on the screw at its optimum mixture should be the best size to use. With a bigger jet, you won't need as many turns of the needle. With a smaller one you'll need more. If it's too small, you'll have to turn the needle till it risks falling out. If it's too big, you 'll have to bottom it out to get the right mixture. Neither is good. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 06:24:23 https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=suzuki+savage+carb+tuning+site:suzukisavage.com Check this thread out. It's a good one. It gives a convenient chart on jetting. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1244217127 Serowbot's tuning guide http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277 More information. Pay attention. Some of the jets Lancer sells are for a different carburetor. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 06:41:07 Actually, it looks like the old Savages used 155 mains stock. :-? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 06:47:02 Here's one of the charts from one of the links I posted above. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1244217127 http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/carbguide-1.jpg Looks like I wasn't far off from the chart. From the chart, you'll need anywhere from a 150-155 main with anywhere from 0-2 washers, and you'll probably want the 55 pilot jet. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 06:49:08 I live in charlotte NC. The carb has been messed with by previous owners. The brass cap the covered the enrichment knob has gone. I adjusted it up back by 1/4 turn yesterday and rode and it seemed better and less backfire on deceleration. So I could, in theory get the 152.5-155 jet and 55 jet and set up on step 6 of the diagram? And that should in theory provide a better running bike.? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 06:53:07 Clockwise or counterclockwise? I reckon backfiring and other problems can be caused by both rich or lean conditions. To tune the idle mixture, turn the screw back and forth until you find an area that gives the fastest idle speed. Turning a little too far in each direction will slow the idle slightly. Use these points as a mental marker and set the screw halfway between these markers this should be the right around the optimum mixture-- the sweet spot. Remember-- the needle position area where idle speed is highest and in the middle in that area |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 06:58:17 Counterclockwise... It was maxed clockwise wouldn't turn any further. I edited my last post. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 07:05:16 7F677A7770667A7B242D150 wrote:
Unless it's already got those jets. ;D Your last post is a little iffy. For one thing, be careful and delicate when you bottom out the needle. You could damage it by torquing it. Furthermore, why did you turn it that far? Just didn't know where you were going? Understandable... According to the chart, if it's the stock pilot, you'll need close to three turns out-- quite the opposite of bottomed out. :-? If it's a bigger pilot, by the chart, you won't need many turns out. Does turning it all the way out help? (Don't let the needle fall out and lose it, by the way) |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 04/13/16 at 07:07:55 Since this bike seems to have been down the road as far as mods go I'm going to say you should pull the carb, go over everything...there are lots of helpful links here to get you going. This was the first bike I ever owned and yes, it can be intimidating but it becomes a useful skill to have. Just remember to go slow, document everything (take pics if you want) ensure you can go back to the settings you have now. When I first removed my carb I was freaking out...but after working on lots of carbs now they actually are very simple....first thing to do is find out what size jets are in there and understand what they do. Best advice I can give you is to go slow, change one thing at a time and make sure you can take it back to where you are now. If you decide to pull the carb the first thing I would suggest is to not change anything...just get in there and clean it really good, put it back together and see if it's fixed...could be just a clogged jet but at least you'll know what jets you have at that point. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 07:31:17 How to tell what jets are in it after I pull the carb. Well I will get into it when I get time to. I am friends with the previous owner. I'll try and see if he remembers what size jets he used when we cleaned the carb up. He cleaned it with me before I bought it. I hope it lets me get home from work today. As far as the enrichment screw. I'm probably going to put it back where it was. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 04/13/16 at 07:39:26 The jets are marked...of course i have to use a magnifier to actually see them...lol i'm wondering if you can actually post a picture of the vents/vac port...how did the PO plug the vac port? Did he experience any of the problems you've had? It's good that you know the PO...he may have some insight. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 07:56:20 I can try with pictures again, last attempt didnt work out to well. He used a screw and its all the way down to the head of the screw on the tube, for pluging the Vac line. As far as I know he hasn't hany problems out of it before. Just the really Lean pop that they are known for, and his super shorty exhaust didnt help.( his was just under the seat when it stopped. Its now behind the rear axle. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 08:13:03 I can try with pictures again, last attempt didnt work out to well. He used a screw and its all the way down to the head of the screw on the tube, for pluging the Vac line. As far as I know he hasn't hany problems out of it before. Just the really Lean pop that they are known for, and his super shorty exhaust didnt help.( his was just under the seat when it stopped. Its now behind the rear axle. Went outside to try and start it. It started for a 3second period and shut off. Sounds like the starter isn't catching now. It was very loud and poping |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/16 at 08:20:44 6D666B6F7E606B796C3C3A0E0 wrote:
the old carbs were jetted completely different. while the mains are large, other jets controlled the air/fuel differently. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by chzeckmate on 04/13/16 at 08:22:16 I'm with Bubba. I want more detail on the petcock and the vents/vac...since the problems don't occur when the petcock is in the RES position I'd say that's a pretty good indication it's not a carb issue. I asked this before. I'll ask again. Can you share the link to where you ordered your petcock from? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 08:27:46 I cant do links on cell phone. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Bubba on 04/13/16 at 08:28:30 I know it's a pain but if you have the old petcock...put it on and try it while set to "Prime"...if it runs then you maybe looking at a bad raptor... |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 08:36:51 5E697E7E7D2D2C242F1C0 wrote:
Yeah, ill do that when I can get it home. Its not letting my post pictures of the bike. I've screen shot them trying that way and it still won't upload them. versy, you said the old ones where jetted differently... mines a 96 and now to add to the glory of random shut down... it wont start at all. starter turns, sounds like freely(with no contact to flywheel)?? lights work horn works. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Art Webb on 04/13/16 at 09:11:42 213924292E3824257A734B0 wrote:
do you mean to say the idle mix screw was all the way in? as in can't turn it any more? that sounds like too much pilot jet or the idle wasn't low enough to tune the carb properly |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 09:21:44 7B686E6D7F78781A0 wrote:
do you mean to say the idle mix screw was all the way in? as in can't turn it any more? that sounds like too much pilot jet or the idle wasn't low enough to tune the carb properly[/quote] although im kinda confused on the enrichment screw adjusting. it was tighted in all the way clockwise. couldn't go a hair further in. I did back it out some and rode it. but I never noticed a difference. of where it was and the 1/4 or less turn out (counter clockwise) I gave it. "that sounds like too much pilot jet" this is what im confused on... still reading up about this carb and what each part does what. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 09:22:05 3D2E3938272A2C2E257A4B0 wrote:
the old carbs were jetted completely different. while the mains are large, other jets controlled the air/fuel differently.[/quote] I wondered if there weren't things set differently in the old ones. ::) Maybe my uncertainties were justified. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 09:29:09 7A717C7869777C6E7B2B2D190 wrote:
the old carbs were jetted completely different. while the mains are large, other jets controlled the air/fuel differently.[/quote] I wondered if there weren't things set differently in the old ones. ::) Maybe my uncertainties were justified.[/quote] All more reason to confuse me. haha. The PO said he had issues with the petcock not wanting to let gas flow correctly. other than the regular stuff. oil changes and cleaning air filter etc... Im kinda suspicious that all this happened right near close to when me and the bike went down... maybe the carb got crud in it. but to me that don't explain the random shut down. or the starter not feeling like it caught |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 09:35:12 29312C2126302C2D727B430 wrote:
do you mean to say the idle mix screw was all the way in? as in can't turn it any more? that sounds like too much pilot jet or the idle wasn't low enough to tune the carb properly[/quote] although im kinda confused on the enrichment screw adjusting. it was tighted in all the way clockwise. couldn't go a hair further in. I did back it out some and rode it. but I never noticed a difference. of where it was and the 1/4 or less turn out (counter clockwise) I gave it. "that sounds like too much pilot jet" this is what im confused on... still reading up about this carb and what each part does what.[/quote] That's bad. Don't tighten it that hard. It's delicate. Your pilot jet may be too big, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense with your setup. :-? DO THIS SIMPLE TEST RIGHT NOW! (or when it's convenient). Take the bike out for a spin (if it's rideable) with a reasonable amount of gas in the tank. Does the enrichment knob help to crank it cold? Does pushing it in too early kill the engine? Does it speed up the idle when cold? When hot? Does it run better with the enrichment (choke) knob pulled out when the engine is warm? If so, this is a sign you are lean. HOWEVER, if the engine slows down when the knob is pulled, you are NOT RUNNING LEAN! (At least not for the low throttle settings, especially the idle circuit.) Do any of the experts here dispute this test or my interpretation of it? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 09:43:44 The next easy test to do is to check fuel flow by draining the float bowl with the petcock ON into a pint jar (or whatever you can fit in there. ::)). Count your seconds. It might be more accurate if the float bowl is empty first and start counting only after flow begins. Report back here with pints per minute. This will determine ANY blockages in basic fuel delivery, excluding jets and miscellaneous stuff. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 09:52:24 ill do the test as soon as it makes it home. probably Friday before I can get it back to the house. The Choke knob cold with it out fully starts right up brings idle higher. warm kills engine. as far as the enrichment screw. I didn't tighten it to that point, the PO did. I set it back to just barely hitting all I have to do now is do the draining the float bowl... I think I know how to do that. im sure ive read it already but ill have to go back to be sure... and the bike isn't rideable wont start. starter just turns and turns and turns. (I do not hold the starter long 3-4 sec period at most.) |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/16 at 10:07:46 0A120F0205130F0E5158600 wrote:
does it smell like gas or nothing? Nothing, then stop and pick up some starting fluid. spray some in the intake and if it fires for a couple of seconds then it's a fuel issue. you smell gas, then it's flooded, hold the throttle wide open and run the starter. if it don't pick up in 15 seconds, stop, let the starter cool down for 10 minutes and repeat. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 10:15:55 I find it funny. I read this standing beside the starting fluid/carb cleaner I work for CARQUEST Auto parts... and now it just don't feel like the starter is touching anything. its a fast high whine now. and it used to be slower and sound force-full. It was windy and I have a cold. Can't smell to great. Sorry. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Art Webb on 04/13/16 at 10:22:48 213924292E3824257A734B0 wrote:
The mixture screw enriches as you back it out, leans as you 'tighten' it If the bike runs best with the idle mix screw 3 or more turns OUT, you need bigger jets if the bike runs best (or at all) with the idle mix screw all the way SEATED, you'r over jetted the bike should run best with the screw between 1.5 and 2.5 turns from seated, with the idle set low enough the needle jet isn't in action once the idle mix is right, you then set the idle back up to 1100 rpm or so |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/13/16 at 10:48:32 362E333E392F33326D645C0 wrote:
Well, Savages do have an automatic compression release for starting.... :-/ :-? If you have no compression, I would guess one way to check it is to try to push start it, if you feel fit enough. If it easily locks the rear wheel on the compression stroke, I think you still have compression, especially in 2nd gear. About the choke knob... Does it slow down when the knob is out just one click, or does it take more? It sounds like your jetting is not very lean. There may be another problem. First, make sure there's enough gas coming to the float bowl with that test. As Versy said, get some ether and see if it will fire on that. If not, you are either flooded, or you have a non-fuel-related problem. (I doubt ether will start it flooded, not sure though :-/). |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/13/16 at 12:11:15 The PO did the rolling start test. It stopped with ease. Tried the starter today and yesterday. nothing, although now it feels like its catching the gear and the piston is moving |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/15/16 at 13:46:55 Well, I tore into it at work, in the parking lot. And come to find out I have what me and the mechanics where I work call a very weak spark, ill be ordering a coil for it soon. Also with the raptor fuel petcock in the on/res position. Very minimal fuel is getting into the combustion chamber. Tested that with gas/ether.any tips for tearing into the carb to clean it? Jet, float and all. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/15/16 at 18:41:16 Hmmm... These bikes don't have a lot of electrical problems. A weak battery can cause issues. Are you saying you got it to fire with ether or not? As for cleaning, if you feel like tearing every piece apart and getting out every trace of rubber and plastic out, you could set it in a can of carburetor dip. Or, you could take it off and get some carb cleaner or something and spray it through the orifices. We'll wait and see what the others think. :-/ There's not a huge amount of things to go wrong with these carbs, are there? :-/ Did you check your slide diaphragm for pinholes? These carbs don't seem that delicate. My bike isn't very delicate. It just runs. ;) Did you check the flow to the float bowl like I said? Does this happen intermittently followed by good running? Could the float be sticking closed? Time/measure your fuel flow before you tear into the carb. It's easier. There's a little drain screw in the bottom of the float bowl. Simple. The two inconveniences are the possibility of a sticky screw and managing to get something in there to catch the gas with. If you have a little tube, you may be able to fit it on the drain. Oh, and kudos to Dave for coming up with these ideas. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/15/16 at 19:32:58 I'll be doing the rest of that stuff when I get it back to my house, my work place doesn't like anyone working on things in the parking lot. But I haven't messed with the carb to much. It did try to fire with the ether. It did not run. Also I think my decompression solenoid is going bad. It only moved when it is tapped. When using the starter, very new to this system dont really know how its supposed to work. Other than that the carb stuff should be tomorrow when I get it at the house Also for future reference, I still barely know what jets are:) listing carb part is useless with out a diagram currently. I've been looking to find one, vut I have bought a carb rebuild kit hopefully it'll be the right jetts and all that good stuff. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Kris01 on 04/15/16 at 20:48:16 The jets are just small chunks of brass with a specific size hole drilled in them. The larger the hole, the more fuel that flows through them. Your BBQ grill has the same thing only they're called orifices. ;) |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 06:09:06 Haha. Sounds good. Great, now I'm hungry. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 11:47:51 Tested fuel flow from the bottom of the carb. Its about a cup per minute. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 12:58:39 Carb |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 12:59:05 More carb |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 12:59:36 Lower jets 152.5 and 55 |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 13:00:18 More carb |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 13:00:54 More carb |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 13:03:10 What ever this thing is. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Kris01 on 04/16/16 at 14:53:27 That's the jet needle that controls roughly off-idle to almost full throttle. If you look inside, you'll see a brass plate. Under that plate is the "white spacer" that needs to be made thinner (or use #4 brass washers) to run slightly richer. See the carb rejetting thread for more details. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/16/16 at 17:24:55 Okay. Well in the smaller brass "jet" in this picture, or where it would go. It has no hole through it. It is supposed to be this way? Or should I drill it out some? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Dave on 04/17/16 at 10:09:07 You don't need to make holes where there aren't holes. The only things you need to mess with to adjust the fuel/air mix, is the pilot jet size, the main jet size, and the height of the needle. The float level should also be checked, and the carb cleaned. I would suggest you start with a #150 man jet, a #50 or 52.5 Pilot jet, and 3 washers on the needle (with the needle clip in the center). By starting with what we know works.....you will eliminate having to fool around with something that doesn't work. Some folks with cone filters have had to go a bit bigger on the pilot and/or main.....an open pipe just runs crappy and I am not sure what jetting will help that. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/17/16 at 10:41:24 I posted what was in the carb in an earlier post. I'm pretty sure it is what you said, I just don't know what to do about the washers. And the needle. Took out the needle it only had 3 washers. And the e clip I added a 4th. Cleaned it out. Blew air and carb cleaner in every crevice possible. Going to stick it back on and see how it works Well it still doesn't run. But the battery is now dead. So ill charge it up and see if it was just to dead I'm now thinking that it jumped time... Is there a way to check for sure? Also if it has jumped time how to reset the time? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/20/16 at 18:52:01 Bump. Got a carb rebuild kit. Not put it on yet. I took the carb apart again. And inspected everything possible. I see no reason why its not running, besides the nearly dead battery that is charging now. Again... Anyone got any tips for checking timing? I do not have a service manual. Or know where to get one. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Kris01 on 04/20/16 at 19:25:41 Batteries don't like to be discharged. Are you sure it's still good? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/21/16 at 02:31:55 Not really. I piggy backed it to a bluepoit 1200cca jump box and it turned over and sparks, and sparks with another plug installed. But not running. No combustion at all it seems. Decomp solenoid is working though. Checked fuses all test good |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/21/16 at 12:06:49 Shoot a combustible into the intake. No joy? Pull the plug and see if it's fouled. Twisting the gas was a sure way to keep mine from starting. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/21/16 at 13:02:35 She's got spark, and a can of ether didnt do a darn thing. No thump. Found out my charger was done so still no juice.valves do not move when starter is depressed. Just tested that. Okay, so I pulled the head cover/valve cover, whichever you prefer. Only to find a BROKEN timing CHAIN. So, anyone know where i can get a chain thats not a rip off. I'll be getting the Verslavy tensioner and headplug as soon as I can afford them. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/21/16 at 18:04:17 I'd be taking it apart and checking for damage before I bought parts. Why did it break? I don't remember ever seeing that. And what damage has been done by the crank, being turned by the starter, stirring that pile of chain? I'd think about getting the tank off and giving the bike a vigorous shake, then drain the oil into a clean pan. And I would carefully drain that, maybe through a paint strainer, and hunt for bits of anything. Even run a magnet through it, since a steel chain broke. Eyeball the gears good. If one is burred, smooth it up. I'd expect a chain to break on the front side and , if everything goes right, fall clear of the crank and not mess anything else up... but, What's on your side is, with the bike leaning, the chain could fall and not Find the gear teeth again. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by KennyG on 04/21/16 at 18:44:04 J, Either Verslagen or Lancer are working on obtaining a better cam chain for the forum guys. Check with them. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/16 at 19:39:19 lancer's working on it but I don't think he's had any response from the mfr. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1455475035 |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/21/16 at 20:38:01 756D707D7A6C70712E271F0 wrote:
Last post I can see that says the chain is still one piece. Congratulations on popping a cover and checking out the lifters. I'm not certain that the chain is gone. For all I know there is a potential failure in the starter drive, that can let it spin and not spin the crank. Gonna be interesting... |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/16 at 20:49:22 203825282F3925247B724A0 wrote:
You need to check your valves. Quote:
If you haven't removed the chain, don't do this again. and make sure the cam is at TDC with both lobes off the rockers. Once you have the chain off and the lobes away from the rockers, do a compression test. This will tell the difference between fixing it and digging a hole. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/22/16 at 03:28:08 The chain is out. It was just sitting up top( the broken end. Chain was on the back of the cam. It apparently fell forward, Tank is off. No sound when bike is shaken. I'll be tearing it apart to inspect any further damage. Teeth on cam gear look new. Minimal wear. from what I saw so far and hear. There is no metal grinding or anything moving around in there now. Do I only need to take off the one cover where the cam chain tensioner is? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/22/16 at 03:33:05 3E2127203D3A0B3B0B33212D66540 wrote:
I do not know for sure why it broke. My guess, and only guessing at this moment. Is that the chain doubled up on a gear and snapped it. The break on the chain looks forced and not like a wear. Tearing into it will only tell. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/22/16 at 03:44:15 Also, versy said check my valves, what does this mean? Pull the head and check valves and/ir have head redone? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/22/16 at 08:26:18 2F372A2720362A2B747D450 wrote:
firstly, you can pull the header and intake off and eyeball them. but I did go on to say compression test. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/22/16 at 08:30:28 455D404D4A5C40411E172F0 wrote:
yes, take the clutch cover off, take off the chain and pick up the tensioner pieces. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/22/16 at 17:55:59 Took off the clutch cover. And found an obliterated tensioner. Has holes worn through it, little to no damage to the gear teeth for all gears. Clutch basket has some wear. Pitting and scraps, other wise fine. The oil was partially SILVER. Metal bit and flakes everywhere.... Part of me wants to scrap the engine. But... There are no real integral damages seen. I'll be cleaning out the oil sump filter. As well as a full flush. But on the up side. I think, stress"think", that a timing kit and some good hard flushing, I think shell be back on the road before june Only if deemed safe. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/22/16 at 17:58:31 Filter |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/22/16 at 18:26:32 You saw aluminum. Now, fish for steel. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/23/16 at 05:33:37 Nothing new yet, steel wise. I'll be flushing the motor out with some oil that was given to me(castrol motorcycle oil) |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/16 at 06:27:21 I don't know what I'd do about the oil passageways. I don't even know if they are a threat. Just oil from cranking it, probably not a big deal. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/23/16 at 10:58:06 342B2D2A3730013101392B276C5E0 wrote:
Talking about turning it over during the flush? I was just going to pour 5 qts I got in it. Sloshing it violently and the drain. I figured doing that about 1-2 times should work pretty well. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/16 at 11:11:57 I don't know what oil you got but pouring in 5 qts and sloshing it around will only remove surface stuff. We recommend Rotella T for the general use in the engine. It has good ZDDP and enough detergent to keep the engine pretty darn clean and it's cheap. Put 2 qts in, burn a tank full of gas, then change the oil. repeat if necessary. And I'd put in a magnetic drain plug or add a magnet to the filter. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Kris01 on 04/23/16 at 13:56:22 I think it was Oldfeller that cleaned out an old crusty engine by running Rotella through it and changing the oil sooner than normal. It's made for dirty diesel engines so the detergents in it should have no problems with our little engine. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/23/16 at 19:10:39 Sounds good, I have rotella for regular use anyway. I was just going to put some cheap Castrol through it for a bit to try and catch more of the junk and fragments that are left. Anyone got a link to a timing chain kit? Chain tensioner and guides? I'll be getting a verslavy before 8k more miles. Just need to get this uo for the season, so they wife can have the jeep. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/16 at 19:41:43 I'd probably lay it down and leave it to let crud slide off the bottom of the case. Look at the access. Get creative. Rag, wire. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/23/16 at 20:02:27 Uve peaked my interest, explain? Rag and wire? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/16 at 20:35:54 574F525F584E52530C053D0 wrote:
any oem store will have the cam chain, adjuster and guides. btw, the front guide rarely sees much wear. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/16 at 22:09:05 Build a mop. Tiny, but, it's a mop. Reach a rag into places your hand won't go. I have a couple out in the shop. You can get more crud outta the engine if you decide to. A long screwdriver, lean the bike over, let stuff slide to you. It's a problem. You can mindlessly dump oil in or look at the problem and be challenged mentally and think through the problem. Solve the problem. Got a compressor? How much crushed aluminum is laying on the bottom of the crankcase? As far as I know, you're the only one who has ever seen this problem. I can't see the oil. I'm shooting in the dark. A picture or good description of the mess would help. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/25/16 at 03:31:15 The actual arm of the tensioner was so ground down, there it aluminum fragments everywhere. I'm think I'm going to have to take off both side covers and buy a compressor and shoot air and brake clean(or somthing safe and fast evaporating) to help get it all out. I've been using red shop rags on an extended tire plug clamp to get some out and moved toward the drain plug hole... Well I guess we will see how clean I can get it l, and them start ordering parts, I hope I can remember how to put it all back together. I have two decent sized springs that I dont remember taking off... As far as I know I am the only person who's experienced this, I did some research and can't find anything on this happening.but life is a learning experience. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/25/16 at 05:24:53 but life is a learning experience So true, right up until you get to learn how to die. I'm down with the idea of popping the other side off. And laying it down and flushing. If you get a little compressor, the One rule is, as soon as it kicks in, stop using air. I've heard so many people whine about them crapping out. The duty cycle of the motor is important. I had a cheap thirty gallon two hundred dollar one for several years. It just took so long to air up a tire. But, by stopping when it kicks in, it lasts.. I have a Big compressor now. It will catch up to any of my tools except for the air chisel. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/25/16 at 06:30:32 584741465B5C6D5D6D55474B00320 wrote:
I had a 2.5 gallon and it was barely enough to use my impact wrench on a single lug. When I get another ill be getting a 30 gallon. What compressor are you using now? I'd like to get one I know will last and be efficient with the air tools i have. Ingersol Rand impact, an air ratchet, small paint gun. as far as pictures fo for the mess the engine has. It seems to be fairly was to clean after the other side is taken off. Just hope I can get by with just a 400$ fix, thats the cheapest I can find a chain, tensioner, guides, and a new tensioner clip. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/25/16 at 06:54:25 The compressor I have would probably be equalled by any 50 gallon, single stage two cylinder , 240 volt from Lowe's. I went to a compressor repair and sales outfit near Tyler. Had it about five years now. Wife says we paid six hundred, I believe her. The guy said we got the last one available with that quality of valves. Ring, valves, motor.. if one of those is crap, well.. I poured a small pad of cement, with bolts poking up,set it, plumbed it, built a roof over it. If it needs moved, I'm screwed. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/25/16 at 08:03:17 I hear ya. sounds like itd be a PITA to get in and out of there. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/25/16 at 11:09:33 Ohh yeah, the backhoe set it. Can't get in there now. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/25/16 at 16:45:44 Dang, speaking of tough situations my friends ducati litre bike fell at my house, he parked it in oil and on a oily rag. He wasn't mad. But my little 100lbs butt had to pick it up. Talk about PITA |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Suzukisavvy on 04/27/16 at 12:52:17 Wait do did you dump the whole bike over? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/16 at 13:05:38 If I had chunks of and pulverized aluminum in the crankcase I'd be opening both sides and flushing, with it laying flat. Before I did that I'd go to the oil galley access up on the front of the jug, open and shove something in. I would think diesel would make a decent flush. If you have a compressor and a propane torch, you can modify a blower. A piece of 1/8" brass tubing about a foot long will get in places better than anything you've seen. And by putting a hole in the wall of a piece of 1/4" tubing and poking the blower tip into it and turning it and shoving it down the tubing a few inches, it will create flow, and one end can go in a gas can with diesel in it, the other will blast diesel out. Look up Wash down gun But, why spend money? A propane bottle is eight bucks and the tip is about ten. Well, it's been a while, so, go to the hardware store and see if you are interested. Hobby shops have the tubing. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by gizzo on 04/27/16 at 17:05:05 If you dump it on it's side, might be a good idea to empty or remove the fuel tank and take the battery out. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/27/16 at 17:11:56 Tanks already off, battery can be out in a snap. So lay it on its side and use air and oil ? What's the diesel for? |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by gizzo on 04/27/16 at 17:49:40 It's a good cleaning fluid. Read what JoG wrote. He described making a venturi to blast diesel fuel thorugh the engine with compressed air to clean it out. It's good advice. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/16 at 18:28:25 Diesel is heavy enough to grab junk, light enough to blast out the improvised wash down gun, cheap enough to be able to afford it. Catch it if you can. Pour it through a filter, run it again. It's not gonna choke you out, like brake parts cleaner. And, it's three bucks a gallon, not five bucks for twelve ounces. Study the problem, devise an approach. Remember, not all of life's problems were discussed in school. I made my living solving problems that weren't in any books. I solved the problem one day, the casing broke off, and the engineers designed a tool to pull it up. It broke, they tried again, it broke, I walked over, drew a design in the dirt, the welder built i t, it worked.. If nobody was ever smarter than their teacher, society would never have advanced. Don't allow Them to tell You that You can't Do what They didn't Teach you How to do. Study the Problem Devise an approach |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by jrobeson18 on 04/28/16 at 03:13:16 Ahh, okay starting to make sense. I'll get on the mop thing and set it on its side, with some help. When I get a chance l, ill start pulling the left cover. I havnt been able to get to working on the bike. Daughters been sick(10mnths old) but I'll get back to it asap. |
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Title: Re: so i locked my rear tire Post by Suzukisavvy on 04/29/16 at 08:56:41 PLUS its nonflammable too |
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