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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1457468532 Message started by wcemt83 on 03/08/16 at 12:22:12 |
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Title: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by wcemt83 on 03/08/16 at 12:22:12 I did the Harley Dyna swap and rejetted 150 main 52.5 pilot air mixture 2 turns out get this orange flaming on decel header checked no leaks does have a slight leak at the connection not too bad used tin can and heavy duty t clamp any ideas on what's causing it also small puff of black smoke when revving engine |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Serowbot on 03/08/16 at 12:37:46 Do you have a Raptor petcock?... (Symptoms sound like your Pet could be leaking)... Is your muffler de-baffled?... (before you installed,.. could you see all the way though it?)... What is your elevation?... (the 52.5 pilot may be overly rich)... |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by wcemt83 on 03/08/16 at 12:40:22 Yeah I have the raptor petcock the pilot is stock I only changed the main jet my elevation here in ky is 600' here is a video of it https://youtu.be/tt4t4dcpddI |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by wcemt83 on 03/08/16 at 12:41:57 Forgot to add the Dyna muffler is stock still has the baffles |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Dave on 03/08/16 at 13:23:46 Where does the orange flame come from....out the exhaust? If you have a 47.5 pilot...most likely a 50 or 52.5 pilot will help. Air screws set at "2 turns out" is the way you begin to tune your bike, you then need to actually adjust your mixture screw....it is a living breathing thing and the setting needs to be dialed in for each bike. When you are doing the adjustment the bike needs to be fully warmed up, and if the smoothest engine speed is more than 2.5 turns out you need a larger pilot jet.....and if you can turn your mixture screw all the way in and the motor isn't starting to act up...you need a smaller pilot jet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g Also.....the Savage is a bit primitive in design and it needs more love and attention than a modern fuel injected computer controlled motorcycle. You need to learn how to do what the computer does for you on the fuel injected bike. When you are shifting or slowing down - don't just chop the throttle and let it close completely. When you hear the popping and banging while slowing down....just roll on a tiny amount of throttle until the noise stops. Don't add a lot of throttle....you can add a little bit and reduce the noise with making the bike accelerate. You may need a bit more brake as you could be doing less compression braking. Same thing when shifting - don't close the throttle all the way....leave it open about 1/16 or 1/8th turn as you pull in the clutch. The popping and backfiring is a result of the mixture going really lean when you close the throttle. The slide drops and closes off the main jet - so the only fuel that can flow through the carb is coming out the pilot jet circuit....and that just isn't enough fuel for an engine that is turning much faster than idle speed. So the really lean fuel mixture can't get ignited by the spark plug - but it does ignite in the hot exhaust system and creates the "bang" and yellow flame out the tail pipe. (The stock muffler is very good at masking these events, and when you put on a more free flowing muffler - the popping and banging becomes far more noticeable. |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by wcemt83 on 03/08/16 at 13:52:07 Yeah Dave it comes out of the muffler on decel I have 52.5 pilot and 150 main airscrew right now is 2 turns out bike sounds great and has good power just backfiring and flaming out the end of the muffler not even a hiccup in the throttle all problems are just in the decel I posted a link above to the YouTube video of my bike running with the flames coming out |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Serowbot on 03/08/16 at 17:39:47 I'd drop down to a #50 pilot... that flame and puff of black smoke is unspent fuel firing off in the pipe... It sounds pretty nice with the new muffy... 8-) ..you might also check your air filter... clogged air filter will make you overly rich too... |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by wcemt83 on 03/08/16 at 19:11:27 Thanks I'll try the pilot I love the Dyna muffler sound also just checked and my idle air screw was out 2 1/2 turns set it to 1.5 turns no more black smoke or flames but i haven't got to ride it to make sure. Will the needle spacer mod lean it or richer it? |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Art Webb on 03/08/16 at 20:58:33 the white spacer mod will richen it in transition and and part throttle If your bike surges during low RPM low speed riding it needs the white spacer mod |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Kris01 on 03/09/16 at 17:24:49 The white spacer mod will make the biggest difference. You spend most of your riding time off idle but less than WOT where the needle jet/jet needle are working the hardest. The white spacer controls how much fuel flows through the needle jet. |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by wcemt83 on 03/11/16 at 09:09:33 Well I did the white spacer mod checked for exhaust leaks still getting a lot of backfiring on decel I checked the spark plug last night it was a tanish color not black at all like I thought it would be can't figure out if I'm too lean or too rich still have stock pilot jet don't know if I should go up or down |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Dave on 03/11/16 at 09:21:54 5A4E484059151E2D0 wrote:
If you are allowing the throttle to close completely when you are slowing down.....you will get popping and banging out the muffler (the stock muffler is very good at masking this noise - the DYNA is not). It is the nature of a big single with a carb - the fuel mixture goes very lean when the throttle is closed. Suzuki tried to correct this by using a carb with a TEV valve - but it just doesn't work well enough with E10 fuel....it most likely is more effective with Pure Gas that doesn't have ethanol in it. Maybe your TEV valve needs to be cleaned or the spring/diaphragm are not working properly - but I suspect you just need to learn how use your throttle to tame the noise down. You should jet your carb so that the engine runs smoothly when you are accelerating or cruising - the carb should not be jetted for what it does when coasting with a closed throttle. To make the bike backfire less, you need to roll a small amount of throttle on as you are shifting gears or slowing down - don't close the throttle completely. You have to learn how to apply the brake while keeping your throttle hand working the throttle while you apply the front brake. It makes a lot of difference in the noise the bike makes. Yo |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by wcemt83 on 03/11/16 at 16:11:07 Talked to a buddy of mine that works for Suzuki he said to take the decel valve off and cut 10 mm of the spring off and that usuall corrects the problem he said Suzuki techs came down and done some training with him and they told him that usually correct the problem so he said he does it on all s40s that come in for carb problems so I tried it today sure enough really cut down on the backfiring issue actually made it run a little better now put about 40 miles on it today I could really tell a difference |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by KennyG on 03/11/16 at 16:21:30 83, I really spent a lot of time fooling with springs for the Transient Enrichment Valve and could completely eliminate the after firing. The problem that persisted, and I never found a work around, was when I shut the throttle off the RPMs would dip below 900 and the engine would stall when I was down shifting. A couple of times it stalled at low speed gong around a traffic circle and got scary. If you are not experiencing this problem I will try working on it again. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Kris01 on 03/11/16 at 18:18:31 6571777F662A21120 wrote:
Sounds iffy. I don't think I'll trust junk science and hearsay. The Transient Enrichment valve spring and cutting have been "iffy". Some folks have luck....others don't, One fellow listed a automotive carb spring for a accelerator pump that was supposed to be a bit softer spring and work better. |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by norm92de on 03/12/16 at 14:04:27 Buy a new spring, just in case, then cut the 10mm off. If it doesn't work what is the cost of a spring? Also a good opportunity to put Allen head screws on the carb. ;D |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Dave on 03/13/16 at 12:36:58 Some folks have had luck when fooling around with the TEV spring, others have not. There are about 4 threads in the Tech Section about the TEV. One fellow used a spring from an automotive accelerator pump that is a bit softer spring, and he claimed it helped. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1268545171 |
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Title: Re: Need help can't figure it out Harley Dyna swap Post by Serowbot on 03/13/16 at 17:54:00 I like the pops and blats,.. let's people know I'm coming... 8-) |
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