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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Stuck Slide? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1457039317 Message started by Ed L. on 03/03/16 at 13:08:37 |
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Title: Stuck Slide? Post by Ed L. on 03/03/16 at 13:08:37 Been working on the boat and trailer and let the scoot slide for a few months. Now at the beginning of Bike Week I decided to fire it up. Of course my life time contract with Murphy came into effect and the bike will fire up with the choke out but stalls as soon as the choke gets pushed in even a little bit. I've already dropped the bowl and cleaned the main jet with no change. I've a raptor in place so it's not the fuel valve, I'm guessing it's a stuck slide in the carb. Any thoughts? The bike ran fine before sitting, I've changed the gas and dumped some Seafoam into the tank. The bike starts right up but shuts off when the choke or throttle is moved. Anything else I should be checking when in the carb? Thanks |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by verslagen1 on 03/03/16 at 13:16:28 stuck slide only affect throttle change not choke settings. and... you've cleaned out the main when you should've done the pilot. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Ed L. on 03/03/16 at 13:30:25 good enough, I'll pull the bowl again and check the pilot jet. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Dave on 03/03/16 at 14:10:14 Yep, most likely it is the pilot jet. They have tiny holes, and they sit a bit higher than the main jet......so as the fuel starts to evaporate and leave gunk and corrosion behind, the pilot jet is the first place to get clogged up. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Ed L. on 03/03/16 at 15:23:52 The bowl had some crud in it and the float had a bathtub line of the same stuff, chalk another one up to ethanol gas. Going to get the mirror out and do the job without pulling the carb. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by verslagen1 on 03/03/16 at 15:49:24 loosen the hose clamps and you can twist it towards you. and it'll go 90° if you take the top off. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by smokin_blue on 03/03/16 at 17:04:02 cleaning just the pilot jet may or may not take care of it. It is a good place to start. If it works you are done. If it doesn't work then what you have to do is pull the carb and spray carb spray in where the pilot jet was as well as the air ports in the front of the bellmouth. When you do that hold the butterfly open and watch for a squirt of spray to come up in the throat of the carb right where the butterfly touches the bottom of the throat. There is a small hole (or holes, I don't remember how many this carb has) that feed fuel through to the throat when the butterfly is at very small openings. When that circuit is clean you will see a small amount of spray come out of the hole(s). If that circuit is plugged it will still not run right. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Dave on 03/04/16 at 03:58:14 OK.....so this is another opportunity for me to show folks how obsessed I am with the crappy new fuel. In hopes of avoiding the corrosion and carb gumming that can occur, I shut the petcock off before I get home. I shut the fuel off when I reach the intersection at the bottom of the hill (about a mile from my house), and as I round the corner toward my driveway I can feel the bike begin to surge a bit, and by the time I pull in my drive and pull in the clutch, the bikes dies. This method removes most of the fuel from the float bowl - so if you happen to have a string of bad weather or get busy at work......and don't get to ride for a while.....there is little fuel in your carb to go bad and start to plug things up. The pilot jet doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the float bowl and there will still be a little fuel in there - but there will be a whole lot less and so far it has prevented any fuel problems related to a short storage period. I don't do this while I am out riding - only on the way home when the ride is over. It will take you a few tries to find a landmark near your home that is far enough away to allow the fuel to be used up by the time you reach home. I am lucky that I have a driveway that is a pretty steep downward grade - so when the bike runs out of fuel I can just coast into the garage. The slight bit of lean running is not harmful to the bike, as it is at low speed and only lasts a few seconds. (If your carb has a drain screw on the bottom of the float bowl - draining the carb before storage is the best way to go). |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Ed L. on 03/04/16 at 06:10:09 Dave, I'm starting to think that draining the bowl for storage is the way to go. Really getting tired of the crappy ethanol gas out there. Oh well live and learn. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Dave on 03/04/16 at 06:28:36 The ethanol fuel does OK in modern fuel injected systems. They are sealed up systems and not vented to the atmosphere like a carb with a float bowl is. Things like lawn mowers, motorcycles with carbs....any kind of carb where there is gas sitting stagnant in a vented float bowl is subject to the damage the ethanol can cause. The issue is that the gasoline portion of the fuel evaporates - and it leaves behind the ethanol in high concentration, and that causes corrosion to aluminum parts and dissolves some rubber parts. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by oldNslow on 03/04/16 at 06:59:59 Yep. Ever since I located a convenient station that sells 93 octane ethanol free fuel that's what goes in everything except the cars. It costs more, but even with a snoblower, generator, and two mowers I don't buy enough so it really matters, compared to the amount that goes in the cars. As far as the bike goes, I'll run the 87 octane 10% ethanol stuff in it when I'm riding it every day, but when I store it for the winter the tank gets filled with pure gasoline. I know that none of this stuff needs 93 octane fuel but it doesn't seem to hurt anything. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Dave on 03/04/16 at 07:38:20 High octane won't hurt it.....but like you say it really isn't going to perform any better in a low compression engine. The supply of ethanol free fuel in this area is a bit weak, and I have to drive on a 3 hour round trip to get fuel from the Countrymark COOP in Liberty, Indiana. I haul a 55 gallon drum (or 2) and buy the fuel for the chainsaws and mowers....it is rated at 91 octane. It has the smell and yellow color of the gasoline I remember from my youth. I add StaBil, and with it sealed up in the drums I can use it for 2 years and it still runs fine. There are supposed to be a few marinas in the area that carry ethanol free fuel.....it is very seasonal and I have not yet gone to see if I can get my fuel cans (or drums) near to the pumps. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by oldNslow on 03/04/16 at 09:33:54 The stuff I'm buying is actually 91, not 93. Brain cramp :-[ It's a Fastrac station. All the local ones now have ethanol free 91. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by gizzo on 03/04/16 at 12:14:26 We don't have ethanol forced on us here and I never use it, but I still drain the bowl via the drain screw per Dave's description if I'm not riding it for a while. Hasn't done any harm... |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Ed L. on 03/04/16 at 13:39:44 There are a few gas stations in the area that offer ethanol free gas, don't know ther octane but the stuff is very popular with the boating crowd in Daytona Beach and Ponce Inlet. Haven't started using it for my boat yet which is powered by a 23 year old Nissan 70hp two stroke but should. I've been using Sea Foam as an additive for the boat and keep the gas fresh. Getting back to the bike, I pulled the carb and removed the pilot jet and gave ev erything a good blasting with carb cleaner but the problem is still there. I got a little rough on it and was able to get the engine running at over 3500rpm but as soon as the rpms dropped below 3000 it would shut off with a lot of pops and crackles. The bike still runs at idle with the choke all the way out but as soon as I move the throttle or choke it shuts off. Had to walk away from it, wasn't getting anywhere, didn't want to break anything and decided to get back on it tomorrow. I'l pull the carb again and give it a complete cleaning, didn't pull the slide this time around, any ideas as to what to look for? I might drop down a jet size from a 155 main to 152.5 and go back to the stock pilot jet which is what was in the carb before and ran well with the stage one cam. I'm a bit puzzled with this one. Thanks for all the help so far guys ;) |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Kris01 on 03/04/16 at 20:52:39 [quote author=427C7D71637F7E100 link=1457039317/0#12 date=1457112834]The stuff I'm buying is actually 91, not 93. Brain cramp :-[/quote] Is it not available in 87 octane? |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Steve H on 03/05/16 at 06:38:18 The only ethanol free we have around here is 87 but it is at about half the stations so it's not a problem to find. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by smokin_blue on 03/05/16 at 07:23:32 I am totally on board with Dave. I do a combination of all of those things. If you can find ethanol free (around here they call it Non-Oxy) and is only legal in small engines, off road and collector vehicles and motorcycles. That stuff is the best because it is the closest you can get to the old good stuff. it is usually 91 or 92 octane. it has become very common in the last 2 years. Then depending on the engine and the amount of use I run the carb dry. All lawnmowers and snowblowers are run dry every time. My two stroke bikes I would as lean running is death to one of those and depending on the 4 stroke bike and the amount I ride I may or may not run it dry. It has been documented that todays gas is only supposed to be stored for less than 3 weeks and I think I have even seen 2 weeks. (that is not talking about carbs but general gas can storage and use. Kind of tells you how bad it is. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Art Webb on 03/05/16 at 08:03:30 My yard isn't big enough to run my mower dry, so i just run it once in a while, even in winter ;D here in my area, pure gas is only available at one source, and they're understandably high priced, so i either ride at least every 2 weeks (at least 10 miles) or drain the carb, or I did, with my S40 |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by norm92de on 03/05/16 at 13:18:34 Has anybody tried Avgas in a savage? It doesn't deteriorate like auto gas. However it does cost more. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Dave on 03/06/16 at 03:32:15 37362B34606B3D3C590 wrote:
Yes, I have used Avgas 100LL in my chainsaws and yard equipment for a year before I found a source for ethanol free fuel. The Avgas has lead in it, and the LL stands for Low Lead....which is misleading. The 100LL has about 2 grams of lead per liter, and that is as much lead as the Premium auto fuels ever had. The LL comes from the fact that some high performance aviation fuels used to have 2-3 times that amount....the kind of fuel they use in the piston engines of the WW2 fighter planes. The big problem with Avgas is that it s not really "gasoline" - but is blended from pretrochemicals. This is great as the Avgas never deteriorates and when it evaporates - it doesn't corrode anything or leave any varnish behind. The bad thing is that it runs too rich in an engine adjusted for pump gas.....so to run properly you need to rejet the engine to run Avgas properly - then if you put in pumpgas the engine will be running too lean. I keep a 5 gallon can of Avgas, and when I am going put some of my equipment away for the winter. Some of my equipment can't be drained of fuel easily - so I pump the pump gas out of the tank and add a small amount of Avgas in the tank....and then run the engine long enough to get the Avgas into the carbs (I dump the fuel in the tanks and run the mower and chainsaws out of fuel). The Honda ST1100 has a fuel pump, and the carbs are impossible to get to the drains - so I empty the tank of pump gas, then I add the Avgas and run the bike until I can smell the Avgas coming out the exhaust (ride around the block), then I disconnect the fuel pump and run the engine until the engine stops when the carbs are empty). I keep a small amount of Avgas in my generator so that it will always run in an emergency - but switch over to pump gas as the generator is put into long-term service. We had a power outage that lasted 3 days a few years ago! |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Art Webb on 03/06/16 at 09:08:29 That about the AvGas explains something to me When I had my rebel, it ran pretty bad on pump gas, lean surge, needed forever to warm up, etc Using AvGas, it would light off with zero choke, run with no signs of leanness, and got better gas mileage (not enough to make up the price difference, but better) and a better top speed as well My S40 OTOH, did not like it, no better MPG, no more top end, only a slight improvement in transition Thanks Dave,. I learned at least one thing today, life is good |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by norm92de on 03/06/16 at 13:49:49 I remember running a Yamaha two stroke on Avgas years ago. It didn't need warm up at all and seemed to run better. I didn't check fuel consumption because I got the gas free. ;D I may try a tank or two in the Suzuki since it is set up lean from the factory anyway. I hate ethanol I have seen what it can do to fuel systems. To say nothing of Lear Jet windshields. We set up an old Lear windshield and put ethanol on the surface. It ate the plastic up! And that is what we used to keep ice off it. However, the slipstream prevented damage but you had to make sure there were no dribbles etc. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by hotprops on 03/06/16 at 15:12:31 100LL is all i run in all my toys .the trick for using it is adding 1 gal of boat/rec gas to 4 gal LL i found this out during hurricane charley.my genny would not start my well pump until i learned that it is lower in btu,s and is not 100 octain ,more like 89 if the same method of testing car gas is used .the s40 loves it and the ton of lead is great for the valves/seats. . |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Dave on 03/07/16 at 07:07:19 Just for those folks who like to "know". Avgas 100LL is 70% Alkylate, 15% Isopentane and 15% Toluene. There are also additives that include Lead for Knock resistance, a blue dye to identify that it is 100LL (other grades are died green or red), Antioxidants to help keep the fuel fresh and reduce corrosion, and Scavenging additives to help reduce the lead fowling of spark plugs and combustion chambers. I used Avgas 100LL in my chainsaws for a year when I couldn't find a good source of ethanol free fuel. The saws were adjusted to run on pump gas - and when I switched over to Avgas the saws would run too rich and dropped about 1,000 rpm at full throttle....once the carb was leaned out they ran fine...although I don't believe they ran as well as they do on pump gas even after the adjustment. Now I just use "fresh" pump gas and make sure it is never more than a couple months old. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Ed L. on 03/07/16 at 13:31:23 Finally got the carb back out and torn down a second time. Ended up finding a vacumn leak, guess epoxy did not work that well sealing the screw I used to plug the port that ran the petc0cok and what everybody said to look for, a plugged pilot jet. Dropped my main down from a 155 to a 152.5 just because it seemed a little rich and I was in there already. The bike started right up and is running great. ;D Life just got better. |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Dave on 03/07/16 at 13:39:22 46675C4F2D030 wrote:
So.....you are riding to Daytona! |
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Title: Re: Stuck Slide? Post by Ed L. on 03/07/16 at 15:25:46 Yes I'm riding to Daytona!!!! Main Street, Destination Daytona in Ormond and Cabbage Patch are on the list. There's also Beach Street, the speedway where you can get factory rides all day long, Deland and a whole lot more to see. weather is going to be great all week, life's good ;) Just realized that the 155 main helped mask the vacumn leak over the last year of riding. I was getting a lot of pops and crackles along with a deep blue pipe, all a sign of a lean condition which i thought was caused by the stage one cam installed with the rejet. Instead it was the vacumn leak getting worse. I bet the scoot will really kick it now. |
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