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Message started by scubachef on 03/02/16 at 00:37:24

Title: Bike won't start
Post by scubachef on 03/02/16 at 00:37:24

im at wits end to figure out why my bike won't start. Tried to take it to a shop and they declined since it is not stock... :(

The best way I can describe what happens is it seems like the starter turns but the motor isn't trying to turn over. Battery is charged, starter is turning hard but then stops after a few seconds ( is that normal),I drained the oil and checked engagement of the starter gears, tested the starter solinoid, tested the coil, I've got spark, I've got fuel....the bike ran great before being garaged for work done on the rest of the bike. I can't see any damaged wires, the grounds are good and clean, decomp solinoid is working, the motor turns freely by hand with a breaker bar.

There is a large gear behind the stator/rotor, if I accidentally moved it a tooth or two at some point would that throw off the timing? How does one set timing on our bike, could I have inadvertently done something to timing and that is my issue?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by Dave on 03/02/16 at 03:46:37

6070667172707B7675130 wrote:

The best way I can describe what happens is it seems like the starter turns but the motor isn't trying to turn over.

That description always makes it hard for me to understand what is going on. A lot of folks us the term "won't turn over" when the engine won't start and run - but the engine is rotating (turning over).

So.....if you turn on your key and hit the starter button....you hear a click as the decompression solenoid engages, then a split second later the starter engages....and the engine rotates but it does not start and run. The engine is not locked up, and you can hear the engine rotating and coming up on compression?

How do you know the bike has spark? If you have a weak battery, it is possible that the starter current is drawing the voltage down enough that it does not spark. When you remove the plug and set it on the block to check for spark, the starter motor is not fighting the compression and there may be enough voltage that you get a visible spark - but not when the plug is in the engine.

How old is the battery? Have you checked the voltage before you hit the starter button.....and also while the starter is working?

Have you tried jumping the starter with a car batttery (car not running) to see if it will start?

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by Dave on 03/02/16 at 03:49:22

4F5F495E5D5F54595A3C0 wrote:

Battery is charged, starter is turning hard but then stops after a few seconds ( is that normal)

No....if you hear a clicking sound when the starter motor stops, that is an indication your battery is down on voltage and cannot energize the starter solenoid.

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by scubachef on 03/02/16 at 08:46:19

Whe I say "won't turn over" I mean I don't hear the engine trying to move in its stroke, not that it won't fire, but it seems nothing is happening. Battery is new, charged to 12.9v and I've tried a car battery with no difference. I replaced the starter, no difference, when the starter stops there is no clicking, it just stops. I'm going to try and videotape it to make sure I'm accurately describing the situation.

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by oldNslow on 03/02/16 at 09:44:23

Quote:

starter is turning hard but then stops after a few seconds

Quote:

There is a large gear behind the stator/rotor,..

You had the stator cover off, and were working in there ?

Look at the picture in the 10th post in this thread. Make sure you didn't put the washer on the wrong shaft when you put the stator cover back on. That will bind up the starter.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288911670/15

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by Dave on 03/02/16 at 15:57:53

Yep.....I agree with oldNslow. You likely have the washer in the wrong place.

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by scubachef on 03/02/16 at 21:13:34

That is possible. I'm extremely hopeful that is the fix.....if this bike runs after this I owe you both beers if your ever in my neck of the woods.

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by scubachef on 03/04/16 at 13:55:59

OldNslow was correct. I'd been looking at the Clymers which shows a different gear set up than I have. There was no washer pictured so I had it behind the first gear figuring that was its place since the manual doesn't show it. Thanks for solving that problem for me!

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by springman on 03/04/16 at 14:45:16

Oldnslow, Dave, I have nothing to contribute here, I just happened to read this. I have to admit that I was thoroughly impressed with how you diagnosed the problem, knew the solution and were able to relay the fix in an easy to understand manner. You guys deserve a beer. :)

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by oldNslow on 03/04/16 at 17:18:56

scubachef,

Thank you for following up and letting us know what solved the problem. Not everyone does. Sometimes these threads just sort of die, and no one knows if the bike got fixed or not, or, in a case where there were multiple suggestions, which one actually worked. Someone is likely to stumble across this thread who has a similar no-start issue, and without your follow up, still might not know what the solution was.

About the washer. A while back I took my stator cover off because the clear coat was coming off and the aluminum was turning black in places. When I pulled the cover off the washer in question was stuck to the inside of the cover. I set it on my workbench with the screws from the cover.

After stripping, polishing. and respraying the cover with clearcoat a week had gone by, and when I went to put the cover back on I realized that I didn't know which shaft the washer was supposed to be on. After kicking myself in the a** for not paying attention when I took the cover off, I went and got my Clymers. No help. I sat and stared at the two shafts for a good long time. I finally concluded that there probably wasn't any need for a washer on the smooth shaft, but that it likely belonged on the shaft with the splines and the snap ring, probably to protect the case. So that's where I put it. I put the bike back together, turned out the lights in the garage and went in the house.

But I couldn't quit worrying about that doggone washer. What if it didn't belong where I put it.

I sat down at my computer and rummaged around in the tech section until I finally stumbled across the picture that I sent you the link to. I don't even remember now what made me look there. Maybe because the thread was about the starter clutch. When I saw the picture showing where the washer belonged, I breathed a huge sigh of relief. That's also how I learned that putting the washer on the wrong shaft could cause the bike not to start.

The old timers on this site, and I'm not one of them, I've only been around for a few years, deserve all the credit. The tech section is a graduate level dissertation on the secrets of these bikes.

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by Kris01 on 03/04/16 at 21:02:44

Is this the left (belt) side of the engine? I'm getting close to needing to check my tensioner. If this is the right (exhaust) side, I don't want to screw this up! ;D

http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Starter%20Clutch%20Upgrade/washer-location.jpg

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by scubachef on 03/04/16 at 22:19:33

The picture is of the belt side. You will be removing the other cover. You won't deal with these gears. You're safe! :)

Title: Re: Bike won't start
Post by scubachef on 03/04/16 at 22:34:49

Thanks again oldNslow. I checked these gears twice before but didn't move the washer. I pulled the cover, checked the starter clutch, looked for damage to the gears, checked that everything was engaged and moving freely, then buttoned it up with the washer in the wrong spot! The manual was actually a hindrance in this case since it didn't show a pic of what is in our bikes. This last time I found that the first thin gear within the clutch pack had moved and the gears were not meshing anymore. I took the snap ring off and reset everything....don't do that. Getting that snap ring back on was a chore. I had to fab up a small tool to compress the pack so i could get the ring back in. :(. I only took the cover off because the bike fell off the jack and hit a jack stand I had next to it punching a hole in the case. I took it off to weld up the hole and when I did the first gear came off with it and the washer came off. I thought the washer came off the smooth shaft since it fell out with that shaft and gear.

This all began with the bike melting the case of my battery (yes you read that correctly) and heating up the positive and negative. I took apart the whole wiring harness, rebuilt the starter thinking it was weak and power was kicking back to the battery and that was the heat issue, I traced every cause I could think of....even those gears but Clymers assured me there wasn't a washer on that spined shaft >:(. I'm sure glad to finally have it figured out. Many thanks again.