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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1454554773 Message started by SavageCounsel on 02/03/16 at 18:59:33 |
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Title: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/03/16 at 18:59:33 All, I have an 86 Savage. I have owned it for a decade. It was a daily rider about 8 years ago. I am dusting her off and want to get her running again. When I parked the bike I was having some major issues that I want to address before I start putting some more miles on. The bike always backfired when turning it off and occasionally at low idles. It backfired a lot if I had not run it in a while until I cleared it out. What was more concerning were two other issues. Before I parked it more permanently I seemed to be leaking and flooding the spark plug. Towards the end of being a daily rider I was checking the oil and having to swap out for a new spark plug unless I ran it everyday. It began to get expensive. I was also getting a lot of vibration while I was riding and the engine sounded louder. I decided to park it. I would get it running again every couple years. All I had to do was purchase a new battery (I did not have a trickle charger). And of course I had to change the spark plug. Any ideas of what this problem could be and what I should purchase and fix before I run it again for extended periods of time? I know I will need a new battery and spark plug. What combo should I get? Thank you for your time and input and thank you for letting me a part of the forum. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Kris01 on 02/03/16 at 19:27:59 Quote:
Normal. Factory jetting is lean and contributes to this. Search this site for carb rejetting. Lancer is the man you want to talk to about carb upgrades. So the plug was covered with oil around the electrode side or outside? There is a common plug leak (not spark plug) on the outside of the engine with this bike. Search "plug leak". |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/03/16 at 19:33:36 It was on the electrode side. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/03/16 at 19:49:48 What's the mileage? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/03/16 at 19:53:41 Odometer was disconnected when I purchased it. It reads 14 thousand. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/04/16 at 03:19:50 If you are getting an oily electrode - it is burning oil for some reason. It could be the rings/cylinder is worn, it could be that when somebody had the head off they didn't put that wadded up screen back in the cylinder head cover and too much oil is getting into the vent hose and into the air box. If is not normal to have an oily spark plug on this bike. You should check all your engine mount bolts to see if they are tight - that can allow the engine to vibrate a lot. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Yoshi on 02/04/16 at 19:33:12 I would also do the head plug mod first then you should also look into the verslavy tensioner mod if the bike has that many mile. PPl like you is where I have the ablility of buying a cheap bike, someone gets a little issue then puts the bike away now they go to take it out to only find out it needs a battery! Now I come in and say I'll give you $500 you think well the bike is broken and needs this and that... I take it home, I do the 2 mods I mentioned and have a perfectly good bike for under a grand aslong as I do the work myself. These bikes get expensive when you pay someone to do the work. Is a bike or $500 more worth it to you? Can you try to do those mods yourself? Try doing the work yourself,we'll wlk you through whatever you have issues with. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/04/16 at 22:23:23 14,000 + miles.. Time to check the cam chain. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/05/16 at 04:17:44 I am decent with a wrench and have people at my disposal who are better. I payed less than $500 for this classic and it is worth much more than that to me. I am waiting on a battery and new plugs. Once I get it to turn over again I will post more information. I think I can and will do the mods suggested with the cam chain and head plug. I am sure after reading this forum I will need to replace the chain. Should I do the verslavy now? I don't want to dump too much money into it if I cannot save it. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/05/16 at 04:29:06 Before you do anything else....I would do a compression test on the piston/cylinder. You need to find out if those parts are worn, and the source of the oily plug. Does the bike make blue smoke, or burn oil when ridden? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/05/16 at 07:45:19 Is your original petcock leaking....and filled the crankcase up with gasoline (the diluted oil is getting onto the spark plug and the full crankcase is causing the extra noise?) |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/05/16 at 11:55:49 How do I do a compression test? I have burned oil before when ridden. I'll check the crank case but I don't think the petcock is leaking. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/05/16 at 14:57:42 Obtained a compression tester. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/05/16 at 15:22:47 What should I be looking for? I have a more experienced rider/mechanic comming over this weekend to assist. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Art Webb on 02/06/16 at 08:38:45 Clymer says 145-203 psi you have the 10mm adapter? you'll need that if you don't have one |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Kris01 on 02/06/16 at 10:26:31 Art, what page is that on? I called myself looking in the Clymers last night but no luck. I did work 14 hours yesterday though. That's my excuse! ;D |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/07/16 at 12:06:43 Picked up the adapter. Had to bump start it cold going down hill with the tank off. It was a lot of fun. Got a clean read of 120. What next? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/08/16 at 03:43:09 6765767F72617776130 wrote:
You have me a bit confused.....why did you need to bump start the engine with the tank off to get a compression test? Normally the test is done using the starter button.....you did the test by pushing the bike in gear? A reading of 120 psi is really low. If that reading is accurate, that is a low of compression and I am surprised the bike will start. That low compression, along with the oil burning indicates your piston/rings/cylinder are not in good shape. It is time for you to decide what to do. Do you have the ability to take the engine out of the frame, remove the head and cylinder, and put it all back to together again? Is the bike worth spending $ 400 to get a good used stock piston/cylinder and the needed gaskets - or $ 800 for the parts needed to install a Wiseco? Likely you can buy a good late model 5 speed engine for a similar price - and it will have the starter torque limiter to help prevent broken pieces if the engine were to kick backwards on the shutdown. Or....do you part out the bike and buy another one that requires little or no work? In this area $ 1,500 - $ 2,000 can buy a very nice used bike that is ready to ride. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Art Webb on 02/08/16 at 08:43:30 Kris, it's on page 117 in the 'engine specs' chart, under compression ratio, listed as 'compression pressure' 120 is really low, but I have doubts the test was accurate, IIRC you have to crank the engine several revolutions with the throttle held wide open to get an accurate reading I have doubts that happened while 'bump starting ' it |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/08/16 at 09:36:06 Alas, still waiting for my battery to ship. I will do a more proper test once it's in and post the results. Bump startin was fun but I am sure you guys are right. And yes I coasted it in second and popped it in gear to get a revolution for the test. I am find spending some cash and rebuilding the engine. The work is part of the fun for me. I love this bike. We have a love / hate relationship. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Art Webb on 02/08/16 at 09:42:30 form all I've heard, one revolution definitely would not be accurate you can jump it off a car battery, so long as you do not start the car |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/08/16 at 09:59:23 How can I compression test with the bike running with the spark plug out? The tool goes into the spark plug hole. Am I missing something? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/08/16 at 10:03:31 4644575E53405657320 wrote:
You cannot do it with the engine running. You install the compression tester, hold the throttle open, hit the starter button and allow the electric starter to turn the engine over, and you watch the compression gauge. It will not show anything for a revolution or two...then the compression release solenoid will release and allow the exhaust valve to close, and the compression will start to build. You hold the starter button until the maximum reading is achieved.....most likely that will be 3 or 4 compression strokes. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/08/16 at 10:09:24 Dave, Thank you sir. I'll post results when I get the battery in. Thanks for bearing with me. I appreciate the sage wisdom and patience. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/11/16 at 07:25:24 Finally got new battery in mail. Unfortunately I have to go on a trip. I will run the test next week and post results. Anyone have information how their EarthX batteries are working after a couple years? This site made me interested in them as a lighter alternative. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/11/16 at 07:36:31 4547545D50435554310 wrote:
I bought my EarthX 3 years ago, and I have never had it on a trickle charger yet (they don't want you to do that and it is best just to leave it alone as it holds the charge a long time). Each spring I hit the key and it fires right up. My bike is stored in a heated garage, and I don't ride in the cold and my bike always startes within a second of hitting the starter button.....I never have to crank for an extended period. The battery is incredibly light and works fine - however you must never leave your key on and run the battery down completely......they claim that when you do that the LiIon battery suddenly becomes useless and cannot be restored. Since you just bought a new battery...might as well use that until it is worn out. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/15/16 at 11:16:43 Just slapping a New Battery in and hitting the starter won't NECESSARILY give you what you want. Test battery voltage with a meter. It needs to be 12.6 or better. Without reading the voltage, you can't know what your starter is being spun over by. I'd wanna know battery voltage, key off, voltage, key on and Start button pushed And, I'd wanna know what voltage is making it through the circuitry and is AT the starter. I went back and read the full story. If you wanna ride, either buy another one, get a motor and electronic stuff to make it run, keep everything, fix the old motor. Swap back, test, sell the other motor. I THOUGHT I saw something like, I'm gonna fix this classic... Emotional attachment to machinery can get irrationally expensive. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/24/16 at 04:26:18 Alright folks. I got battery installed and ran compression test correctly. I did it twice and got 155psi both times. So I am within specs. What is the next step? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/25/16 at 11:02:10 Is the next think I tackle head plug and gaskets? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/25/16 at 11:17:12 I still don't understand this oil leak. Is it on the outside of the engine....or is the oil inside the engine and the oil is fouling the spark plug electrode? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/25/16 at 11:24:52 Oil would be inside the cover near the spark plug. Oil would also be in the outside but could just be leaking from the same place out. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 02/25/16 at 11:35:29 Verslagen and I were both able to identify where a leak comes from, by hooking up the vent tube at the top of the cylinder cover - to an air compressor to pressurize the crankcase (I only had 5 psi in my compressor). Once the pressure is applied to the engine, I used a spray bottle to apply a dish soap/water mix, and then I watched for bubbles. It worked very well to identify the leak. If your head cover is the source of the leak....then you might as well put a Verslagen head plug in while you have the cylinder head cap removed. http://i60.tinypic.com/11blzdl.jpg Also.....the left front cylinder had stud can leak oil from around the washer - that stud has an opening around it, and it functions as the drain for the oil from the cylinder head. If that is the source of the leak, remove the nut, clean the nut and cylinder head, and then apply sealer to the nut. The threads on the stud should have never seize applied, then the nut needs to be torqued. http://i61.tinypic.com/nqv4tw.jpg |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 02/25/16 at 16:34:16 That is extremely clever. I will hunt down a compressor and inform you of my results once the test is completed. From the pictures you posted it looks like one of those two areas is the likely culprit. I got pricing from verslagen and will be sending him a message for the plug. Thanks for the help so far. |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/25/16 at 20:53:02 Bicycle, or football pump , |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by verslagen1 on 02/25/16 at 21:30:11 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1335737953 http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/images/oil_leak_check.jpg |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by SavageCounsel on 03/21/16 at 20:35:03 I had some family health issues I had to deal with. I appreciate the help so far. With the test prescribed it looks like it is leaking from both places. But more from the top. It looks like a head cover problem is the main culprit. That means I have to remove the engine to repair it correct? |
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Title: Re: '86 Savage - Leaking Oil onto Spark Plug Post by Dave on 03/22/16 at 03:39:59 6E6C7F767B687E7F1A0 wrote:
No....the fuel tank, top engine mount, chrome covers, valve covers (cause there are two bolts hiding under them), the breather hose and a few other parts need to come off. The cylinder head and engine can stay where they are. You should order a Verslagen head plug while you are doing this....that will prevent that leak from happening again. There are some threads in the Tech Section that cover how to do this. Buy the correct Suzuki Bond....don't go cheap and try to use RTV gasket from the parts store or Walmart. |
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