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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Lowest RPM for cruising? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1454061276 Message started by MeeLee on 01/29/16 at 01:54:36 |
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Title: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by MeeLee on 01/29/16 at 01:54:36 What's the lowest RPM the bike holds for cruising in 5th gear, without lugging the bike? Most of the bikes run at 2k or 2.5k RPM minimum, which translates to about 30-35MPH. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Kris01 on 01/29/16 at 11:09:00 I think I've read on this forum most people saying around 2500 minimum. I'm in 5th around 40-45 mph if that helps you. I don't have a tach but that speed should match close to that rpm. My bike pulls just fine in 5th at 45ish mph. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Dave on 01/29/16 at 11:16:46 7159597059593C0 wrote:
You have a lot of questions, and are dragging up a lot of old threads. Help us out a little bit, so we can understand what you want to accomplish. Do you have a bike....or are you shopping for one? How long have you been riding....what bike do you currently own, and what bikes have you owned previously? What kind of riding do you want to do.....mostly 80 mph highway? Dave |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by MeeLee on 01/29/16 at 23:02:07 I have had many bikes. I'm in the process of buying a 2007 S40. I wanted the S40, to feel 30BHP on a 350LBS bike. My only complaint will be, I'll ride it every other day a good 20 minutes of interstate riding. Speeds of 75 to 85MPH GPS verified. I am currently doing that on a Rebel 250, and needed more power. The S40 stock is not a fun bike to do this with, but I'm looking for modifications to make it possible. I have no problems whatsoever with side winds, or the light weightedness of the bike. My only issue will be speed (to go between 75 to 85MPH) by looking at some minor performance enhancements, and reducing vibrations through a gearing mod (25t pulley seems intriguing). Stock the bike does fine at 75MPH, but I occasionally want to peak at 90MPH. The Rebel 250 doesn't do 90. At least not on GPS. It does sometimes go to 90MPH on the speedo (which is around 85MPH GPS). So I'm looking for a replacement Rebel 250 with just a tad more power and top speed (5 MPH more top speed is good enough). I read hundreds of posts about a bigger bike, but it's not what I want. Unless I get a supermoto (which is both costly, and doesn't sit very well), there are only a few bikes with >300cc engine, and <400LBS weight, and an upright seating position. Add to that a <$2k pricepoint, and the only bike left is a second hand S40. KTM KLR650 is over 400LBS. Yamaha FZ-07 is too much bike for me, and too expensive Yamaha SR400, too expensive, and low quality. Rebel 450 is nowhere to be found anymore (around these areas). CB300F is more expensive, and reaches about the same top speed, without the added benefit of the S40's nice acceleration. That's in a nutshell my story. So now I'm looking to improve the only issue the S40 is lacking in for me, is top speed.... This question on lowest RPM for cruising was just asked to see how a 25t pulley would affect gearing when riding in town. I ride a lot between 40 and 45MPH; which is currently possible on an S40 in final gear (it does 2750-3000 RPM). With a 25t front pulley, I'll have to ride in 4th gear when going under 45MPH; which will affect MPG in a negative way. Then again, the newer gearing will work well for speeds between 45-85MPH, which is where I'll be riding the bike more frequently in. I just want it to do 85MPH on the interstate when I need to, without falling apart. The 25t front pulley will be a given mod; I'm just not sure if the stock bike will pull the load easily. I could do a port job, and have more high rev power; since the S40 has sufficient low end power.... The 25t pulley will shift the optimal "75MPH" speed to 81MPH. A higher compression cylinder will seem interesting, as it will increase efficiency (MPG), and power. Seeing the low compression of the 650, I wouldn't mind increasing it a tad.. Sorry about the many questions... There's a lot that I try to accomplish,therefor I have so many of them. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by verslagen1 on 01/29/16 at 23:44:05 4C64644D6464010 wrote:
wait till you get your but on one before you decide. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by chzeckmate on 01/30/16 at 02:09:16 Hyosung GV250 is 341 lbs stock and will happily do 90+ with no mods, but with high flow muff/filter/jets and 1 up (front) and 3 down (rear) on the sprockets as well as a proper chain it will do 100 mph any day no problem and weighs 322 lbs. I'm not guessing or number crunching. I had one and this setup is what I ran. It is certainly not as torquey as the S40 but it'll get off the line faster than most cars and going 90 mph is smooth and comfortable any time. Given what you're looking for I'd say you might want to look into this option. The cost difference is minor. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Serowbot on 01/30/16 at 07:11:01 Well,.. a Savage will do anything a Rebel 250 will do, with 10 hp tied behind it's back... |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Kris01 on 01/30/16 at 07:23:05 7058587158583D0 wrote:
The 25t pulley effectively makes your new 4th gear (with 25t pulley) equal to the old (with stock pulley) 5th gear ratio. You shouldn't have any issues. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Dave on 01/30/16 at 08:06:55 7058587158583D0 wrote:
Nope....absolutely not. With the higher gearing, you have the ability to choose which gear works best at any given speed. Lugging an engine at high throttle settings and low rpm does not get any better fuel economy than running an engine at a medium rpm with less throttle. At 45mph.....you just use the gear that allows the engine to be running at a nice rpm. Running along in 4th gear works just fine if that is where the engine is in the sweet spot between 3,000 and 4,000 rpm. With the double Kawasaki pulley conversion on my bike, I don't use 5th gear for anything under 60 mph, |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Art Webb on 02/01/16 at 10:25:52 $2k or less can still net a nice Ninja 500 used, which has a fairly upright riding position , even for my old body, aside from my knees, and will utterly smoke the S40 anywhere but off the line, and do so with very little vibration or if you must have a cruiser, there's the now discontinued Vulcan 500, with a detuned Ninja 500 engine, that will still eat the S40 alive anywhere above say 45 MPH both of these are quality bikes with a 6 speed transmission, and far better suited than the S40 for high speed freeway riding S40s are great ion town cruisers, and fine backroad mounts, but they aren't great interstate bombers unless you keep it down to 65-70, which work fine if you stay in the slow lane, even in texas, where everyone likes to go 90+ |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by engineer on 02/01/16 at 11:53:46 Meelee, I think a lot of us on this forum know what you want. Most of us like the Savage/S40 because it is light weight, simple, powerful enough to get us around and you don't have to fold your knees up like a jockey on a horse. But, I am not comfortable cruising at 85 mph on it. Most of us wish the gear box had spread 4th and 5th gears out a little to help with cruising but it hasn't happened. Like many, I have a bigger bike for cruising. Changing the sprocket helps with top end cruising speeds but it also makes first gear taller, I can feel the difference with just my slightly over sized tire. And I don't like it because I am often in stop and go traffic and wish that first were geared lower so I could just putter along slowly and not have to constantly work the clutch. Maybe you should look for a different bike. In the seventies they made lots of light weight bikes that were quick and had good top end power. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by MMRanch on 02/01/16 at 13:07:25 MeeLee I had a 250 Rebel years ago and mine topped out about 75 on most days. It also slowed down going up hills . My S-40 with 140/90 tire and 25 tooth pulley will gain speed going up those same hills. ;) OldRider has a 300 Ninja that must be great on the Super-Slab , he rode it to a Dragon Run just for a one day ride all the way from Florida. :) |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Steve H on 02/02/16 at 04:18:35 The little Ninjas do fine on the slab. They're a little buzzy and you have to plan your passes at high speeds. But, it'll run at 10k all day and still have some left if you need some extra speed. People have done the Iron Butt 1k and CCC on them a few times. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Art Webb on 02/02/16 at 08:02:26 which is why I recommend an older 500 instead of the 250, it's not buzzy at highway speeds if it's running right, it hums happily along at anything from 70-100 mph the 300 is injected, and is supposed to match the performance of the old 500, but revs higher to do it, and might not be doable on a 2K budget |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Dave on 02/03/16 at 02:49:45 We have no idea what country MeeLee lives in - so I have no idea what is available, or what it costs. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by MeeLee on 02/08/16 at 09:42:46 Thanks for the replies so far. The S40 seems to be cruising highwayspeeds at about 5k rpm, A Honda CB300F does the same, at about 9k rpm. Almost 1/2 the cc, at 2x the rpm... I've looked at most of the bikes suggested, which are well over 400lbs (some over 500lbs), and not an option. For me, it was a second hand S40 (~$2.5k) vs a CB300F ~$6k new. My rebel runs great around town, so something that can go a bit faster is what I'm looking for. I still have time. BMW is bringing out a G310r by Q3 of 2016, Hopefully Hyosung will get their gt300s for sale by then, I'll wait a bit.. if I can ;D |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Art Webb on 02/08/16 at 09:54:11 Ninja 500 (EX500) 370lb not over 400 RPM at 70, 6k redline 9k 6k is 'cruiseing' S40 380 IIRC RPM at 60 4k redline (not achievable in top gear) 6.8k 4k is cruising difference, S40 is all in at 80-85, and running it that fast all the time will wear it out running the EX500 at 80-85 is still cruising love the S40, it's a great bike it's not a great interstate bike do what you like, you will anyway, but you're going to beat the poor thing to death in short order |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by chzeckmate on 02/08/16 at 13:23:59 6048486148482D0 wrote:
I'm curious if you looked at my suggestion. The Hyosung GV250 weighs around 340 lbs stock. Redline is 12k RPM and you can easily cruise at 75 at around 6k RPM. Fifth gear is very tall and very usable. The compression ratio is either 10.3:1 or 11.0:1 depending on whether the model you chose is FI or not. It provides plenty of power down low. If the S40 can beat if off the line it's not by much. It will do 100mph every day and you don't need a tail wind to get there if you make the few minor mods I mentioned earlier. Fuel efficiency is way better. 65-85 mpg with a 3.7 gallon tank. I used to get close to 300 miles per tank on mine. The suspension is top notch. This is a bike designed for around town, freeway, and long trips are very comfortable as well. If one had been available in my area in my price range around the time I got the S40 I would be riding that instead. Price? You're going to pay a little more for a used Hyosung GV250 but that's to be expected. It's a modern bike. The one thing that the S40 takes the win for is longevity. The 650 cc single will last forever if well maintained and the basic necessities are met (cam chain tensioner, etc.). I'm not trying to sell you a bike, I'm just trying to help you find the bike that's going to fit your needs. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Dave on 02/08/16 at 13:53:11 I don't know where MeeLee lives - but I most likely would not buy a Hyosung anything.....as there is nowhere in this area to get parts for one. And if I am riding through several states - where am I going to get a part if I need something? (Sort of the same reason that I haven't bought a BMW yet...Suzuki/Yamaha/Honda parts are so much easier to get). I did a dealer search for the Cincinnati area, and the closest Hyosung dealer is 77 miles away.....the next closest is nearly 300 miles up along the northern Ohio border! |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by chzeckmate on 02/08/16 at 13:56:27 A lot of the parts for the GV250 are a direct match for Suzuki parts. Remember, Hyosung was the key manufacturing partner for Suzuki for a very long time. I never had a problem. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by cheapnewb24 on 02/08/16 at 17:22:53 The Savage (S40) will cruise the slab up to around 75 mph (indicated) with stock gearing nice and smooth. With stock gearing, that long stroked engine starts to hate you when the needle approaches 80, though. I've taken her on the slab before. No crazy long road trips, though. From what I've gathered, the fastest speed limit in the country is 75, and the Savage can do that and hold it easily. All you've got to worry about is the people who go faster than the posted speed limit (generally everyone, depending... ;D). Considering the data I've reviewed (rather than actual experience :P), I would recommend at least a 130/90-15 or 140/90-15 as opposed to the stock 140/80-15, for even the 130/90 offers taller effective gearing than the 140/80. Of course, that depends on whether you want to use tire size or sprockets to affect gearing. Some say the 130/90 handles a little better than the wider/taller 140/90.130/90 is the also the standard size for that rim-- NOT 140/80 or 140/90. Of course, you could stick with 140/80 and use the 25t sprocket, provided that you find a 140/80 in a brand that you like. ::) |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by smokin_blue on 02/08/16 at 18:11:44 I hate to even stir this pot but I will throw my 2 cents in. I have ridden many many bikes over the years and I have to say one of the bikes that ranks right up there for being a great all around bike, and by that I mean scoot around town or blast up the freeway is the Suzuki SV650. They are light, handle great, have more torque than you know what to do with, can scoot through town or shoot up the freeway as long as you have gas and don't have to stop and pee. They are about $2000 on up for a good used one. The only reason I don't have one in my garage for my wife to ride is at 5-4' she could touch the ground but just lacked the confidence to go for it. She just loves her S-40 so much. I was so bummed when they changed to the gladius and now discontinued the line all together. But wait there is hope! 2017 the SV650 is coming back!!!! Sorry just kind of like that bike along with the 3 S-40 powered rigs sitting in the garage. ::) |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by cheapnewb24 on 02/08/16 at 18:23:54 Guys, he already has experience running a Rebel on the slab. He knows what he's getting into. ;) I don't think this guy is looking for the "ideal Interstate bike" is he? He's just looking for something like a Rebel with a little more pep for the highway. The question he should really ask himself is this: Do I really want something in the league of the Honda Rebel, but with a bigger, fuel sucking engine? If yes, then fine. I have no experience with alternate gearings. With that said, remember that first gear will become taller and harder to deal with if you gear up. Also, our little thumper has a sweet spot. :-/ Go too low, and despite her long stroke, she'll feel luggy, jerky, and vibratory. :( Too high, and it feels inefficient. She likes to rev, but she doesn't ::) :(. You have to get her just right. I understand completely your concern about running around 45 mph with alternate gearings. I've had that same concern: whether she'll be in the sweet spot in that crucial little speed. Ya gotta have a gear for every kind of condition. 8-) You need a gear for pulling out and low speed stuff, a gear for 25 mph town driving, a gear for 35 mph, a gear for 45 mph, one for 55-65, and a top Interstate (Autobahn if you're German :P) gear. Unfortunately, our Savage doesn't have 6 well spaced gears. ::) At best it has 5 weird gears :D. Check http://www.gearingcommander.com/ for the 5 speed LS650 data. Her peak torque is around 3500 rpm, and, depending on tuning, this practical power curve goes up to around 4500 (or from 3000 to 5000 if you're optimistic and all-inclusive). Now, in the lower gears (or lower loads), as you may know, you wont need to cruise at 3500 in many cases since that's just overkill, but 3000 is a good number for moderate speed low load cruising. Interpreted: 3500-5000 rpm for highway. 3000-4000 for backroads and towns. First and second gear can handle even lower rpms, however. The website indicates that 25 mph in 2nd is around 3k. This is overkill for lazy town riding, so taller gearing may actually help here. There is a huge jump between 2nd and 3rd gear. @ 25, 2nd is a little too much, and 3rd seems luggy :(. 2nd is very relaxed at 20 (indicated), though. This is a combination of personal experience and studying Gearing Commander 8-). it also follows the experience of others here. If anyone has any comments, you're welcome. :-? In addition, I have found that, in my experience, downshifting to 4th gear at highway speeds is not very helpful. It pulls great in top gear around 55+ |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by cheapnewb24 on 02/08/16 at 18:42:29 Alot of people here like the SV650. I have no experience with it. Strangely, we can go over all the logical pros and cons about something, but sometimes people like the craziest things, so there is no "best" bike that fits every single person. Maybe this person would rather have a Savage than a Hyosung. :-/ Maybe not :-/. It's his choice. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by chzeckmate on 02/09/16 at 01:32:47 4F44494D5C42495B4E1E182C0 wrote:
The fact that he's been running a Rebel on the freeway and is now looking at the S40 doesn't tell us anything other than he has a Rebel and he's maxed it out up there and found it insufficient. The fact that he's been looking at the S40 tell us that he's looking for something more like an S40 than a Rebel. He's also made it clear that he doesn't want it to run out of breath at his ideal speed and that weight is a concern. This is why I recommended the bike I recommended. It fits everything he's mentioned without the $1000 worth of mods that would be needed to give the S40 the legs to do what he wants. I don't need the gearing commander to tell me that. I've owned both and have the experience to give the GV250 the nod. I was simply offering a suggestion. It's ultimately up to him to decide what to do. I might also mention that all your numbers (and emoticons) are most likely not going to do anything to help in that decision. My 2¢ |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by cheapnewb24 on 02/09/16 at 08:51:17 I have a local Hyosung dealer. They are also a Suzuki dealer (amongst other things) Those Hyosung bikes seem attractive for the price. I've looked at them in person (not sure about the exact model, though) Their 250's seem nice. You can just about buy one new for the price of many used bikes. I think I sat on one of their 250 cruisers (maybe the same bike) as well as one of their standards or sports. They seem big and comfy for a 250 (fitwise) with good ergonomics, but my memory is a little fuzzy, so don't hold me on that one. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by sw1991 on 03/10/16 at 00:30:07 My bike doesn't like being in 5th gear below 45 mph at the lowest. I'll usually keep it in 4th until I hit 45-50. Below that i just keep It in 4th for the power. Probably isn't using much more gas, and I don't get a good pull until I'm at 50 in 5th. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by chzeckmate on 03/10/16 at 01:23:19 6A6E28202028190 wrote:
This is kind of an old thread and I'm not sure if it really accomplished anything, but I'll mention that I'm just shifting into 4th at around 50 mph...shifting into 5th around 65 mph. You don't want to lug this motor so don't be afraid to get everything you can out of each gear. I do have a larger diameter Shinko 230 140/90 so it's easier on the rpms for me. Stock Id run up to around 45 in 3rd, up to around 60 in 4th, and 5th was good at 60+ . Give that a try and see how she does for you. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Kris01 on 03/10/16 at 13:38:05 chzeckmate, you ride the snot outta that thing, don't you?!? :D I have a 30 mph road right outside the neighborhood. There are usually cops patrolling because...well, it's 30 mph! My bike has no problem cruising in 3rd gear at that speed. I couldn't tell you when I shift into 4th but 5th at around 40-45 is very comfortable. For power (at that speed) I'd downshift to 4th though. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by chzeckmate on 03/11/16 at 00:33:45 The S40's happy place is between 3200 and 4400 rpm. For me, with my new larger diameter tires, when I shift out of 2nd gear at around 4000 rpm I'm right at 37 mph. I'll run up to 4200 rpm in 3rd and I'm right at 50 mph. Same thing with fourth...run it up to 4200 and I'm around 68. fifth rarely gets used but I've run it up to 90 mph a couple of times and I don't remember what the tach said, but it wasn't high enough to cause me any concern. Keep in mind these speeds are indicated which means I'm actually going faster than this because of the bigger tires. I wouldn't say I ride the snot out of it. These rpms and speeds are perfectly suitable for the engine design. As for your stretch of 30 mph road I would hum along nicely at 30 mph in second gear at a very chill 3500rpm and LEO would just have to watch and wish they were on two wheels. |
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Title: Re: Lowest RPM for cruising? Post by Art Webb on 03/11/16 at 08:27:02 I found 5th at 45 to be good, with a 140/90 rear tire Not for power of course but for a nice relaxing engine note Lugging an engine is bad but you're not lugging a stock S40s engine at 35 in 5th at lite throttle if you are lugging, you know right away, the bike starts bucking and jumping and making noises that tell you 'I'm not happy' otoh, there's nothing wrong with buzzing along at 3500-4000 RPM if that's where you're happy, neither is abusing the engine, and it's debatable which is better for fuel economy, as some MC engines actually turn in better miles per at higher RPM ranges I used to putt around on mine and get like 35 MPG, or 40s at 70 on the highway, but I thing I got 50s at around 55-60 MPH |
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