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Message started by Steddy58 on 01/25/16 at 09:31:11

Title: starter problem after flat battery
Post by Steddy58 on 01/25/16 at 09:31:11

Right then, being the knob that I am I left the ignition turned on overnight and the battery died so I charged it up and replaced it on the bike pressed the starter and then strange things started happening smoke started appearing near the starter solenoid I'm pretty sure it was from the cable to the starter motor so I turned off the ignition and the bike was still trying to start by itself smoke was still issuing from said cable so I quickly disconnected the battery and it stopped. I took the battery out put the pos wire back on to the batt and touched the earth to neg terminal and sparks from terminal and the bike was trying to start itself again with no key in ignition. It seemed like it was struggling to turn the engine over and the decomp solenoid didn't seemed to be lifting the valve properly no loud clunk like usually heard when starting. Not sure how to proceed - any ideas anyone? thanks in advance

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by Art Webb on 01/25/16 at 09:33:34

that really sounds like somehow you got the leads reversed, or there's a problem with the solenoid, but I'm not a savage guru, I'm sure others will have some different ideas

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by verslagen1 on 01/25/16 at 09:51:01

Hopefully the starter solenoid is stuck.
take a plastic screwdriver and rap the fender just below the ig switch.

If it's not it, then it's the decomp controller.

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by Steddy58 on 01/25/16 at 10:28:57

Stuck solenoid was one of the theories we had, the decomp controller is being replaced by a manual one soon (the less electrics the better), cheers

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by Dave on 01/25/16 at 13:49:38

I am not sure how long the manual decompression kit will take to get to you.....you are across a pretty big pond from here in KY!

If it turns out the decompression controller is the problem....don't buy a new one. Most likely with a good battery and temperatures that are not too cold - you can get by without the compression release for a little while. Before I developed a way to make a working lever operated compression release, I had tried using a Honda CR clutch and compression release lever - and it turned out the pull on the clutch lever was not long enough to fully release the clutch, and the small compression release lever just wasn't strong enough to pull the compression release. So....I ended up riding for a full season without a working compression release. Out of 100 starts the bike would fire right up without a problem - then every once in a while the piston would be on the bottom of the compression stroke when I hit the start button - and the starter was not strong enough to get the piston to go over TDC. I would have to release the starter button, then put the bike in gear and inch it forward until I got off the compression stroke, then put the bike in neutral and start it up. (When you get your manual release installed....you likely will only use it on those rare occasions when the starter won't get the engine moving.

The RYCA site may have instructions on how to remove the Compression Controller and how to alter the wiring harness.

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by verslagen1 on 01/25/16 at 14:53:21

183F2E3B230F4B0 wrote:

Stuck solenoid was one of the theories we had, the decomp controller is being replaced by a manual one soon (the less electrics the better), cheers

decomp controller is a electronic box on top of the carb.
it activates the decomp and has a delay for the starter.
if you're going manual, you can eliminate the box.
there's an unconfirmed wiring diagram somewhere.

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by Steddy58 on 01/25/16 at 15:46:24

No problem about the time Dave, the bad weather over your way will probably hold it up as well but I hope the problem I've got now will be sorted by then :).I think I've seen the wiring diagram somewhere verslagen . Anyway I'll try a few things and report back with the results thanks for the ideas and help people.

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by Steddy58 on 01/26/16 at 05:43:08

Update time - I have changed the starter relay and connected the battery and no sparks and trying to start by itself so all good there, pressed starter button and no decomp and its not firing but its turning over a bit laboured but maybe the battery needs a bit of a charge. I have changed the cdi unit just in case I buggered the original with leaving ignition on but tbh the original didnt smell burnt out, but you never know. Going to take the tank off and spark plug out to see if theres any sort of spark - later everyone

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/26/16 at 07:50:27

Dirt collects down by the plug. Blow it out.
You CAN run it without the decomp. Just. Work with it until it's Not on the compression stroke before starting.
I had a solenoid stick closed on the pickup. Totally notcool.

If you're questioning ignition, or fuel, shoot ether at the intake.

What did changing the CD I run?

The CDI Requires a hot battery to make it spark.
I left it on, left it on park, generally caused myself grief. CDI held strong. But a battery that spins it over may SOUND great, but the battery voltage is below what the CDI needs.

Jumper cable, or a good charge on the battery.
Prove before digging.

With the seat off there is a single hot wire . The decomp timer is close to it. I put twelve volts on on of those leads and the decomp clicked , motor spun over. Even if the key was in my pocket. Turn the key on, and it would start.

By studying the wiring diagram you can find it. I WANNA say it was the second wire from the left, as I was standing behind the bike.

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by thumperclone on 01/26/16 at 09:03:31

sounds like the side stand diode

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by Steddy58 on 01/26/16 at 11:10:06

Many thanks for the info everyone, all seems to be well after changing the starter solenoid then charging the battery and cleaning a couple of connections just to be sure, the satisfying clunk of the decomp occured and it fired up as if nothing happened, like you said JOG charging the battery for longer probably the final link in the chain and verslagen the starter solenoid must have been stuck so I'm glad it didn't turn into an epic at least I know the spare CDI works, cheers ps is it worth sorting out the old solenoid or just bin it, if it stuck once is it likely to mess up again?anyway thanks again

Title: Re: starter problem after flat battery
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/26/16 at 15:42:31

I just rebuilt the solenoid on a mower. Drilled the rivets, cleaned up the guts, riveted it back, it lives...
Question is, what did it cost? How hard is it to go get one? How often do they go bad? Odds are, you'll never need another.
But, if you keep it, and this one dies, you can try before you buy.

The problem is that the contacts arced and stuck. Sometimes they can be taken apart, sometimes, not.. Just hafta look at it and think about it, balance cost and time. And there's always the chance that IF you fix it, it'll do it again. And a runaway starter isn't good.