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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> fork rake /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1453566981 Message started by dodfather on 01/23/16 at 08:36:20 |
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Title: fork rake Post by dodfather on 01/23/16 at 08:36:20 have a 1991 savage. don't like the rake can I swap complete front end to reduce rake.if so what fits. thans....ray. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Serowbot on 01/23/16 at 09:33:28 No easy way to do it... with the front end. You can raise the rear end with 2" taller shocks. This will alter a front rake little, and give decent suspension on the rear at the same time... |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by verslagen1 on 01/23/16 at 10:10:43 http://https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Bicycle_dimensions.svg/563px-Bicycle_dimensions.svg.png http://https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Bicycle_fork_geometry-en.svg/235px-Bicycle_fork_geometry-en.svg.png |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Serowbot on 01/23/16 at 10:22:07 That bike has no pedals... :-/ |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by verslagen1 on 01/23/16 at 10:29:29 Many 80's suzuki GS series bikes have the same head tube and bearings. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by springman on 01/23/16 at 11:24:58 Just want to make sure I understand. If I put taller rear shocks on the bike, this will decrease the rake angle slightly and that should produce slightly quicker steering response? Is that correct? |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Kris01 on 01/23/16 at 11:33:39 Yes. Verslagen's diagram is not quite right for a motorcycle. Rake is not measured from the forks. It's measured from the steering axis. They are one and the same in the above pictures for the bicycle. Our forks are offset from the steering axis. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Dave on 01/23/16 at 12:36:43 Installing taller shocks helps to make the forks more vertical....and on the Cafe' conversions we also drop the front forks a couple of inches. Or....you can cut the frame at the steering head and change the rake. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by verslagen1 on 01/23/16 at 12:52:52 0F362D377475440 wrote:
I made that assumption initially too, but look again the line is on the steering axis. m/c forks are offset from the steering axis at the head tube so it's easy to measure the fork offset or rake. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by wolfsgrin on 01/23/16 at 13:09:57 You could find some 1.5-3" raked neck cups and a longer steering stem.Then reverse them bringing the rake in instead of out. Would look good on a savage streetfighter with some gators. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Kris01 on 01/23/16 at 13:41:03 2A1308125150610 wrote:
Yeah, I was just clarifying. The forks on a bicycle are usually on the same plane as the steering axis. I guess there could be some bicycles with offset forks. Since our forks have an offset to the steering axis, I thought I'd better point that out so someone doesn't get confused. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Kris01 on 01/23/16 at 14:01:11 Stock: Rake = 35° Trail = 147 mm With 2" taller rear shocks: Rake = 34.9994° Trail = 146.7038 mm I think those numbers are right. Anyone wanna verify my math? ;D |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by norm92de on 01/23/16 at 21:10:59 I didn't do any math but the change in rake must be at least 1degree. I am a bit tired , and drunk, right now. but it has to be more than a fraction of a degree. ;D |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/23/16 at 22:03:31 A fork isn't a very good rake. And a spoon isn't a very good shovel. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Art Webb on 01/24/16 at 07:58:26 4B5D4A574F5A574C380 wrote:
it's a velocipede! |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by norm92de on 01/24/16 at 08:40:09 A quick and dirty rule in navigation is that a one degree change in course will result in a one mile difference in 60 miles. Since a motorcycle has a 60" wheelbase the calculation is easy. ;) |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/24/16 at 09:28:54 Decreased fork offset, increased trail? Pictures didn't seem right.. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Dave on 01/24/16 at 09:38:21 Yep....when I installed the RM400 triple trees it pulled the fork tubes back about 1.5 inches, and got me to almost 5" of trail. MMRanch rode the bike once at the Dragon, and he said at the first turn he came to it felt like he "was trying to bend a board"! Since then I went back to a stock offset and the bike feels much more nimble. Using the level on my cell phone I measured 28 degrees - but it may not be all that accurate. RYCA claims something like 29 degrees for their Cafe bike. Here is a previous discussion link: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1424120242 |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by verslagen1 on 01/24/16 at 09:42:34 734A514B0809380 wrote:
2" taller shocks will lift the rear about an inch. wheelbase is 58" the angle is inverse sin (1/58) = .99° give or take a mile ;D |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/24/16 at 10:09:20 2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:
I went back, looked at the pictures. The Swoop at the bottom of the fork was less, and the distance appeared to be less in the picture, yet the words accompanying the picture state Decreased fork offset, increased trail, And that is counterintuitive and seems to conflict with the picture. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by verslagen1 on 01/24/16 at 10:16:47 233C3A3D20271626162E3C307B490 wrote:
I went back, looked at the pictures. The Swoop at the bottom of the fork was less, and the distance appeared to be less in the picture, yet the words accompanying the picture state Decreased fork offset, increased trail, And that is counterintuitive and seems to conflict with the picture.[/quote] decrease fork offset = moving the axle back towards the steering axis. this will increase trail. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Kris01 on 01/24/16 at 13:20:16 3A293E3F202D2B29227D4C0 wrote:
Then my numbers are off. ;) |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/24/16 at 21:46:56 I have always thought that the line through the forks and then the greater distance between that line and the axle equals More trail, because the axle Leads the fork by More. I can't wrap my head around a larger Swoop in bicycle forks equalling Less trail. I'm gonna need an article, something... This is not clicking. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Kris01 on 01/25/16 at 06:38:44 look at the pic on the first page. By moving the wheel center forward with a curved fork, you're decreasing the trail. The imaginary line drawn through the steering axis doesn't change. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Kris01 on 01/25/16 at 18:42:19 Poor example but this should get my point across. The only difference is the wheel center has moved forward. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/25/16 at 20:50:36 That works, thank you very much. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/25/16 at 21:24:45 Now, if someone would explain the handling characteristics of each of those drawings and kinda walk me through it, id be less confused. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by verslagen1 on 01/25/16 at 21:37:08 nothing like experience jog you gotta pipe bender? make up a test bike. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/25/16 at 22:37:41 I don't think I need to understand that badly. |
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Title: Re: fork rake Post by Kris01 on 01/26/16 at 17:01:50 I THINK trail determines how hard you have to pull/push the bars to turn. I know the rake angle determines how fast the front end responds to rider inputs. If you're forks are too vertical the bike becomes "twitchy" and unstable. If you like the really raked look you're sacrificing handling for the "cool" factor. Somewhere in between is a good compromise. |
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