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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Because I'm Black...... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1453561709 Message started by raydawg on 01/23/16 at 07:08:29 |
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Title: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/23/16 at 07:08:29 Can not understand the mindset behind the Black Hollywood actors deciding they will boycott the Academy Awards for lack of representation in the final choices...... Do they need a Special Olympics type of program, for what once caused a great baseball man, who helped integrate the sport, by poorly chosen words, when he said Black players lacked the capacity to be managers..... So, do they lack what it is to be judged solely on merit, of their given performance, or? Acting is so subjective anyway, I often feel its mostly politically and social driven anyway, and has lost any real substance of value outside it own sphere. Look how Obama has used race as a primary concern to promote those around him..... has that improved anyone's lot? Man, when I cast that first vote for Obama, I never thought race relations would deteriorate the way it has...... and for the reasons it has. I guess I was proved wrong. Promoting one, over another, based solely on race, for whatever reason, does not work, period. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/23/16 at 08:01:22 And then I read this, on Real Clear Politics....... For all my perspective, this guy paints a 180 degree view on what Obama has done Re: race. On the one hand it gives me a glimpse of how hard it must be to placate everyone, as a president. This guy faults Obama for symbolism, yet, what is a boycott of anything if not symbolism? Honestly, will we ever say lets all rise to a higher standard together, and stop with excuses and finger pointing? Will we ever realize MLK dream of judging by the contents of our heart and not the color of our skins? The article: I watched President Obama’s last State of the Union address with the same mix of awe and frustration that has defined my relationship to his presidency. He’s the first president I ever cast a vote for, and the history of the moment has never escaped me. I grew up believing there would never be a black president of the United States. Not only was I proven wrong, but it happened when I was just barely old enough to legally buy liquor, melting away some of the cynicism that had shaped my political identity up to that point. The country had changed. We made progress. President Obama is a symbol of that progress. My frustration with Obama’s State of the Union, and the last seven years of his presidency, was recognizing that progress is painfully inadequate and symbols are disappointing. Obama did what he does best: He told a story of the America in which the country is always becoming better. “We made change work for us,” he said, “always extending America’s promise outward, to the next frontier, to more people.” “In fact, it’s that spirit that made the progress of these past seven years possible,” Obama continued. “It’s how we recovered from the worst economic crisis in generations. It’s how we reformed our health care system, and reinvented our energy sector; how we delivered more care and benefits to our troops and veterans, and how we secured the freedom in every state to marry the person we love.” Some of these accomplishments are undeniably good (though the reinvention of our energy sector is more aspirational than actual). There’s a real record of achievement that the Obama administration can be proud of. But there’s also a real record of mass deportation, drone strikes, and the placating of big banks. The embrace of certain immoral positions that ensure the continuance of the empire is a prerequisite for being an American president, and it’s something Obama’s symbolism could never overcome. Because symbols, as powerful as they can be in some respects, are largely a distraction. They allow us to pretend things are better than they are, that we aren’t measuring progress against the our ideas of fascistic catastrophe, as opposed to a noble vision of freedom, justice, and equality. Symbols are seductive. President Obama perhaps even more than usual, because his symbolism as the first black president made the country even more unwilling to deal with its legacy of racism, having satisfied itself with the progress made by electing Obama. Even as we lived the backlash of the Tea Party, the birthers, and Donald Trump’s racism, we could pretend it wasn’t as meaningful as having made the big leap in electing a black man to the office of president. I can’t help but sometimes look at President Obama and be struck that he’s seemed to keep his humanity intact. None of this has anything to do with Obama himself. Any black person who entered this office at this time would have produced a similar effect. What’s frustrating about Obama is he has more often than not acted as though he, too, believes his symbolism is enough, as if his election healed America’s most significant racial wound and there wasn’t much left for the country to address. Those who argue for the power of symbolic politics often say that a political leader who represents a marginalized community is more likely to prioritize their needs, but the Obama presidency produced more rhetoric about rising tides lifting all boats than redress around specific racist injury. We were told this would be more effective. We needed a movement to wake us up from that delusion. Except you would hardly have known there was a movement challenging white supremacy happening in the streets from Obama’s State of the Union address. For him, it was the beginning of the end—a retrospective on what he’s accomplished and a vision for where he would like to see the country to go when he’s out of office. Nowhere in that vision was an articulation of how the United States can uproot racism. For all of the talk about how there’s nothing at stake for him anymore, and how he’s able to speak more freely about things that would have been political liabilities four and eight years ago, Obama didn’t seem to feel free to talk about the most consequential political movement happening in the country right now. Rather, he appeared uninterested. It’s true that he’s spoken more openly about racism in the public sphere as of late, but Marc Maron’s WTF podcast is a different venue than that State of the Union speech, in reach and prestige. To fail to elevate the discourse happening around racism and white supremacy right now to the level of importance implied in the State of the Union—the last one he will deliver—says something of how he regards it. Symbols will always disappoint. Obama is a complicated symbol, though, because he is such an impressive man on his own merits. For all my political disagreements with him, for all the blatantly oppressive actions he has taken as president of this country, I can’t help but sometimes look at him and be struck that he’s seemed to keep his humanity intact. He is still a charismatic figure that’s able to win people over with intelligence and humor. And it’s really crappity smacking cool to have a president that knows who Kendrick Lamar is, let alone is on the right side of history in recognizing that Lamar is better than Drake. Less cool is having a president that thinks, as Obama said last Tuesday night, that “the protester determined to prove that justice matters” and “the young cop walking the beat” are a part of the same dream, or that “see[ing] ourselves not, first and foremost, as black or white, or Asian or Latino, not as gay or straight, immigrant or native born, not as Democrat or Republican, but as Americans first, bound by a common creed,” is an admirable goal and not a form of patriotism that welcomes us all to take uncritical pride in a history of racism, sexism, homophobia, imperialism, and economic exploitation. But that’s symbolism. That’s progress. That’s what we’re content with settling for time and again. The kind of change we need for this to be different won’t start at the presidential level. The Obama presidency is proof enough. To get beyond progress, to create the kind of transformational change we need, we have to start by questioning the very core of what has built the American identity. It’s clear we haven’t done this as we prepare ourselves to have the same conversation about a potential Hillary Clinton presidency. In the event she wins the Democratic nomination and eventually the presidency, her election would signal progress—that’s part of the reason Planned Parenthood broke with tradition to endorse her candidacy during the primary. But she will carry with her the hopes of symbolism her politics will not be able to live up to. She will, as Obama has, as every president does, disappoint on a number of fronts, but her ascendance to the position of president will still be lauded as progress. What we’ll need to realize is that progress simply isn’t enough, and the type of radical change that will actually ensure freedom, equality, and justice for all will not come through investing ourselves in the symbolism of the American presidency. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by Serowbot on 01/23/16 at 09:28:03 I don't understand what you are trying to say... did Obama do too much or not enough?... If he had tried to do more,.. he would be accused of reverse racism (as he has been, by some)... If he had done less,.. it would be said that he made no effort (as has been said, by some)... Rock,... meet hard place... He took what steps he believed he could, given the circumstances... The people that don't like it, wouldn't like it if it were more or less... Do you want more action on race, or less?... Which way would make you satisfied with Obama?... ...or, would nothing do it?... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/23/16 at 10:00:06 As I stated I had hope by showing I could vote for him that it would give testimony against those who say white folk won't vote for him because of his race. But in hindsight, tho it was not my intentions, I did use race as a factor. The listed article is just the flip side to my reasoning, but as you state, he is between a rock and a hard spot. Which I believe highlights the faulty reasoning in thinking we can use race, gender, etc, to level the playing field, as it will always rock one way or the other in trying to strike that balance..... And in the end we waste more energy on good intentions than achieving results. I believe we need to drop promoting any group/cause based on history injustices, etc, and, as silly as it sounds, promote all really as equal and without bias. I feel Obama has done a lot to promote his race to positions where he could, and I feel he used race as a factor in such. I think he is proud of it, but I am not sure this is how you repair race issues. I do believe once it is not politicized as a means to get votes, etc,people will naturally come to a new perception and understanding of each other, for the better of all of us. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by Serowbot on 01/23/16 at 10:19:36 I see no resolution that doesn't require time... As far as the Oscars... there is a clear problem... Oscar is a peer vote contest... and the peers have a lifetime membership... This carries the bias of the past into the present. 93% white membership, doesn't relate to current racial balance of the industry. They are talking about limiting membership to 10 years from last employment. This makes sense to me... and would help balance the votership with the current peer group. Asking for special consideration would be wrong,... but asking for voting to reflect the current membership sounds fair. The film industry is very different than it was decades ago. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/23/16 at 11:24:47 1204130E16030E15610 wrote:
And when, if, the balance switches to another "group" do we just keep resetting, or, do we really try and find a lasting solution that removes "bean counting" as a way to gauge success? Did you read the article I attached Bot? He references symbolism, yet by his very argument and observations, they are symbol based assumptions. First I think we all must admit freely we are in fact bias, and prejudice, none escape the basic primal code of assimilation. Instead of attaching a "symbol" of negativity connotations, which only invite defensive exchange and moves our original "hope" of understanding one anthers "feelings" way off the radar screen. Not many on the street level can "debate" matters intellectually without attaching emotions to the exchange/argument. To delegate this "debate" to "spokespeople" removes the very one element that does have that capacity to achieve results, and that is intimacy, or dialogue at our most primitive level using all our senses in the presences, of each other, to reaching out, and sharing, one on one. I think you have acknowledged the power of "not" speaking, repeating, or saying of certain words, phases, as a manner to diffuse disruptive perceptions people hold over one another, and exampled by Obama refusing to say Muslim Extremist/Terrorist. He is by fact, trying to direct the mind thought away from a negative perception of a whole faith based on the actions of an extremely small example of some sharing some sort of justification under the umbrella of that religion. However, we have seen this same accusation used readily to describe a zealot Christian who kills an abortion doctor, or Gay man, etc.... Bot, you are right, it is going to take time, or maybe it is beyond mans ability to ever forfeit his own self desires for the betterment of all, I don't know. But until we clean our own house and quit politicizing our differences and really practice tolerance, believing, diversity is NOT a threat , but an opportunity to get a really good hot dog, apple pie, at a Chinese Soul Food Mexican Restaurant..... Then I am sad to say most will just dig in, and nothing will ever change or evolve past the present mind thoughts and beliefs. :-[ |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by Serowbot on 01/23/16 at 12:51:58 I used to live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood... When shopping there,.. I was often the only white in the store. I rarely noticed.... Since I've moved into a neighborhood with very few Hispanics, it feels very uncomfortable when I go back to those stores... My neighborhood now is predominantly white, with about 30% black,... but only 5 or 10% Hispanic... Point is,.. it never used to bother me,... now it does. I don't think it's racism,.. just unfamiliarity... My feelings haven't changed,.. but I notice the change now. What that means,... I have no idea.... One of my best friends is Hispanic,... he says he feels the discomfort in my neighborhood... and notices when he's the only Mexican. I think we find comfort in familiarity... That will probably never change. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/23/16 at 13:14:46 5244534E56434E55210 wrote:
Eureka....... we have struck an understanding ;D I believe your testimony is exactly what I was trying to convey, we have a primal code of assimilation based on a comfort factor of familiarity that scripts our thoughts. Poop, even oil and water has the physical attributes as us, but then we say we must co-mingle based on a superior attitude thingy...... Which, opens this natural instinct to politicizing and manipulation. You, your friend, just admitted such, as feeling uncomfortable based on ??????? What we have been taught, or read, or more to point, propagandized..... Bot, I bet you can readily see how organized religions has used such a tool to enact their OWN agenda, yes? Do you think they stand alone on using such a technique? The "scene" really has no power to effect such emotions, as it is inanimate, of and by itself. Sure, things do happen, but that goes back to someone acting out on a preconceived notion, and then the dominoes fall, so to speak. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by Serowbot on 01/23/16 at 15:33:50 6E7D65787D6B7B1C0 wrote:
I think it's more to do with what you are used to, day to day... When surroundings change,.. you notice... :-? |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/23/16 at 17:01:01 6177607D65707D66120 wrote:
I think it's more to do with what you are used to, day to day... When surroundings change,.. you notice... :-?[/quote] Expectations perhaps? Doan go backsliding now darnit, we had an understanding ;D Yes, it is your surroundings based on your expectations, or experience, which, has been derived at via living it, or being told, about it. Lets say you work a 9 - 5 shift. You have for years. You expect it to be daylight when you go to work, and come home. You take it for granted. You get transferred to graveyard, now its dark. You will take time to adjust until it becomes your new norm. Nothing has really changed, just the way you look at things, as pretty girls look better in the light, and well, ugly ones look better in the dark ;) |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/23/16 at 21:27:22 Waterways Crimea River https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees And how about White History Month White Entertainment Channel? Waaah frikken WAAH. darned millionaires crying.. Dawg said Man, when I cast that first vote for Obama, I never thought race relations would deteriorate the way it has...... and for the reasons it has. I guess I was proved wrong. Promoting one, over another, based solely on race, for whatever reason, does not work, period. How long does it take before people understand that ANY ACTION TAKEN BASED ON RACE IS, BY DEFINITION, RAY FRIKKEN CIST? Voting FOR someone because of the color of their skin is EXACTLY as racist as voting against them. And Bot, you tried So hard to pretend Dawg was against bammy. When he Said that he voted for him. Why would Anyone make Fundamental Change in the Best ? But he said that he would. He did. We suffer. It's worse, not better. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by WebsterMark on 01/24/16 at 07:06:22 I've got a friend whose 6 2, 240 and built like a linebacker. Excop, ex MMA fighter a very intimidating looking dude., but he's also an artist, musician and Baptist preacher. What he really wants now is to play golf so I've decided to teach him and when it's not snow covered like it is now, we play. Now, when we walk in the clubhouse together, I "feel" every eye on us. The balls aren't the only thing white on a golf course. He's use to it he says. There's a new show on Showtime called "Billions" and the main character is of course a billionair. In one scene he says when he walks into a room, he feels everyone's eyes on him, like a woman with a perfect set of t!ts. I'm aware blacks in America feel the same eyes on them. so, the questions that raises is why? what does it matter? can we/should we change that? are those looks justified? do we look the same way towards anyone who is outside the norm in a given situation or do we really have an inherent prejudice towards blacks? |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by oldNslow on 01/24/16 at 07:24:46 Quote:
Yes. Perfectly natural human reaction. Not likely to ever change. And unless "looking" is somehow followed by some sort of overtly discriminatory behavior not wrong either. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by Serowbot on 01/24/16 at 09:50:38 152720313627300F233029420 wrote:
I think blacks feel a very different set of eyes on them... More like if I were to walk into a room full of billionaires in full riding gear... ;D ... but I can take my gear off... :-? |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/24/16 at 10:33:28 3026312C34212C37430 wrote:
I think blacks feel a very different set of eyes on them... More like if I were to walk into a room full of billionaires in full riding gear... ;D ... but I can take my gear off... :-? [/quote] When we "assign" feelings, or motivation, as to why a person stares, or feels, about any given subject or circumstance, inadvertently we have biased reality on our OWN assumptions. This is natural, it is how we discern, navigate, and interact in life. Many elements go into our perception, including life experiences, and PROPAGANDIZING through various means, school, NEWS, etc. This is where we all except this behavior, as others have shared, as a natural thing of our being, and as you said Bot, our comfort level, as we feel a sense of peace/joy when we operate within its safe perimeters. Now when we try and dictate to others based on our own "feelings" is when the trouble starts....... We can call it Political Correctness, Moral Compass, Societal Norm, whatever, it is nothing more than trying to build an alliance to affirm ones own beliefs. This is natural too, as comfort and safety within assimilation. Tolerance is 100 percent extended, or not at all. You can NOT be sorta pregnant on the matter. To just except we are different, and let it go at that, neither promoting or faulting, is sustainable. Trying to sway those of different strips through legislative, social, courts, etc, will only result in unrest, suspicion and division. Which, is where most of the energy seems to be nowadays :-X |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by WebsterMark on 01/24/16 at 12:03:07 7B4544485A4647290 wrote:
I am not 100% sure about that. I don't think Asians get the same scrutiny as a black man does for example. The question is, is that because of the high percentage of crimes committed by black Americans? in other words, is the extra scrutiny justified in a way? I think that's an important question to answer. I also think it's very politically incorrect what the answer is likely to be. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/24/16 at 12:07:08 Oh, BTW, letting others dictate the way you feel/think, is a mental illness, inferiority complex....... We all suffer from it to one extent or another. This weakness of self is what is used in advertising to get you to buy what they want to sell. A well balanced person would not let stranger live in their mind rent free. You wanna stare at me, fine, it's not because you think lessor of me based on something they perceive, no, it's because I am a feast to behold :-* |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by raydawg on 01/24/16 at 14:48:11 Gee, Bill Maher once again seems to project the truth as I see it. I have always said Trump is only utilizing the angst at Washington, as it has steadily grown since Perot. Only now you have the fragmentation of the white blue collar working leaving, or more to point, being left out, the democratic party, coupled with the right/white, anger too. The story: Backlash To Political Correctness" HBO's Bill Maher talks to comedian Seth MacFarlane, who once hosted the Oscars, about political correctness, Donald Trump and the current outrage directed at the Academy Awards for having no black nominees in the major categories. MacFarlane addresses words that get an "instantaneous knee-jerk reaction." Maher observed you used to have to make a racist joke to be racist, "now you just say something that has to do with race and people hiss." On Friday's broadcast of HBO's Real Time, host Bill Maher had an interesting theory as to why Hollywood, "the biggest liberals in this town," gives leading roles to white males -- to placate the Asian audience. Maher was warned by his guests that he would receive blowback on this thought. And they were right, his commentary is already being dubbed "Maher 'whitesplains' Hollywood's diversity problem." After giving their thoughts on the near all-white Oscars and Hollywood liberal culture, Maher and MacFarlane agreed that Trump is a result of "a backlash to political correctness." MAHER: I don't get the fact that Hollywood is so liberal that someone was just hissing there of a joke that was supportive of black people, just because we mentioned black. See, it's not about -- it's just because you mentioned race. It used to be you had to make a racist joke. Now you just say something that has to do with race and people hiss... The Oscars. The biggest liberals in this town are picking the Oscars. People who said, Academy members who said they did not see 12 Years A Slave still voted for it because they just knew it was the best picture, or should be. Why is there this problem? SETH MacFARLANE: You would have to conduct an in-depth investigation. Is it a problem with the Academy? Is it is a problem that people aren't seeing the movies and saying, 'Oh, I know this person, and I know that film. Oh, this guy is white, too.' Is it it conscious; is it subconscious? Is it a problem with history at large where there is not enough diversity? Which is a criticism often leveled at Hollywood. Everything is speculation. I don't know. MAHER: Part of it is, and this is the dirty little secret, is that most movies are made now in the eyes of a foreign market. And Asians really are racist. ALAN GRAYSON: You just called them racist, which makes you racist. LIZ MAIR: You're going to stoke a ton of outrage now. MAHER: I'm just honest. They are. They don't want to see black people, generally, in their movies. And Hollywood executives are like, 'we're not racist, we just have to pretend we're racists because we're capitalists.' We want to sell our movie in China, so they don't like Kevin Hart. MacFARLANE: It's tricky because it's a liberal town but it's still a business... MAHER: Let's talk a little politics. I know that you feel the same way that I do, that Donald Trump is largely a result of a backlash to political correctness. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/24/16 at 19:29:53 Polite Correctness? Give me a BREAK! It is because the voters are sick of having no voice in D.C. . Power swings from party to party. We Vote the Bums Out! Nothing changes. Anyone who looks like they would shove the stick in the spokes of the establishment, change Status Quo looks attractive to everyone who isn't sold on going down the shitter. Trump screwed the pooch when he announced further support for Ethanol subsidies. If the Free Market won't keep it alive, it's DEAD. Cruz said No more subsidies for anything. Phase it out. He said Anything Done by executive order, can be UNdone by executive order. Do I Trust him? Nope. Do I Trust Trump? ? Nope. But, I Do trust every dem to continue the disaster. I'm on with Cruz, but, whoever is the bub, I'll be supporting. Unless it's a nutjob, like McCain is/was. My focus has been so completely on Trump until Cruz said that, that I really haven't bothered to memorize the names of the others. Yeah, I know Rand is running, but, I just can't get behind him. If his dad was running, I'd be all for him. Ron Paul would have my vote. All that said,,, Nobody who WILL change course will be allowed near the wheel. Should someone manage to get hold of it and start to actually undo the damage, he will get killed or seriously injured and capitulate. I don't believe Reagan was meant to die. Just forced to sit down and shut up. |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by WebsterMark on 01/25/16 at 04:57:14 The topic was blacks and not some nonsense conspiracy theory so lets stay on topic a little bit...... I'm a big fan of acting, movies, and plays. Been in a couple plays, nothing big. Acting is like sales..... I know a guy who directs plays. i went to see his latest a couple weeks ago and he said he always expects to see me show up to read for parts. I remind him I have "warning track power".... anyway, I always watch the Oscars, but not this year. I refuse to be preached to by the likes of Chris Rock, DeCaprio, Damon etc..... |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by Serowbot on 01/25/16 at 08:22:38 I expect a few "whitey" jokes,... but not much lectures... I didn't see "Concussion," or "Straight Outta Compton,"... Will Smith annoys me, plus I'm not interested in sports or gangs... Wouldn't have watched if they had been white either... I get annoyed by the thank you's to God, my publicist, and my manager... ... but, I'll be watching... Like the red carpet show, too... :-* |
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Title: Re: Because I'm Black...... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/01/16 at 05:43:09 675552434455427D51425B300 wrote:
MAHER: Let's talk a little politics. I know that you feel the same way that I do, that Donald Trump is largely a result of a backlash to political correctness. AND I never watch the Oscars, or any draft, or pageant, rarely any sports. And never network news, unless it's just on when I walk in. |
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