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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Wobble? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1451799049 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 01/02/16 at 21:30:49 |
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Title: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/02/16 at 21:30:49 Not to start one of those "Cheap, you're crazy" threads, BUT..... I noticed a little bit of high speed wobble as I passed someone today in a hurry to get to work. I've noticed this before; it tends to happen at higher speeds, and, perhaps, with acceleration. Once, some time ago, I noticed it after coming off a bridge on the Interstate. (I was hurrying to work that day too) :P. I've never gone into a full tank-slapper-- Thank goodness! I wonder... could it be suspension tuning? I think that's supposedly one of the causes. I need to fix my forks. One side leaks very badly, and I think it has lost most of it's power. Should I also increase the preload on the back? I weigh about 200lb? I'd guess that I should fix my forks before increasing the preload since I heard that an imbalance can cause that problem/make it worse. :-? I'm guessing this is the most likely problem. Would stiff suspension help? Thicker fork oil/higher preload? Of course, there could be other possibilities. :-? Anyone have any experiences? Does anyone here have any slight wobbles with bumps/acceleration/high speeds/poor suspension? Maybe it's not really a wobble? :-? :-/ What do I know? :P I'm the Cheap Newb :P ;D Now, this little bike might not be a crotch rocket, but it ought to be stable at the speeds which it can travel, No? ;) |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by thumperclone on 01/02/16 at 21:52:37 your speed? the vehicle you were passing ours is a light weight bike ive had cross winds send me into the left lane and end my days riding |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Kris01 on 01/02/16 at 21:54:36 3B303D3928363D2F3A6A6C580 wrote:
Ding, ding, ding! A winner! ;) |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/02/16 at 22:15:42 Good grief, more possibilities? :P http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1180436373/15 Wheel imbalance wobble at certain speeds?! Windshields (not applicable) ?! Mudflaps?! MUDFLAPS!!!! You've got to be kidding?! ;D Weight distribution.... Basically anything under the sun can cause me to wobble-- possibly even my own riding technique, or lack thereof ::) Will I ever get this figured out? :( It's not much of a wobble, just a little wobble back and forth once or twice, and that's it. It's like an instability arises that causes it to wobble just a little bit. Not scary or unnerving, just concerning. It's the "this could be a problem" idea. :-? It's very noticeable, so it's not nothing. It's not all in my head. ::) It is short of the "I'm gonna die" feeling, though. ;) But then, it doesn't last long enough for that. ::) |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/02/16 at 22:19:06 003922387B7A4B0 wrote:
Ding, ding, ding! A winner! ;) [/quote] You sound very confident. Are you just assuming that it's that because they need to be fixed, and it could affect that, or do you have a lot of experience in this "crappy suspension causes tankslappers" thing? It does seem reasonable... Don't get me wrong. I brought it up myself ::). I just wanted to get some more input on this. Someone said that people sometimes go for years with blown fork seals. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Serowbot on 01/02/16 at 23:32:11 +1,..Kris... Firmer suspension, and heavier oil, will help a bit. too... ...but,... this is a light bike... at speed, the front end will get lighter, and as wind pulls your arms, you lighten it more... If you feel the front end getting light,... use your weight... lean forward... put you head toward the bars... A light bike has many advantages... acceleration, control, ease of maneuvering... but, you ride it, more than ride upon it... When I ride my Sportster,... I'm 145lbs on a 600lb machine... It don't know I'm there... ;D... ...on my Savage,... I have much more control... ...but, I have to exert that control... When outside elements influence it, my input is required, and that point comes sooner on a light bike than a heavy one... A fun experiment,.. is to find a decent set of curves on a seldom traveled road... and run it back and forth... Be safe... ...but slowly increase speed, until stresses are induced... Then, try subtle corrections... lean into the turn a bit... stick a knee out just a little... shift your weight forward... apply throttle... DON"T.. push things into a crash!... let the progress happen comfortably and naturally, without inducing fear... Not 2 or 3 passes... 20 or30... spend a couple hours, take a few breaks... the slightest nervous moment... go home... Come back next week... and start again... DON"T keep pushing until you crash!... ;D Just practice,.. until you can go as fast as is safe for that road,.. and still be able to make a correction if something unexpected happens... Any time you are riding on a public road... you want to be going at a safe enough speed to make a correction in case of, obstacle, animal, hazard, or other driver... Never ride at 100% of your ability... ..(all my solo street crashes, have been pushing past 80% of my ability, and hitting an unexpected obstacle)... Point is,.. they weren't because I went faster than I could handle. I just went faster than was within a safe margin... I'm rambling... ::) Try leaning forward a little... put some weight on the front end... Your bike is trying to take-off... ;D Watch this... 8-) Ride safe... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3OQTU-kE2s [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3OQTU-kE2s[/media] |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by chzeckmate on 01/03/16 at 00:20:30 If Serowbot hadn't posted that video, I would have. I don't think this is your problem though. This bike isn't known to have this wobble for any rider of any size or shape, but there's a first for everything. I'm with Kris..fix your forks first, and I would add that a good tire can make a world of difference. I had a bit of what you're experiencing until I recently changed tires. Problem solved for me. Aside from that, I'd say you're really overthinking this. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/03/16 at 06:00:44 The high speed weave in the video seems similar to what I've been having, but mine goes away very quickly. The effect is very brief. It's like a short little duh-dh (to describe the motion with words), and it's over. It only lasts 2 or (possibly) 3 motions before it corrects itself. The speaker suggests that a worn rear with new (racing) front makes things worse. Hmmm.... I've got a worn rear and new front. The front and racing, and the rear ain't squared off, but it might be enough to be an issue. Put that with a sloppy fork for instability, and who knows? I weigh 200 lb. If I were lighter, what would happen? :-? :o Maybe this is why people like heavy bikes at high speeds. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/03/16 at 06:06:14 06393F3825220A4C0 wrote:
I read some of you talking from time to time about some sort of "riding a drunken cow" feeling. What was this about? I don't really know if this applies to me as I don't have the experience. I am guessing I would feel better on a new tire, though. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/03/16 at 06:08:59 Is the high speed weave influenced by both the suspension and the tire? At the same time? |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/03/16 at 06:14:42 Now that I think of it more, watching the video, I'm not sure exactly how long the weave lasts. It could have lasted for longer than I thought. I just don't remember exactly. I just remember that it never lasted very long. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/03/16 at 06:25:45 033C3A3D20270F490 wrote:
I'm not sure exactly if the man in the video believed that all bikes had this issue, but he did say it has to do with weight, and I think he said that it was not unusual for a well-tuned bike to have it. The Savage is under 400 lb wet, and I am 6'1, so my height could be an issue due to weight distribution. As I said, my weight ought to help, but my weight distribution may not be the best. This may help in part to explain why I have a natural tendency to lean forward a little at speed. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by chzeckmate on 01/03/16 at 07:04:08 Could put some weight in a backpack and go for a ride....might help confirm or rule out the high speed wobble seem in the video. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/03/16 at 07:15:59 I actually ride with a backpack. ;D How much it weighs is another question. :-? Yesterday, I had one of those massive U-shaped bicycle locks (don't use it much). I need a disc lock. ;) I also had my work shoes in there, my hat, and a few little things. Not a whole lot, in other words. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Serowbot on 01/03/16 at 08:07:08 A backpack will likely make things worse... You'll notice the box on back in the video did... Weight must go forward... |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Steve H on 01/03/16 at 08:08:33 You did notice that at one point in the video, he said the slow mo showed the front forks moving independently of each other. That's a good reason to fix your forks. Might also be an indication that a fork brace is in order. It will stiffen and help to lock the 2 sides together. Worn rear, new front was also mentioned as a problem as you pointed out. Back in those days, they had done very little study of wind turbulence on bikes and how it affects the ride. Honda was the first I know of to really study it when they came out with the factory faired Goldwing models. The wind being turbulent may also be a factor. Lying down on the bike will smooth the airflow as well as change the weight distribution. I have nothing to support this supposition though other than they said tail boxes and panniers could exacerbate the condition. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by chzeckmate on 01/03/16 at 08:20:07 7365726F77626F74000 wrote:
Either way it's fine. If it gets better or worse still goes to demonstrate the issue in the video. As for the amount of weight, go up incrementally until you get a result. If you don't get a noticeable difference then you're back to fix the forks and possibly select a different set of tires. Process of elimination. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by pg on 01/03/16 at 14:07:40 I had a horrible wobble at about 55 mph and a T-Kat fork brace did wonders for me, I highly recommend it. [smiley=thumbup.gif] Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by gizzo on 01/03/16 at 14:43:06 1B242225383F17510 wrote:
^This. Some tyres just don't get along with each other, especially when they start wearing out and become squared off.ie: My Ducati hated the Pirelli Phantom rear, Bridgestone Spitfire front combo. A new Battleaxe on the back fixed it. I believe the old airhead BMW's suffered, too. Maybe check your tyre pressures, too. The only time my Cabbage ever shook it's head was when I had 15 psi in the back. Could be the road, too. Some grooves or tar snakes making it tramline? |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/04/16 at 09:19:55 Maybe this is why they say hard-mounted Sportsters handle better? :-? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvDI2dmzDEA Can anyone tell me how to imbed YT videos? |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Serowbot on 01/04/16 at 09:54:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvDI2dmzDEA Select, "insert Media" icon... Paste URL... cut the "s" from "https" in the url... Code:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvDI2dmzDEA[/media] |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/04/16 at 09:59:13 000B0602130D0614015157630 wrote:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvDI2dmzDEA[/media] Okay, Got it! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] My first YouTube imbed anywhere, I think. :) |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/04/16 at 18:44:26 No one finds this interesting? |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Art Webb on 01/05/16 at 09:00:15 That's a Dyna, not a Sporty I know of very few people who claim a hardtail handles better. and those who do usually base that on 'feels' rather than empirical evidence In racing, they spend thousands of $ lowering the weight of a bike by 2lb in the name of speed Do you know how much a suspension weighs over a hardtail? And yet no race bikes run hardtail frames Interesting, no? |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by chzeckmate on 01/05/16 at 11:42:19 01121417050202600 wrote:
Well said. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Dave on 01/05/16 at 13:46:30 59525F5B4A545F4D58080E3A0 wrote:
I really don't care if a DYNA wobbles.....I most likely will never own one. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/05/16 at 18:11:01 Uhh...I was talking about a solidly mounted ENGINE vs rubber-mounted ENGINE, not suspension. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by verslagen1 on 01/05/16 at 19:43:42 272C2125342A2133267670440 wrote:
cheapy, nobody knows what you're talking about. 43484541504E4557421214200 wrote:
23282521302E2537227274400 wrote:
when you don't explain yourself. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/05/16 at 20:38:38 Yeah, I guess I kinda made an ASSumption there. ::) ;) |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Dave on 01/06/16 at 06:11:51 545F525647595240550503370 wrote:
Well it seems that Harley mounted the DYNA engine/transmission in rubber to soak up the vibration - then attached the swing arm pivot point to the transmission case. As a result the swing arm is not all that rigid and can flex around a bit. (Still doesn't bother me.....as I won't ever own one). |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Art Webb on 01/06/16 at 07:41:57 OK I see where the confusion came from, when you saif 'hard mounted' I read 'hard tailed' probably because I had just been on a thread about hard tails My mistake and Sporties outhandle Dynas for a myriad of reasons, including the dumbass way HD mounted the rear swingarm I believe the Sporty swingarm is mounted to the frame, as it should be on a proper motorcycle |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/06/16 at 07:56:51 The guy in the video mentions an extra bushing or something that he removed in order to make the demonstration, so there is a little something else holding the swingarm. ::) Gotta give Harley that much. ::) So they attached the swingarm to the engine, not the frame? :o That's dumb! :P :P |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by oldNslow on 01/06/16 at 08:22:06 Quote:
Take a look at a Ducati Panigale. The swingarm bolts to, and pivots on, the back of the crankcase. That bike is pretty much a street legal roadracer. Top speed around 200 mph. I don't think they wobble. There are a lot of different ways to make a motorcycle. |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by cheapnewb24 on 01/06/16 at 08:29:00 Okay! Okay! I should have been a little more open-minded to more creative ways of designing frames, but I bet the Ducati engine is solidly attached to the rest of the frame. Or is it? :-? Did Ducati use rubber mounts everywhere? I have some doubts that a rubbery flexible frame is a good thing, considering that some bikes have been considered dangerous with frame flex? :-? Gotta beat on Harley! ;D |
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Title: Re: Wobble? Post by Art Webb on 01/06/16 at 08:36:05 Ducati doesn't mount their engine with rubber mounts you can flex by hand, that's for sure Yes you can mount a swingarm to the engine cases, I just think it's not a good idea, but race bikes often have minimalist frames, with the engine a stressed member and not much left for a pivot point remember a race team will spend thousands to save 2 pounds, and they have mucho funds to replace broken parts |
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