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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Does it really promote violence? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1449910201 Message started by pg on 12/12/15 at 00:50:01 |
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Title: Does it really promote violence? Post by pg on 12/12/15 at 00:50:01 I was curious to learn a bit more about the religion of peace. Is it rhetoric or does it really promote violence? Perhaps, this will help. And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers. (Quran 2:191-193) Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for Allah’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. (Quran 4:34) They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper. (Quran 4:89) This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement. (Quran 5:33) When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ˜I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them! (Quran 8:12) Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to strike terror in the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged. (Quran 8:60) Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. (Quran 9:5) Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled. (Quran 9:29) Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph. (Quran 9:111) O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing. (Quran 9:123) When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray. (Quran 47:4) http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/05/pamela-geller-loretta-lynch-wants-ban-violent-talk-ban-quran/ Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by raydawg on 12/12/15 at 06:23:14 Some of the passages are startling if they stand alone, I agree, but so are many in the the Bible, the old testament especially. Context is everything when reading scripture, and I must believe that holds true to the Quran. I still think this whole refugee episode in history might prove a boon to religion as a whole. As I stated, the Muslims are much more overt and praise their faith openly. We have some at work who kneel down and pray, at work. To my knowledge no one has complained. We also had a bible study group that was challenged, but the company allowed it as long as it was done "off the clock" ;) I don't know how public policy will change, but I am pretty certain it will be challenged in our courts, like the christian cake baker, if considerations are not taken into effect for those of Islamic faith. We shall see. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by DesertRat on 12/12/15 at 11:43:53 Raydawg nailed it ... "...Context is everything when reading scripture..." or reading anything for that matter: Grab an econ book or business ethics or the bio of Warren Buffet and pick a paragraph and then pick a sentence from that = WTF ;) "...Context is everything when reading..." |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/12/15 at 17:49:46 7C6F776A6F79690E0 wrote:
I doubt the Bible is nearly as bad as the Quran for promoting violence, regardless of context... But then, I have never really read the Quran. The Biblical passages where God directly commands people to outright violence have mostly to do with Israel's conquest and defense of their Promised Land. On the other hand, I would guess that the Quran is more concerned with conquering the world :o. But, who am I to say? Can anyone correct me? I have heard the idea that once Islam has conquered some place, it is under Islam forever, or something. I think this may explain some of the desire for jihad. In short, the Bible encourages conquering the world with the Gospel and with love while the Quran promotes conquering the world with the sword :o. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by LostArtist on 12/12/15 at 17:51:32 This kind of relates to this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuDZP-v_dXw |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by pg on 12/14/15 at 11:16:09 Can anyone correct me? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzOVSMUrGM[/media] I googled him and he is not fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Rachid Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by WebsterMark on 12/14/15 at 11:38:58 The question about the Koran in my mind is this: The Old Testament in the Bible records God demanded his followers kill their enemies in extremely violent ways. Ways that ISIS hasn't thought of. However, as the Jewish people 'settle in' from a Biblical point of view, the message shifts. The New Testament and the message of Jesus do away with the concept of a Kingdom on Earth and shift to the Kingdom of God, which is not based on earthly land, material goods etc... The Bible ends with instructions to love your neighbor, those who live by the sword die by the sword, turn the other cheek, when a thief ask you for your coat give him your shirt too. In other words, the violence of the Old Testament was necessary to establish a nation and now that it's established, peace should reign going forward and the Gospel is to be preached, but violence is not demanded to those who reject. In the place of violence is prayer and love. Now, I've not studied the Koran. Maybe someone on here has. My question is simply this: Does the Koran indicate modern day Muslims are in the middle of their version of the Bible's Old Testament? Meaning the violence will have a 'closing date'? Or does the Koran indicate there is no close to violence until all are converted or dead? Any thoughts on that? |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by HovisPresley on 12/14/15 at 12:17:11 "Meaning the violence will have a closing date"... Mark, does the USA have a closing date in it's foreign affairs? It seems that the score at the moment (postww2) is 103 'invasions' to 0 'invaded by'. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by WebsterMark on 12/14/15 at 12:46:41 How about you start a different thread on that topic. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by pg on 12/14/15 at 14:52:39 1B3C253A20032136203F362A530 wrote:
Here is a link with terrorist attacks specifically targeting Christians since 911. The victims are innocent Christians who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/ChristianAttacks.htm Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by HovisPresley on 12/14/15 at 15:47:21 The comment was about the concept of Mark's "closing dates", and questions any 'force' such as ISIS (for example) or US military (for example) ever having a closing date :-? |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by WebsterMark on 12/14/15 at 16:28:40 Which is a stretch applying to this thread,.......hijacker! |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/15 at 17:38:22 I don't see it as a stretch, at all. There is no hijacking. He makes a good point. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by WebsterMark on 12/14/15 at 18:53:03 No, he's going back to a discussion we had before. The topic of this thread is: does the Koran promote violence. US military actions going back to WWII doesn't really apply. My question stands and I'd like those knowledgeable with the Koran to comment: Are today's Muslims in the middle of their version of the Old Testament or is the incitement towards violence in the Koran open ended? |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/15 at 19:03:57 Well, I spose it is your thread. And, maybe you are correct. But, dates got mentioned, and that kinda opened a door. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by WebsterMark on 12/14/15 at 19:16:09 It's not my thread and no one mentioned WWII dates and US invasion until Hovis came in out of left field. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/15 at 19:26:36 Ohh, it's Not your thread, yet, you're unhappy, and the OP is okay, and I think I saw mention of dates before hovis said hoot. Holler and squawk, whatever. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by WebsterMark on 12/14/15 at 19:37:31 I give Jog. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by HovisPresley on 12/14/15 at 20:45:54 Mark, in reply #6 you talked of "a closing date" on violence. You then finished by saying "Any thoughts on that?" I typed my thoughts on the subject in response. I believe it to be relevant, as do others. Changing your question from using the words 'closing date?' to 'open-ended?' ...... it's still the same question ::) |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by MnSpring on 12/14/15 at 20:53:18 " ... At some point, stupid starts looking like camouflage for sabotage. ....," This is very interesting, because, tonight I was at a Auction, tools, (like I need more), Estate, Local, well liked person. Guessing at the start, (where their were 450 numbers out), probably 1/5 were related by blood or marriage to the deceased. Anyway while talking to a fellow who I know, (who has/still does, driven a Propane truck for the last 35 years, and knows a LOT of, ‘local’, people). He said the thought, he was getting, from people he talked to was; ‘Bama Don’t want to leave’, and, Bama, is going to, allow, or, ‘orchestrate’, as much $hit as he can. So he can, ‘just before the election’, declare, “Martial Law”, (for the ‘greater good’, of course), to continue on being the POTUS. Now, I think, that is, Complete, full size, ’tin foil hat stuff’, that it would be successful, ONLY IF, the, ‘wanna be King’, succeeded, in taking away firearms, from the Citizens, (which the last 7 years have been tried with a full court press). BUT, if the, ‘Fairy Dust’ Sprinklers, WERE, successful, in removing the way for a Citizen of the USA to, DEFEND. Perhaps a, ’tin foil, ‘beanie’. ? Don’t know. Just heard this idea tonight, from people, in this County, (Who, unlike the rest of MN, are Very Conservative people). And for Hovis: who said: “ … the score at the moment (postwar) is 103 ‘invasions’ to 0 ‘invaded by’. ..." Can you think of a reason, that the Japanese, after they decimated Pearl Harbor, did not move on to the Mainland of the U.S, and Invade, (to which the Admiral of the Japanese fleet, was severally chastised for). And he gave his, ‘reason’, After the War ended ? And, Hovis, you do not consider that, ’Terrorist’, attacks, like 9/11, (Fort Hood, Boston, Calf, etc, etc, etc, etc,) are, Invasion? Because you have NOT, added them to, your, list ? Or is, 'invasion', only, when their are feet on the ground. Or is, 'invasion', only when delivered by airplane, or missile. Apparently, 'invasion, is NOT, when a person straps a bomb to their back, or, sets one down on a crowded street, or, when 2 people attack, a, 'Gun free Zone',. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by HovisPresley on 12/14/15 at 21:15:45 Quote MnS: "Apparently, 'invasion, is NOT, ......" ..................................................... I chose the generally-accepted/dictionary version of "invasion", sorry for any confusion. Edit; Japan/Pearl Harbor is for a different thread. But, I think I'll share this to wet your appetite: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/misquoting-yamamoto/ |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/15/15 at 09:00:26 Maybe he said it, maybe not, but would have been correct. Americans would have swarmed the invaders. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by Paraquat on 12/15/15 at 09:20:10 I agree with Mark that it's off topic... But, when in Rome... Why not meddle in affairs? The affairs of other countries are not our concern. It's my personal belief that these events should be allowed to play out organically until such point as involvement becomes necessary (TO A DEGREE). What I'm saying, my personal belief here, is that if there is another Axis of Evil we should get involved. If there is another Pearl Harbor, we should get involved. If there's an uprising in the Middle East, we should NOT get involved. But, on the other side of the coin: The US is (was?) the leading super power so why wouldn't it be our responsibility to act as the older sibling and guide the younger brethren? Other countries are not our concern, but as the leading power don't we have an obligation to help them? And to what end? --Steve |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/15/15 at 09:38:10 LOOK at the places where We have HELPED. Would you want some help ? |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by Paraquat on 12/15/15 at 11:03:07 That's another discussion... like how we use NGA's to subvert native governments. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by MnSpring on 12/15/15 at 11:18:47 1B3C253A20032136203F362A530 wrote:
Their is very often stated ‘quote’ by General Dwight D. Eisenhower. (on Holocaust denial) “Get it all on record now – get the films – get the witnesses – because somewhere down the track of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened.” That was a Paraphrase. And has been stated Many times, Long before the Internet, was even invented. What, Eisenhower did say, In a Letter: "The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit [to Gotha] deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”. And already, their has been a group of people that have said, “The Holocaust never happened”. (Kinna like, ‘Man never landed on the Moon', or, ’The world is flat’.) Isoroku Yamamoto has been attributed to saying: “ I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” No definite written or recorded proof of that, (Statement thanks to Hollywood). So it is probably a paraphrase of what he DID say, and is proven that he did: “ A military man can scarcely pride himself on having "smitten a sleeping enemy"; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack.” Also, Isoroku Yamamoto has been attributed to saying: “ You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass” No definite written or recorded proof of that either. So probably a paraphrase, and combination to two things he Actually said: “In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success.” and, “The fiercest serpent may be overcome by a swarm of ants.” (It took just 6 months until the Japanese defeat at Midway) I wonder what, your thoughts would be to the quote: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”, attributed to Margaret Thatcher. Which were not, the, ‘exact’ words she said. The, ‘EXACT’ words she said were: "I would much prefer to bring them down as soon as possible. I think they've made the biggest financial mess that any government's ever made in this country for a very long time, and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them. They then start to nationalise everything, and people just do not like more and more nationalisation, and they're now trying to control everything by other means. They're progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by HovisPresley on 12/15/15 at 19:30:48 So now to Ike, the Holocaust, Thatcher and socialism ? "What a tangled thread we weave....." |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/15/15 at 21:13:16 This thread is a mess! :o How come it many of you can go rambling on about nonsensical politics/conspiracy stuff? The best thread here is that video on page 1 of this thread. Clear as a bell, and strikes at the heart of the topic. I'm not even trying to get this nonsense. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by HovisPresley on 12/15/15 at 21:31:05 5C575A5E4F515A485D0D0B3F0 wrote:
........................................... You mean you didn't enjoy the story about the guy with the propane truck and the auction? :o ;D |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/15/15 at 21:41:54 092E372832113324322D2438410 wrote:
........................................... You mean you didn't enjoy the story about the guy with the propane truck and the auction? :o ;D [/quote] Huh? :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/15/15 at 21:43:51 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (Still laughing) |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/15/15 at 21:48:12 Okay, now I actually know what you're talking about. It sounded like random stuff so I thought it was hilarious. |
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Title: Re: Does it really promote violence? Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/15/15 at 21:54:25 I've heard of rumors or prophecies or something about something happening to America that is so bad that Obama stays in office as dictator and that he would be America's last president. Well, September 23, 2015 came and went, along with December 2012. Next thing you know, the tin foil hatters will have the next end of the world date laid out. You watch now, this one's gonna be the big one ;D Big Bertha now... ;D Wait for it!... (cue whoopie cushion) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :P ;D ;D ;D |
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