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Message started by Rodger on 12/07/15 at 18:13:46

Title: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Rodger on 12/07/15 at 18:13:46

I bought my S40 on Dec 2nd...my first brand new cycle since 1984...and I'm loving the bike. So much more fun than my 2002 Nomad 1500FI! I just turned 60 miles on the odometer, btw.

I have 2 questions, though: when I let off the throttle, there's a whine that I can't explain, which sounds like it's coming from the front of the engine. This is my first belt-drive bike, and I checked the belt tension "a la" the U-Tube video I found here and it seems to be correct for the fingertip-slack-90°-twist check. I removed the front sprocket cover and noted a very small amount of what serms to be black rubber dust. I'm wondering if the whine could be the belt, or is this just a characteristic of the S40?

Is such a whine normal for this bike? Again, I only hear it on deceleration.

#2: After the first 30 miles, the disc brake began to squeal. I haven't been engaging in hard braking or riding the brake, so I wouldn't think the pads are glazed.

Since I'm new to this forum, a bit about me:
*began riding in 1972 and have owned various models of all 4 major Japanese bikes, plus 3 BMW's
*have many years experience as an amatuer mechanic on a variety of gas engines from lawnmowers to heavy farm trucks.
*I have a fairly extensive toolkit from my 5 years of working on cars and trucks for a living.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/15 at 18:23:57

Good to have you. Once it's broken in, you'll dig it..
The belt can sure whine.
It's easy to lug it off the line till it frees up inside.

Search
bedding brake pads

Some interesting stuff there.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by verslagen1 on 12/07/15 at 19:18:38

welcome to the club 8-)

343A2C2E26202B430 wrote:

when I let off the throttle, there's a whine that I can't explain, which sounds like it's coming from the front of the engine. This is my first belt-drive bike, and I checked the belt tension "a la" the U-Tube video I found here and it seems to be correct for the fingertip-slack-90°-twist check. I removed the front sprocket cover and noted a very small amount of what seems to be black rubber dust. I'm wondering if the whine could be the belt, or is this just a characteristic of the S40?

Is such a whine normal for this bike? Again, I only hear it on deceleration.

I've never had a new one, so add salt.
Mine does not whine on acc/dec, but it does grumble pop on decel, and I hoot and haller on accel. 8-)
I seen several with the whine thou and it wasn't hard to fix them with belt alignment. If you can get the belt to ride in the center of the pulleys, that won't be the cause of the whine. (just don't seat your girlfriend back there for too long, most obnoxious whine ever)
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1260147857/0

Quote:

#2: After the first 30 miles, the disc brake began to squeal. I haven't been engaging in hard braking or riding the brake, so I wouldn't think the pads are glazed.

noisy brakes are another issue, as long as you have stock pads you'll have it from time to time.
brake dust seemed to be the issue on my bike, also moisture which I don't have a lot of in california.
wash the brake dust off and it'll be quiet for awhile.
since I've vented my disk and don't use stock pads I haven't had the issue. Get the kevlar pads when you're ready, but they're just called organic due to the trademarked name.
but in the mean time, burn off the moisture by braking hard a few times. it works for the front and back.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by jcstokes on 12/07/15 at 22:50:34

No disrespect to Verslagen, but just be aware, the rear brake has a tendency to lock up under hard braking, you are an experienced rider Rodger, but just be aware of this fact.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/15 at 04:30:39

If the rear isn't acting right, nothing says you can't get going in first, keep the gas on and step on the brake. I've dried car brakes that way many times.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Dave on 12/08/15 at 04:38:37

Both my Cafe' conversion and the stock bike I bought recently have a small bit of whine when slowing down. It could be that it will go away as the mileage increases....they only have 7,000 and 4,000 miles on them. It seems to be a bit louder when in the lower gears....so I suspect it is the transmission or primary drive, and may be the high amount of engine breaking available on the Savage is part of the cause. I would just ride it and not worry about it....I don't.

The EBC Organic pads seem to be the brake pad of choice for this bike. They work well, are easy on the rotor, and affordable. The stock pads tend to be noisy....you can take them off and scuff them up with a bit of flat sandpaper on a flat surface - but the noise will come back.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Steve H on 12/08/15 at 04:39:07

There have been a couple threads on here about the whine on decel. Sounds like an old army jeep decelerating or an old truck. If I remember right, there are several people out here who have the noise and it doesn't seem to be a problem, just a characteristic of the bike. Mine has done it since the day I got it. It was 25 years old at the time, though.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/15 at 04:42:08

Ride a while, stick a Dyna on it, then see if the whine
Goes away.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Kris01 on 12/08/15 at 05:09:37

Mine does it. I've always thought it was the belt.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/15 at 06:09:01

I've seen whining caused by a belt,
and I've seen whining stopped, by a belt.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Rodger on 12/08/15 at 06:22:51

Thanks for all the input.

The deceleration whine is mostly around town, gears 1-3. I haven't had it up to highway speeds much so far, just a few roll-ons in 4th to 55, upshifting to 5th. Am varying speeds & engine loading during break in.

The rear brake is quiet, & I know about drumbrake lock-up...experienced that on my '82 Honda CM450 "back in the day." Going to try camferring leading edge of disc brake pads and scuffing them with medium grit sandpaper (sandpaper taped to a mirror, moving pads over sandpaper to keep as flat as possible).

Weather is warm enough to ride the next couple of days here in Colorado, but will do the pads & check belt & sprocket alignment when Ma Nature " gets ugly" later in the week. Will let y'all know what I find.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/15 at 06:43:34

I cut grooves across, ditched about 1/3 rd of the surface area,chamfered them . Much better,

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Rodger on 12/09/15 at 19:17:15

Took brake pads off last night, throughly sanded and put a slight camfer on each end of both pads' friction surface. The squeal wasn't completely eliminated, but only hear it just as pads contact the disc, and I can live with that.

We'll see how long it lasts.

Thanks again for the help.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/09/15 at 20:15:39

Can you feel the pedal before it locks up?

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by stewmills on 12/09/15 at 20:44:18

i had front brake squeal for 5000 miles, despite several attempts to fix, until i got ebc organic. i sanded off the edges on my bench grinder for good measure. work great and quiet as a mouse.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by KennyG on 12/09/15 at 22:43:53

Stew,

Where did you purchase the brake pads?

Kenny G

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Rodger on 12/10/15 at 06:14:59

@justin_o_guy2....

Seems we're talking about different things, here. The brake squeal I was getting was from front disc brake, not rear drm brake; however...

I rode to a nearby church parking lot and did some braking practice to see how the new S40 reacts to various braking procedures:

--both brakes applied medium-hard...bike squats a bit on front suspension, but stops quickly/easily.

--front disc brake only...still controllable, but more front fork squat/compression.

--rear brake only...as expected, much longer stopping distance, but controllable. No rear wheel slide, no brake squeal.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/10/15 at 08:49:56

Good to hear, Roger. Oversensitive rear brake was a big deal for me. I could hardly feel any feedback before it locked. No way to modulate the pressure and vary the braking force.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Rodger on 12/10/15 at 09:12:44

Right. While disc brakes transfer only the amount of force the operator uses, drum brakes are "self-actuating"...almost as if the turning force was "screwing" the brake shoes into the drum, increasing the braking force without the rider pushing any harder. Single-leading shoe brakes (like on rear of Savage/S40) seem to be worse for this than the double-leading shoe brakes that were on cycle front wheels before disc brakes (like on my gone-but-not-forgotten 1973 Honda CB350K4).

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by stewmills on 12/10/15 at 13:11:26

7658537E4F5C4E553D0 wrote:

Stew,

Where did you purchase the brake pads?

Kenny G

Amazon. EBC Organic Brake Pads FA106
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GRZEZI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by engineer on 12/10/15 at 13:44:13

My belt whines on deceleration and it can also squeal pretty good during normal running. At first I thought it was gear whining. Once I realized it was the belt I tried careful alignment of the rear wheel and that didn't help. Now I periodically spray it down with WD-40 and it sounds much better.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Rodger on 12/11/15 at 07:16:33

Another less expensive kevlar set w/free shipping:

http://www.amazon.com/2005-2011-Suzuki-Boulevard-Kevlar-Carbon/dp/B00CQBFRDQ/ref=pd_sbs_263_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=41SWccmfZWL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0EXX6R2A34GDCBKEBEZM

Amazon says they fit 2005-2011 S40 Boulevard. Have no personal experience with them since I just turned over 100 miles on my 2015 and have a ways to go before OEM pad replacement. :)

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/06/16 at 19:25:13

I am having a similar problem with my front disk brake, it wines all the time, I started to noticed after a trip (600 miles), and I have the felling that the brakes are always braking my front wheel, not much.

I do not know if i have a warped disk or if it is something in the caliper.

What do you thing it could be :-??

I will upload a video in the first change i get

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/16 at 19:54:35

Pry the pads away from the disk, see if you can shift the caliper back and forth. If not, you need to clean up and lube the pins it floats on.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/06/16 at 23:47:17

617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:

Pry the pads away from the disk, see if you can shift the caliper back and forth. If not, you need to clean up and lube the pins it floats on.

Ok. i will do that, thanks!

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/07/16 at 23:03:08

How many force does the caliper piston needs to return to its original position?

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/07/16 at 23:14:14

Not a lot, really. You're sliding a cup in an o ring. Pushing fluid back up into the master cylinder. It's not gonna wanna move fast.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/08/16 at 00:03:13

Tnx. I cleaned the piston (black thing) and purged the master cylinder, I just tested driving and braking and the noise has vanished.

I should test it a little more before going to road.

thanks to averyone for your advices! ;)

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/09/16 at 17:57:07

After rolling on the city I noticed that the squeak is coming back slowly. I think the problem is in the caliper piston, it is not returning after releasing the brake lever.

I suspect 2 things

Master cylinder it's not fully sealed or

the piston has a lot of brake pad residues (I already cleaned with a toothbrush)

What do you think? :-/

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/16 at 20:54:55

Pry the pads away from the disk.
Manually shift the caliper back and forth.
Hard?
Clean and lube the pins.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Art Webb on 05/10/16 at 07:17:23

JOG is giving you good advise, if the caliper can't float, it'll cause problems

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/14/16 at 11:15:00

It is hard to move the piston, so I will clean it very well, tnx for the advices JOG and ArtWebb

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/16 at 12:01:37

The piston is gonna be a bit of a struggle to move. Once it IS moved, then the entire caliper should be able to slide back and forth on the pins. If not, that is where to put some oil and push and pull until it moves easily. If that doesn't work, then remove the caliper and clean up the pins and holes , lube, reassemble, test.
The better the piston moves, yes, the easier the pads move off the disk. The brakes cool better, you're not spending horsepower on brakes dragging, lots of pluses. Fancy racing brakes positively disengage the pads from the disk when you let off the brake. Standard brakes rely on vibration to settle away from the disk and they are not usually completely off the disk.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/14/16 at 16:41:35

what kind of oil i should use?

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/16 at 19:14:44

Depends. If it's sticky but moving, penetrating oil. Kroil, PB Blaster, 50/50 mix of transmission fluid and , heck, can't remember... someone will.
If it's not stuck, a few drops of motor oil, Three in One, or, if you have it apart, some Antisieze goes a long way.

It's a skills level/ judgment thing.
It's Got to float in and out. That's a must. Same thing is true about the car brakes. People slap pads on and wonder why they wear out one side.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/15/16 at 14:13:15

Tnx, its moving but really hard, I have penetrating oil, i will go with that

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/16 at 14:29:23

With the piston pressed into the caliper and the pads away from the disk, the caliper is supposed to slide easily on the pins.
Push it one way, clean the pins up, push the other way, clean up the pins.
You can take it apart and clean and lube or get serious with it and wrestle with it.
You Might have no choice but take it apart...
But, I would wrestle a while before I walked into it.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/15/16 at 17:44:48

I took aparta the other parts, changed the fluid, butI did not had the guts to take apart the piston.

Tomorrow i will go to a mechanic.
:-/

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/16 at 17:50:22

Sorry to hear it.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/15/16 at 20:48:11

I t started to move easier but not enough, maybe the dust seal is very dirty and need to be replaced. But thanks a lot!

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/16 at 21:01:27

What are you trying to move? Once the piston is pushed in and the brake pads pushed away from the disk, the dust seal is not part of the equation.
What have you actually Done to clean the pins?

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/15/16 at 23:18:29

just used brake cleaner on the piston and the pin after removing the brake pads.

http://https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13239381_10208362099103587_1639061271832029035_n.jpg?oh=2f8cd90010a46fab17af1a6dae95e2bd&oe=57DF9D75

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/16 at 00:40:04

Well, read my posts. Brake cleaner isn't oil.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Art Webb on 05/16/16 at 08:50:16

Ok, do this before seeing a mechanic
Pull the caliper off the bike
do not disconnect the hose
push the piston back into the caliper till you feel it seat
clean the pins
apply anti seize or grease to the pins
reinstall the caliper, but don't touch the brake lever
does the caliper slide freely on the pins? you should be good
if the caliper still doesn't slide on the pins, not so much
if the caliper slides smoothly on the pins but the brakes are still sticking, then you go after the caliper

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/16 at 11:05:51

I said lube.
He asked
What kinda oil can I use?
Pretty sure I didn't suggest brake cleaner.

I can't really See the diagram as well as I would like, but im thinking the

clean the pins

part might be a bit beyond the skill set. I don't think he really understands what they are.

The internals of the caliper is usually dependable, those pins corrode, steel and aluminum, but I don't know how to better explain how to do it.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by pam on 05/16/16 at 11:22:51

this is my problem too... 2015 s 40 new.. about 35 miles now.. but my front brake is driving me nuts squeeking or screaching i would say... i wi order the EBC pads,,, and hope it works...

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/16 at 11:26:12

OEM brakes aren't the best, but, why start off spending money if you can avoid it?

Workshop: How to bed in disc brake pads - BikeRadar
BikeRadar › gear › article › workshop-h...
Aug 19, 2011 - Well set up disc brakes provide powerful, consistent stopping. But when you fit new pads or rotors, ...
Bedding In Brake Rotors
brakeperformance.com › bedding-in-rotors
Bedding In Brake Rotors. Anytime you install new brake rotors, brake pads, or both, it's advantageous to bed in your ...
Brake Tech Information - Brake Pad & Rotor Bed-In Procedures
www.tirerack.com › tech › techpage
All brake pads must be bedded-in with the rotor they will be used against to maximize brake performance. The bedding-in process involves a gradual build up of heat in the rotors and pad compound. ... Failure to follow these procedures may result in brake judder, excessive noise, or ...
How to Bed-in Brake Pads - The Best Technique for Bedding in ...
www.autoanything.com › brakes › how-t...
Brake-pad bedding is an important process that removes impurities from the surface of the brake pad and lays down a ...

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/20/16 at 13:10:33

4B545255484F7E4E7E46545813210 wrote:

Probably you are right. I asumed the pin is the cylindrical bar that guides the brake pads. but I am now thinking you are talking about other thing, I am very visual, if you post a photo with marks I will understand you better.

tanx man for all your time! I really need to fix the brake

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/20/16 at 15:52:32

If I knew how, I would have already done it. I already did the
Thousand words thing.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/21/16 at 13:03:32

6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:

If I knew how, I would have already done it. I already did the
Thousand words thing.

Sorry man. This weekend i will read again all the tread carefully. English is not my native language.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/21/16 at 16:56:23

I know, and I'm not being critical. If I could help you better, I would. We are at the end of my ability, and I just hope either someone steps in and fills in the gaps that I simply can't fill or you study the equipment and read what I said and figure out what the pins are that the caliper slides on.
I sold mine a few years ago and exactly how it is built escapes me, but every caliper on every disk brake must
Float freely, or, it will wear pads unevenly and fail to release properly.

Is the inside pad more worn than the one directly pushed by the piston?

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/22/16 at 19:50:12

Know I know you were referring to the floating pins, I could not understand you because in the clymer's manual they call them special bolt.

I found that ones work well but the other has a cut and the seal is broken.

I need to buy new ones

:)

332C2A2D30370636063E2C206B590 wrote:

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 05/29/16 at 18:14:10

Ok. Now i have done everything i have been told.
Clean the pins. And add new brake grease.
Took the piston out and clean it
Cleaned both rubber seals.

But the squeak continues. Maybe the little cut in one the seal on the floating pin is enough to make the system fail.
I will buy new ones before give up.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/29/16 at 18:29:29

OEM pads squeal.
If it's squealing After the brake is released, the caliper is not working right.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 06/09/16 at 12:50:05

Update:
I have been working on the brakes and the squealing has reduced, also the brakes aren't getting too hot, like before, but i think i need to buy the seals of the floating pins.

I am happy because i am half way :)

554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:

OEM pads squeal.
If it's squealing After the brake is released, the caliper is not working right.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/16 at 13:35:33

Have you used Antisieze on the pins?

What lubricant have you used?

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 06/10/16 at 14:06:14

Went to the autoshop and buyed some small packages of brake grease

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/16 at 21:24:34

What have you done to address the inside of the hole s the pins run in?

Without assembling On the bike, have you played with it on the bench and checked to see if it is free?

I'm really trying,, I am..

With the piston pushed all the way in, pads pushed away from the rotor, the caliper SHOULD, MUST,,, be able to be moved in and out, until you get that, you aren't winning.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 06/11/16 at 10:36:47

I know you are trying hard. I really appreciate your effort.

I took out the pins, and removed the old grease and add new one, it moves freely now but one of the pins seal have a tiny cut and air filter out and inside when the part is pressed

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/16 at 21:03:47

Does the caliper slide back and forth with the piston pressed in and the pads pushed away from the rotor?

If not, look for a rough edge, file it, get the thing to slide.
Ride.
You can order parts later.

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy
Post by Albert Verdugo on 06/19/16 at 16:18:30

Thanks i will check it out!

After trying a lot, i gave up, tomorrow i will take the motorcycle to a mechanic. :-/

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by Albert Verdugo on 08/18/16 at 19:23:00

UPDATE, problem solved!

Replaced disk brake

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy disc
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/16 at 01:29:18

The whole thing? Caliper?

Title: Re: New 2015 S40...deceleration whine & noisy
Post by Albert Verdugo on 08/19/16 at 12:50:38

just the DISK!

I supose the disk warped on a long trip i made at the begining of the year.

Because the caliper was dirty and stuck and i think that cause a lot of heat and friction.
but after following your instructions JoG the caliper worked fine, but the disk was already bad.