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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Evil Rear Tire /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1449445360 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 15:42:40 |
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Title: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 15:42:40 In the aftermath of my trip into Devil's Fork and the subsequent crash, something has been amiss with my rear tire. Albeit, today was the first day I rode it on the asphalt since the day of my crash so I haven't much opportunity to get used to it again. Here is the condition of the rear tire. It is an 8 year old Metzler ME880 140/80-15 (date code 5007). It has a reasonable amount of tread left on it. It is a relatively flat tire, both from wear and profile design. Compared to a new Metzler I felt at a shop, the rubber is much softer than mine. It is also worthy to note that the left hand peg is broken off with a ring that slides back and forth on a stub. I am sure that does not help handling very much :P. I am not sure whether it is an underlying mechanical problem, old rubber, broken peg-- Or, simply that it is all in my head :-/ ::), but this rear tire feels like it has a mind of its own. I believe the tire pressure was slightly under or around 30 lb in both front and rear. The ride was softer, but the handling slow and mushy. I then brought them to about 36 rear, 32 front, and then it seemed better, quicker, more confidence inspiring. However, there was still something nagging me. That rear tire just doesn't feel secure. Can't trust it. Feels like it has a mind of its own; unstable. Maybe I'm just scared of it, and its all in my head. It does remind me of how that 83 Shadow felt when the PO took me for a ride on the back, and that tire was bald and low on air, I believe. Kinda felt like the rear was sliding out, but it wasn't. The feeling is not exactly the same but very similar. For example, after turning onto my driveway, (on wet gravel/leaves, whatever), the rear slid out. I could say, "Well, I just hit a slick spot," but I'm not so sure. I get the feeling that the rear is wanting to go sideways. When I lean, the handling gets funny. I suspect that due to possible chicken strips forming. Could the wheel be loose or something? Frame? Suspension? Anything but the rubber? I noticed that the crash caused some new belt squeaking. Misalignment? Not saying that the belt was centered beforehand, but it may be rubbing the pulley side now, causing the squeak. The swing arm marks are approximately the same on both sides. Do tires just suddenly decide they hate you, or is this something that I just didn't notice? I've put 1000 miles on that old tire since I bought it. Or Maybe that tire's haunted by the Devil :D BWAHAHAHAHA! :D |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/06/15 at 16:01:46 Thanks for the whole post, but, Eight Years Old, flat profile. Done. Decide what miles per year you're gonna run. Buy a tire to last three years. I was happy with one summer. I rode like a madman as often as not. The name of the tire escapes me, Ohh, Dunlop, I think.. I USED the snot slick, you're gonna lowside any second, OEM tire to help me regain the Lower body weight shift That dirt bikes taught me. Stats show dirt bike riders crash less on roads. Not suggesting you keep that tire. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:04:23 JOG, did you find that the slick, hard rears felt weird and unstable? |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:07:39 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
The cool thing about low mileage tires is that you get the opportunity to try so many :D. I bet Metzlers suck because they have so much tread that they wear flat and dry rot before they wear out :P. Not only does it get more dangerous, but then you don't get to try out all those different treads Too much money for nothin' :P |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:18:43 3F2026213C3B0A3A0A32202C67550 wrote:
Can you find me some of these statistics? Everyone has been encouraging me to do some dirt riding. I might just give it a try. What kind of dirt riding do you recommend? Flat, fast, and slick, or rough, steep, and slow? I may have more opportunities with the latter. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:20:45 554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:
Besides the wear, it seems that this tire was kinda flat from the factory. Anyone know what I'm talking about? |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/06/15 at 16:27:07 555E535746585341540402360 wrote:
Just grabbed mine. Doesn't feel weird or unstable. Wait, were you talking about tires? A touring tire is Gonna be harder than the average tire. I had two , off brand, name escapes me, first one was like an octopus, sucking down to the road, got about 3,500 out of it, cheap tire, and I went to get another,, same price, Way different performance. It felt squirrelly, and lasted about 5,000 , okay, I went to Dunlop, and stayed with it, Consistent, dependable performance. I had to wire the peg rubber on a peg, because I had worn it through, the bike Will lay down in a corner. I've been in literal pain from the peg crushing my foot between the peg and bike. Get a Real tire. And have fun. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:30:39 Yes I was talking about tires ::) |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:32:54 302F292E33340535053D2F23685A0 wrote:
Awwww! Now you make me want to keep that tire ;D |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:46:31 Seriously, does anyone else have any experience/opinions to share? |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 16:47:32 By the way, can lacking a good footpeg cause instability? |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/06/15 at 17:27:30 IDK if a bad peg can cause instability. I know I Used my pegs to set the bike in a corner, so, yeah, IF you're pushing it, I can see it, but easy riding, not what I would expect. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/15 at 18:38:13 You need to check the bike from top to bottom. the front forks maybe bent or simply out of alignment. maybe your rear axle isn't tight and against the stops. but most likely, you've damaged the tire with the low pressure. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 19:31:42 I wouldn't think that 30 psi, or a little less, is low enough to damage the tire. How low does the pressure need to be in order to cause damage? |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/06/15 at 19:39:57 Check out the spokes, look at the rim. Look at the tire / rim and see if the tire is beaded the same all around, both sides. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by Kris01 on 12/06/15 at 20:19:09 I'm running Pirellis on mine and 30 psi seems waaay too low. It "feels" dangerous and squirrelly. I think I run somewhere around 35-40 psi for it to feel "confidence inspiring". I've heard the Metzelers wear flat on top of the tread because they are so thick. This will give you a square profile instead of the standard motorcycle tire round profile. When you lean the tire over onto this edge, handling will get sloppy. Add that to the age of the tire and you have the makings of a disaster. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 20:28:09 Do you run the MT66 Route tires? How do you like them compared to the other brands? Do you like the 140/90 size? Do they have good grip in the gravel and dirt/mud (for a road tire)? I would assume they do fairly well from the relatively abundant center tread. Do you prefer these to the other brands or cheaper tires? I'd like to find something pretty cheap, so long as it suits my purpose. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 20:34:14 6C554E541716270 wrote:
Yeah, I think I'm starting to notice the floppiness or "sloppiness" of the handling due to the wear. I also remember reading the opinion that they wear flat. Seems a rather ineffective way of making a long life tire, doesn't it? And too darned expensive. :P Of course, some swear by them for traction and handling. I sometimes feel like those 140/80 Metzlers were designed a bit flat from the time they're new, and the wear doesn't help. Of course, I got the tire used with the bike, so what do I know? :P |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/06/15 at 20:45:03 Since I finally figured out how to get pictures off my parent's cheap smartphone, I'll see about getting a picture of that tire tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by gizzo on 12/06/15 at 21:22:45 My rear tyre is probably 10 years old. Was on it when I bought the bike and the PO had never fitted a new tyre. I'm dragging pegs on that old thing, and it feels fine to me. Even when I had 15 psi in it because my back hurt on a long run, that thing was squirming all over but still stuck to the road just fine. I'm not saying you should ride on an old tyre, but I'm going to keep on until it's gone. YMMV etc. Kris, i don't think I could stand to ride this bike with 40 psi in the back tyre. Too jarring for me. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 09:14:12 A picture |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 09:17:12 Another |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 09:19:05 And another |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 09:27:45 And another |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 09:33:05 And maybe one more. I probably need to figure out all this image sharing stuff at some point. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 09:39:59 That wide tread'll fool ya! Just barely comes over Lincoln's hairline with the dirt scratched away. Not much life left in that tire. Is that tire flat enough for ya! :D Do you think the thing was designed a little flat in the beginning? Might be alot flatter now, but it doesn't look like it was ever a very round, steep tire. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 09:46:51 You can see from the third picture that the tread is worn unevenly. Certain thick parts of the tread stick out like wings. Is this what is called cupping, or is that something slightly different? |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 10:11:47 Talking about squared off, mine ain't nothin' to this :o http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-Honda-Rebel-250-OEM-Rear-Wheel-Rim-Tire-130-90-15-06-07-08-09-11-12-CMX250-/131362198745?fits=Make%3AHonda|Model%3ARebel+250 |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by verslagen1 on 12/07/15 at 10:45:58 Unless you're riding in the rain, tires aren't properly worn out till threads are showing. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by gizzo on 12/07/15 at 13:22:03 170413120D0006040F50610 wrote:
Amen to that. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/15 at 13:39:01 I see high and low spots when I look at it looking past center to the outside. That can't roll smoothly in a turn. If you've got the rear end off the ground and it's vertical, stable, safe,, and you put it in first and feel the tire, the suspension is trying to keep that on the road. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by Dave on 12/07/15 at 13:48:53 Looks to me like there is a big metal rod sticking out of your tire! ::) http://i65.tinypic.com/2cyiqag.jpg Tires beyond 3 years old are becoming hard, and as each year goes by they get a bit harder. Tires older than 5 years old can be really hard, especially tires that were made for long mileage and most likely started out as hard rubber even before they aged. No street tire will get traction on wet leaves or mud.....and wet/muddy leaves are even worse! Even dedicated off-road tires have a tough time on wet leaves...they are really slippery! I don't know of any available tire that will fit on the Savage rim that will be a good tire for wet dirt roads. Here is a link to the tire sets that fit the Savage, and I really don't see any tire in that group that has a tread pattern that will be a "good" tire for the wet dirt roads.....they just don't make them in 15" diameter rim sizes. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1448021014 What you really need is a tire with a tread that looks like the one below (DunlopK70) - but it does not come in a size that will fit the Savage. These type of tires provide better traction in the dirt/mud/wet - but don't provide a long life tread. http://i65.tinypic.com/2vmamax.jpg A relatively new rider, on old high mileage street tires, on wet dirt roads covered in leaves......sounds like the a place where "YouTube" videos come from. Be sure to have your friends riding behind you with their cameras on. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/07/15 at 15:40:04 I'm afraid I'm pretty short on riding buddies. I'm a bit of a loner. I'm getting my Dad into riding, but he's the last thing from tech savvy. When I get some money and start going all over the country, maybe I'll get a Go-Pro or something. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/15 at 16:03:53 Having survived a pretty tight left on layers of Sweetgum tree leaves with the gumballs spread amongst them for additional friction reduction, I can Promise you that you don't wanna do that. Without the muscles knowing that the seat had to move up and to the right, I would have been sliding to a ditch. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by chzeckmate on 12/09/15 at 08:46:59 In my experience, if you think you need a new tire, you probably do. You've only been riding for a short time. I wouldn't put a new rider on that tire...my 2˘ |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by Art Webb on 12/09/15 at 09:22:49 you just had an 'unexplainable' down that tire sort of explains it get a rear tire also as JOG already said, check your spokes, raise the back of the bike and check for loose wheel bearings, check to be sure your rear wheel is properly aligned. and check the rim isn't bent when you crash a bike, you NEED to check these things as a matter of course BEFORE you go riding the bike around again |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/09/15 at 10:49:20 If you're not wanting to spend money right now, but have a grinder, if that was my tire, and I couldn't afford to replace it, I'd get it off the ground and spinning, ( saying what does not need said, spokes tight, wheel true) faster is better, and , if you've got the skills to run the grinder, eliminate the waves that the road sees when you are leaning. Look at your tire, standing off to the side, looking at the far side. It's not smooth. I call that pattern checking. The rearmost edge of the big tread pattern is standing high. Run a hand over it, just parked. But, step one is Spoke check and rim condition. Quite a learning curve in rim truing. I rode a ten speed and carried spoke wrenches with me. I got good at it. The internet is a library. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/11/15 at 16:42:50 I checked for rear wheel warpage, there is no substantial warpage. I haven't checked the front for warpage, though. The rear wheel was out of alignment, though. Using a straightedge, the right-hand side had around maybe 1-1/4 inch between board and tire, and the left-hand side around 1/8 inch. Is that enough to cause bizarre handling/instability? I do know that it helped alleviate the belt squeak. I moved the bike around and then propped it up and ran it with the tire off the ground, and then I used a wooden block to push the belt over a bit. It still sets against, or nearly against the pulley sidewall, but it's better than it was. The spinning resistance still seems more than it was the last time I checked the rear brake. Maybe I need one of those rubber shims somebody keeps talking about. However, the pulley does not seem to have a lot of play in that direction. Sometimes I wonder about frame warpage :-/. I know somebody here has that issue. He says he can make the rear wheel track but not the belt :P. On the other hand, my crash wasn't extremely violent; it was at a moderately low speed. Maybe it just got knocked out of alignment? I hope so. :-/ I remember looking at the swingarm marks a day or two ago, and I thought they looked the same, so I don't know. I doubt it had much of a problem when I bought it. Who knows? Here's a mystery to solve: My odometer a day or two ago read 16691 miles. I haven't ridden it very much since the crash. Can anyone figure out the mystery? ;) |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/15 at 22:57:19 I don't see a reply regarding the lumpy tread on the edges of the tire. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/11/15 at 23:15:36 Yes, I know my tire is lumpy! ::) I mentioned that a long time ago already :P |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/11/15 at 23:18:02 43484541504E4557421214200 wrote:
See, I said it first :D |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by russ on 12/12/15 at 05:46:54 I have a 66 Dream , bought it to get back into riding 6 or so years ago. tires looked decent so figured to get a season out of em . I did. but they felt like I was ridin on marbles. next season I got dunlops for her , what a diff it made . when my wife started to ride with I had to upgrade to bigger bike , bought the 650 as I liked the look. just enough power for the 2 of us ( only 300 lbs or so between us ) had a new rear and looked to be decent front. after the first solo ride I knew a tire was due cause of the marble feelin. |
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Title: Re: Evil Rear Tire Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/12/15 at 17:05:45 3E35383C2D33382A3F6F695D0 wrote:
Well, you're,best I can tell, asking Why might the rear end feel squirrelly? I'm saying that is probably why. Couple that with old, and a touring tire, too,, get a tire. The Dunlop was affordable and dependable in How it acted, wet or dry. |
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