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Message started by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 08:49:02

Title: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 08:49:02

Anyone do a rear drum to disc brake conversion?

If so;

What were the swap components?

Were they "suzuki" factory components from another bike?

Any issues with the spokes and/or balancing?

How is the rear braking before and after?

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Kris01 on 11/29/15 at 09:01:56

Is this for looks or performance? I can easily lock up the rear with the stock drum.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by thumperclone on 11/29/15 at 09:07:22

6D544F551617260 wrote:

Is this for looks or performance? I can easily lock up the rear with the stock drum.

ditto
learned it the hard way
left a skid mark on my shorts

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 09:28:09

Performance only.

I cannot lock up the rear brake at all. Changed pads and all, still can't do it. Not sure the "issue(s)" but I've tried to lock it up and no love :-/

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/29/15 at 09:40:09

These are known for their ease of lockup on the rear. I've seen your posts. You're no idiot. I can't imagine that you're not adjusting it right, but, people , being people,CAN fail to see the obvious, and NO I really don't wanna explain how I know that,, but, go to the pedal, press, see how far it travels, look at the rear arm, where is
At rest
Where is
Fully engaged

I used a grinder to cut grooves in my shoes to minimize contact area, because it locked up at the lightest touch.

Worse comes to wurser, you may be pulling the brake segment and taking a pic, so we can see how the innards are set up.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Serowbot on 11/29/15 at 09:47:32

If I use it,... I usually lock it...
darn thing is like an on-off switch... ;D...

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 10:00:28

I may be missing something, a step in the pad replacement.

The inner drum looked and felt "rough" enough, but ...

could it be "glazed", causing the issue?

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/29/15 at 10:11:14

No, like Row said, it's almost an on off switch. I couldn't actually feel the pressure, I just knew that I'd moved the ankle, and it's locked.
You've got something missing or busted, but you couldn't polish the drum and glaze the shoes enough to not work.
A report of what is,
How far can you move the pedal?
Go back to my post. I've been here, and I've got experience with it.
These brakes, stock, are too good, and need limited, so they don't lock up if you sneeze at it. .
If that's why you replaced the shoes and you bought it like that, and I remember when you bought them, cuz I was unhappy, because it's almost impossible to wear them out..
Anyway, something inside the hub is wrong or , and I don't think you'd do this, it's simply adjusted wrong.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/15 at 10:15:28

You replaced your "pads" with what? Rears are typically called shoes.

Normally, when the brakes are fully locked up, the arm is pointing straight down. How's yours?

Due to the fact that it's easy to lock up the rear on my bike, I like the brake pedal adjusted low. So low it nearly locks up on a post. How's yours?

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 10:34:44

is there another adjustment, other than at the actuator arm, at the pedal or in-between?

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/15 at 10:52:46

19382E382F290F3C295D0 wrote:

is there another adjustment, other than at the actuator arm, at the pedal or in-between?

You adjust the resting pedal ht. up front, but the brake pt. only in back.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by old.indian on 11/29/15 at 10:52:50

Like the 'Rat, I'm not getting enough rear braking to lock up, no matter the pressure I apply. I cleaned the drum and shoes when I replaced the tires and still no. Drag yes, but NO lock up. I've adjusted my driving style to utilize the rear more and earlier than I did on my previous bikes that had touchier rear binders. I suppose I'm more comfortable not having to worry about applying a hair too much pressure and locking the rear at the wrong instant. 8-)

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 11:01:35

yup, I adjusted for drag by rotating the tire and adjusting until it had a slight drag to stop, like old school shoe adjustment. The bike does slow with rear applied, but NO LOCK UP as others have described.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/15 at 11:16:04

293A2D2C333E383A316E5F0 wrote:

You replaced your "pads" with what? Rears are typically called shoes.

answer?

somethings not like the others... only way I can tell is pics... got'm?

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 14:07:53

"pads"

I know they're shoes, was just thinking of disc pads, like my original post here.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 14:08:33

adjustment

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 14:09:07

adjustment II

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by DesertRat on 11/29/15 at 14:09:49

pedal

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/15 at 15:47:44

I don't see anything wrong yet.
how about a pic of the pedal fully depressed.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/29/15 at 18:08:31

Not to be a jerk, but why in the world are you even using the rear brake for routine stopping? Under braking, some 75 of the weight of the bike and rider is transferred to the front wheel. One of the reasons that the rear will lock up so easily is that there so is little weight to stop.

My suggestion, stop using the rear brake and learn to use the front brake. Other then to correct my line mid-turn, I can't remember the last time I used a rear brake.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/29/15 at 19:11:14

If the objective was to not be a jerk, I think you may have failed.

e most common setup is to have a lever on the right handgrip to engage the front brake and a pedal near the right foot peg to engage the rear brake. Standard motorcycle brakes are hydraulically actuated to clamp down on the brakes rotors. The front brakes supply about 70% of the motorcycle's stopping power (car brakes are similarly proportioned. One common misconception is that using too much front brake can flip the rider over the handlebars. Despite the greater braking capabilities of a motorcycle's front brakes it is very difficult to make a flip a bike based on braking alone. To stop a motorcycle in the shortest distance possible, it is important to use both front and rear brakes in unison. Danger can arise when misuse of the brakes locks a wheel and causes the tire to skid. When skidding, control over the motorcycle is compromised.

To avoid a tire skid, motorcycle brakes should be applied firmly but smoothly. Progressively applying the front brake allows the weight of the motorcycle to shift forward, giving that tire extra traction. It is important to avoid abrupt application of the rear brake because as the weight shifts forward, decreasing weight on the rear tire makes it easier to lock up. In the event of a skid, a rider only has a split second to react so knowing the proper procedure is key.

A motorcycle's front tire is mainly responsible for steering the motorcycle. If the motorcycle's front tire locks up during braking, there will not be traction to facilitate steering. If your motorcycle's front wheel locks up, you should immediately release the brake and then reapply less abruptly.

A motorcycle's rear tire is mainly responsible for powering the motorcycle. Despite the fact that bikes only have two wheels, they are pretty stable as long as it is under power. As long as the rear wheel is driving the motorcycle, its rotational force will keep it upright and the wheels in line with each other. If the rear wheel locks up during braking, it will naturally drift out of line with the front wheel. If you release the brake and allow the rear wheel to spin under the power of the engine again, it will try to snap it back in line with the front wheel. This can cause a motorcycle to high side and can throw the rider off. High side crashes can be one of the most dangerous situations a motorcycle rider can encounter. If your motorcycle's rear wheel locks up, keep pressure of the brake. It is better to allow the rear wheel to skid than to risk a high side crash.

In most braking situations, the rider should downshift as speed decreases to keep the road speed synched up with the engine speed. In emergency situations, keep the clutch squeezed in and focus on braking. Before coming to a stop, however, make sure to shift all the way down to first gear. Normally, it is a good idea to keep the motorcycle in gear with the clutch in at stoplights. With the bike in first gear, the rider has more control and can get the vehicle moving quickly if necessary.

The best way to make sure stopping on your motorcycle is as safe as possible is to maintain a safe following distance behind the vehicle in front of you. By keeping an adequate space cushion between you and other vehicles, you can avoid the need for sudden breaking altogether. In wet or slippery conditions, increase your following distance even more since traction available for braking is reduced.

For more information check out our Motorcycle Brakes Page

Why would anyone just accept a thirty percent decrease in stopping power knowing that idiots regularly turn left across the paths of motorcycles??

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Dave on 11/30/15 at 03:30:39

The rear brake on the Savage is very effective as the others have experienced, and it is very easy to lock up when working properly. It also has been proven that the shoes are almost never worn out by use.....they seem to last forever.

When you replaced your brake shoes - did you take the shaft out of the plate and clean and lube the shaft? The shaft can get dry or corroded and that will make the brake less effective if the shaft is binding up. There is an O-ring on the shaft that is supposed to keep water from entering the shaft....but over time the shaft does get dry and needs to be taken apart and cleaned up.

Same thing for the front brake pedal pivot point - it should be taken apart and cleaned and lubed.

The brake cable also should be lubed, and you can do that by leaving it on the bike and using a "cable luber", or by taking it off the bike and hanging it vertically and taping a zip lock baggy to the cable at the top end and then putting oil in the baggy so gravity will pull the oil down.

And my comment on the front/rear brake issue.....new riders and the average street rider should be using their front and rear brakes in unison. They should get very proficient at it, and ready to gracefully and forcefully apply them when needed in an effort to avoid whatever just got into your riding path (car, deer, truck, pothole). More advance riders, especially ones who do track events on their motorcycles often don't use their rear brakes much at all. Under heavy braking the rear end is far too easy to lock up and a rear end skid is very hard to get under control. The rear brake on my Cafe' conversion is far less sensitive than it was on the stock Savage, and I am fine with that as it does not tend to lock up unexpectedly.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/30/15 at 14:22:35

After I cut grooves and eliminated about 1/3 of the contact surface, I could modulate ankle pressure and Feel the difference in braking.
Before that, the pressure difference between
I can tell the rear brake is slowing me down
And
The rear tire is sliding
was so tiny I couldn't safely use the brake.
Adjusting the pedal so low that my ankle just couldn't produce enough pressure at that angle didn't seem like an acceptable answer.
Cornering angles, time to go from normal riding position to flexing the ankle down against the boot fighting me, I just want the pedal to be up and brake engaging with minimal travel, and requiring enough pressure that I can feel it and increase or decrease and actually be in control of the brake. So, I took a bunch of the shoes out. Worked tons better. If I hadn't sold it, I would have taken more at the next tire change.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Kris01 on 11/30/15 at 16:29:05

You guys are saying NOT to use the rear brake? If you brake properly, you'll need both brakes to stop. I use the rear to help the front since it stops 70% of the weight. The rear shouldn't be used to stop much of the weight of the bike. Using only 1 brake when 2 are available is just wrong and dangerous.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Dave on 11/30/15 at 17:42:29

I didn't say that you shouldn't use the rear brake.....I do use mine for all the routine stops, and when braking hard in an emergency. I also use my front brake in unison with the rear brake.

My comment on the rear brake is that the road racer friends have told me they hardly use any rear brake. I am not sure why, as I have never done any paved track riding....my belief is that it can result in a sliding rear tire (followed by a low or high side dismount).

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by oldNslow on 11/30/15 at 18:19:45

Quote:

My comment on the rear brake is that the road racer friends I have told me they don't use use any rear brake. I am not sure why, as I have never done any paved track riding....my belief is that it can result in a sliding rear tire (followed by a low or high side dismount).

Road racers are almost never using their brakes to come to a complete stop like us street riders are when stopping quickly to avoid an obstacle like a left turning car etc. Road racers brake to slow the bike from relatively high speed to the proper entry speed for the next corner. The front brakes on road race bikes are so strong and the tires have so much grip that once the fronts are applied the rear tire is just barely or in some cases, not, touching the pavement. Under those circumstances applying the rear brake is unnecessary and, as Dave said, potentially dangerous.

Coming to a complete stop, in a straight line, and in the shortest distance, generally requires that both brakes be applied just short of locking the wheels. But that is hardly ever necessary during a race.

.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Dave on 12/01/15 at 03:55:15

oldNslow:

Now that you mentioned the heavy front brake that the road racers are using....I remember several slow motion shots in the "Hitting the Apex" movie where it showed the back tire was just skipping off the pavement when they where doing heavy braking. The back tire would just touch the ground for an instant and then bounce back up in the air and float about 1/2" off the pavement for a long time (in slow motion).

I know that having dual front discs is a fad on most street bikes.....but they really do need both those discs on the real Moto GP bikes! Most of us will never need the kind of brakes that it takes to slow down from 150+ mph repeatedly for an hour or more.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/01/15 at 04:50:35

754C574D0E0F3E0 wrote:

I didn't say anything about not using rear.

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Art Webb on 12/01/15 at 07:46:53

Almost ANY sport bike is capable of a 'stoppie' so in a true 'max braking' scenario, on a sport bike you might not use the rear brake, since the tire might not be on the ground
I quite often in regular riding use only the front brakes for normal stops, because even the Savage can outstop most production cars by a handy margin and I prefer not wearing a car on my rear tire
When I want full braking power however I have no issues with the rear brake
Also consider that if you downshift aggressively the engine itself can break the rear tire loose, so if you're using a lot of engine braking, say, slowing for a turn, adding MORE braking force to the rear tire might not be the brightest idea

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by Kris01 on 12/01/15 at 17:00:24

Ok, maybe I misread a few posts. I was starting to wonder about you guys! :D

Title: Re: Rear drum to disc conversion?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/01/15 at 18:07:43

A tire generates X traction. Traction used in cornering force plus braking can Quickly exceed tire traction ,especially when weight transfer gets in the equation.