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Message started by cheapnewb24 on 11/18/15 at 12:45:15

Title: Blown Fork Seal
Post by cheapnewb24 on 11/18/15 at 12:45:15

Well, guys, I guess all the rough terrain and potholes in my area has done its damage to my right fork seal. Before my trip I discovered a little puddle of oil on my rim and discovered that the seal is blown. Is it absolutely critical that I fix this immediately. I have already ridden it since then. I know it weakens the suspension (duh). I am also concerned that it is going to wear out the internals from lack of lubrication. Will a bit of gear oil, motor oil or ATF hurt it till I get it fixed? I don't have any fork oil on hand.

I was making my commute to college. I was going to use the gym, but I talked with someone and didn't get the opportunity. I was left with 2 extra hours so I just brought it home. The fellow I spoke with thought it was a safe idea since I was looking forward to a wind/rainstorm :o. I was largely aware of it. I got to ride in some of the wind. It hasn't rained yet. Between risking having the parked bike blown over in the wind, getting water in the busted fork, and everything else, I just brought it home. One thing that really nags me -- some may have trouble understanding this -- is that I didn't use the opportunity to ride in the rainstorm :(. I am afraid I missed the all that adventure :(. To make it worse, it is late in the season so the next rainstorm will probably be cold :(

What is there to rebuilding the forks? Do I need to do both sides or just the broken one? Is there anything else I can do. I have no real knowledge on this subject.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by cheapnewb24 on 11/18/15 at 12:53:04

I might have forgotten to mention that I don't want to be without my bike, so I would prefer a fairly quick solution, so I am hoping that the required repairs aren't too long or difficult. Probably the longest wait would be for the parts. Is there a temporary fix while I wait for parts? Some sort of oil, grease, or sealing compound?

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by verslagen1 on 11/18/15 at 13:00:09

there are 2 sets of instructions in the tech index ;D

Can be done in a couple of hours if you have the tools ahead of time.

many have ridden months, if not years w/out any oil.

I'd both at once, you want them matching.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Serowbot on 11/18/15 at 13:01:28

try this first... you can make one from a 2 liter plastic bottle...
http://sealmate.net/

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by cheapnewb24 on 11/18/15 at 13:06:27

Thanks, I will look into all that when I have time. Do you think I am missing anything not riding in the coming downpour? It really annoys me. I have ridden in the wet but not a real rainstorm yet. I gather that some people don't like it. Am I missing all the fun or am I just avoiding a hard time?

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by verslagen1 on 11/18/15 at 13:15:13

whatever floats your bike... :-?

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Gus on 11/18/15 at 14:33:17

262D2024352B2032277771450 wrote:

Don't stop there! Try a hail storm out for size. Now there is the ultimate . . .riding . . .experience. Don't miss it!

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by cheapnewb24 on 11/18/15 at 16:35:46

;D ROFL

Are you serious, or are you just being sarcastic?

Has anyone here seriously rode through a hailstorm? Shielded face, windshield, or naked? Did you like it? Or are you just pulling my leg? :P

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by cheapnewb24 on 11/18/15 at 16:40:50

When I do get around to actually repairing the forks, is there a way of making them stronger? I get the impression that a lot of people are blowing their forks from rough treatment. I recall somebody on this forum blaming it on wheelies. What is the best oil to use for harsh conditions, heavy or light? What brand? weight?

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Steve H on 11/18/15 at 17:09:25

I have actually ridden in a hail storm. It was many, many moons ago when I was in my late teens. I was heading home as quick as I legally could hoping to beat the big, bad rain clouds I saw coming. I go around a curve and straight into a hail storm. No rain, the wind was really blowing, I hit it about 60 mph. Lucky for me it was BB to pea sized hail so it wasn't a life threatening situation. It stung and burned. I hit the brakes quickly and slowed down to about 25. At this time I was about 3 miles from home so I kept going and got there just before the bottom fell out.
The hail lasted about half a mile. When I got home, I had a few little places where the hail had torn my skin (very small sores) and all exposed skin was bright red and very sore.

That was my first and only time in a hail storm. I hope I'm never in one on a bike again.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by cheapnewb24 on 11/18/15 at 17:20:22

Thanks for sharing your experience. Informative. I bet a face shield would have been helpful in that situation. I wonder if anyone has torn up a helmet or faceshield by riding through hail. I guess hail protection would be a novel use for a helmet. No good getting KO'ed by big hail balls. If a hailstone can break a windshield, would sure do a number on a helmet, not to mention an unshielded head. :o

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Steve H on 11/19/15 at 04:18:33

I was wearing a 3/4 helmet with a shield. Shield suffered no ill effects.
Really the only exposed skin was my hands and forearms up to the elbows and my neck. I was wearing a sweatshirt but it was warm so I rolled the sleeves up just above my elbows.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Dave on 11/19/15 at 04:54:35

464D4044554B4052471711250 wrote:

There are a few folks that have had seal leaks.....hundreds of others don't. I really don't think rough treatment is a factor - the Savage has a pretty easy life when compared to off road bikes, and these are basically the same fork design that I had on my 1973 Suzuki motocross bike.

Next year the Savage will celebrate it's 30th birthday, and there are a lot of the bikes still running around that are 20+ years old. Not all of these bikes are stored indoors, and rubber parts don't last forever. Replacing aged fork seals should be considered a maintenance issue, and once the seals age and shrink/stiffen/crack they won't provide a good seal anymore.

I use 15W fork oil - or automobile ATF (automatic transmission fluid) in my forks. The Savage forks are not sophisticated enough that it really makes much difference.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by youzguyz on 11/19/15 at 13:16:54

78737E7A6B757E6C79292F1B0 wrote:

In addition to Dave's observations:
The hardest thing on fork seals is not riding the motorcycle. Seals last longer if they are actually used. It keeps them flexing, and keeps them from getting hard.
I store my bikes outside. I have ridden my Savages off road.. I have broken a lot of things probably because of that (gas tank mount, muffler mount, rear fenders, spokes, headlight buckets). I have never had a front fork seal fail because of that treatment. I have replaced them once (maybe twice?) due to a minor weeping.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Art Webb on 11/20/15 at 11:02:29

First what you may be 'missing out on' in a serious rainstorm is pure misery, not an adventure
ATF is fine in forks, though whether you want type F, type A, Mercon / dexron, or one of the newer blends I never asked
I think the Savage uses 10 weight stack, and ATF might be an improvement over that, to be honest
Try the plastic thingie Sero posted, 8 times out of 10 a blown fork seal just has a bit of gunge in it, and will quit weeping if you get that out
Sorta like an eyeball, it don't like foreign objects in there

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by chzeckmate on 11/21/15 at 01:14:32

Riding in the rain isn't so bad as long as I know it's coming and I've got my rain gear on. Getting surprised by a freak thunderstorm sucks. I've ruined numerous expensive electronic devices getting caught in the rain.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Art Webb on 11/22/15 at 08:42:39

Well when I say riding in rain is misery I mean hard heavy rain
Sucks no matter how good your gear is
A shower I don't really mind

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by WD on 11/25/15 at 15:42:30

Popped my fork seals the day I bought my 1998 brand new. Belt was too tight, popped the front wheel off the ground, hard landing. Leaked from 1998 until it was retired for good in 2014 due to a massive electrical system failure (more to fix the bike than it is worth).

Fork oil is overpriced. Use Dexron/Mercon 3 for a stock ride, Type F (which "can" cause seal damage, but likely won't) for slightly stiffer, SAE 15W40 or 20W50 if you want it noticeably firmer. The next time I do my forks they are getting straight 40W engine oil. Or concrete. I will NOT accept ANY amount of fork dive while braking, which is currently a non-issue because the front brake on my 2003 has quit working, just like the 1998 did. Time for a drum swap (and a springer fork)... FYI, the stock brake on the Savage/S40 specs out as a 1969 Honda caliper. The early 70s Suzuki Titan (500cc 2 stroke street twin) front drum on my 98 Savage has 3-4x the stopping power.

When you go to fill your forks, pull out the springs and let the upper tubes drop into the sliders. Fill the upper tubes to the absolute brim with your chosen oil. Extend the uppers, drop in the springs, insert and tighten down to the triple clamps.

You will have to learn the bike's new handling characteristics, and they will change, perhaps significantly.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by Art Webb on 11/26/15 at 18:43:40

so Rotella is good for forks and motor! sweet

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by dustystranger on 11/27/15 at 15:54:29

sorry WD, but the most common fillup for front forks is 6" from top with forks fully compressed with no springs inside. Why not just put in the recommended amt the factory recommends? Do you think they pay those factory engineers for no reason? Oh yeah I know, most bikers think they are EXPERTS! Wanna buy a bridge?

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by runwyrlph on 11/27/15 at 17:39:12

7C777A7E6F717A687D2D2B1F0 wrote:

Has anyone here seriously rode through a hailstorm? Shielded face, windshield, or naked? Did you like it? Or are you just pulling my leg? :P

Got caught in a hailstorm last summer with 3/4 helmet on: definitely NOT fun. At first I didn't realize the rain had turned to hail, I just noticed it was really stinging my face, thought it had gotten really windy. Pulled in to a convenient car wash for shelter, then saw (less than pea sized) hail bouncing around everywhere.

Title: Re: Blown Fork Seal
Post by WD on 11/29/15 at 00:24:52

7D6C6A6D606A6D6B78777E7C6B190 wrote:

Because the engineers base the amount on a theoretical "average" weight and riding ability/style. That weight generally being 150 pounds, which I exceed by 90-95 pounds. And I tend to ride extremely aggressively. I use oil weights and level to tune the fork for how and where I ride.

An as shipped motorcycle is a half finished motorcycle. Accepting the factory settings means you won't get everything the machine is capable of. Riders routinely swap rear shocks, seats, handlebars and mirrors for a better "feel", tuning your front fork is no different. Especially when that fork is NO better than that on a 1950s bike. The Savage/S40 fork is a scaled down 1949 Hydraglide unit, nearly identical to same era English and American twins.

Increasing oil levels in hydraulic forks to improve handling is as old as hydraulic forks themselves. Increasing fluid weight is as old as hydraulic cylinder technology.