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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Killer Question... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1447284154 Message started by Serowbot on 11/11/15 at 15:22:34 |
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Title: Killer Question... Post by Serowbot on 11/11/15 at 15:22:34 Killer Question Republicans Couldn't Answer Tuesday Night History hasn't been kind to GOP arguments about taxes... Quote:
Answer?.... More tax cuts for the rich... same thing Bush did,... that didn't work... :-?... Donald Trump has unveiled his tax plan. It would, it turns out, lavish huge cuts on the wealthy while blowing up the deficit. This is in contrast to Jeb Bush’s plan, which would lavish huge cuts on the wealthy while blowing up the deficit, ...and Marco Rubio’s plan, which would lavish huge cuts on the wealthy while blowing up the deficit. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by pg on 11/11/15 at 15:40:35 Donald Trump has unveiled his tax plan. It would, it turns out, lavish huge cuts on the wealthy while blowing up the deficit. This is in contrast to Jeb Bush’s plan, which would lavish huge cuts on the wealthy while blowing up the deficit, ...and Marco Rubio’s plan, which would lavish huge cuts on the wealthy while blowing up the deficit. What are you talking about? Obama is going to put on 10 trillion dollars to the national debt during his tenure. When Obama took over in January 2009, the total national debt stood at $10.6 trillion. That means the debt will have very nearly doubled during his eight years in office. He also has the lowest labor participation rate in almost 40 years.... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by squiggy on 11/11/15 at 16:33:07 Debt and deficit are two different things... |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by old.indian on 11/11/15 at 16:35:47 Obama did this !!! Obama did that !!!! ... For some reason everyone forgets that spending bills go through CONGRESS. The budget has just as much Democrats' pork as Republicans' pork. :o Liberal Democrat or Conservative Republican WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY !!!!! If you're so POed about the way the government is run, QUIT SENDING THE SAME A$$ HOLES BACK EVERY ELECTION!!!! |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by pg on 11/11/15 at 16:58:55 If you're so POed about the way the government is run, QUIT SENDING THE SAME A$$ HOLES BACK EVERY ELECTION!!!! If voting made a difference, they would let us do it. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/11/15 at 18:53:18 doesn't matter, really, who is in front of the camera and signing the bills, while unelected bureaucrats Write the laws and set policy. Study history. Not ONE fiat currency has ever survived. Gee, isn't it odd, we get the Federal Reserve AND right on its tail, Income Tax, So, we , a Sovereign Nation, BORROW our operating capital from a bank... Keynes book, read it.If you're able to read it And it makes sense, you're a criminal. It's a horrific system and we have been harvested. I didn't say that it's coming. It's done. Weimar republic,, seriously, people, not seeing and connecting the dots at this point? I HEARD the word Repeal a few times. I Like that word, but until I SEE some of the bad stuff tossed out, I see no bright tomorrows. Generally speaking, we have been in decline since at least 1965. Spout the numbers...you Know that the unemployment figure s are a joke, right? And there's no inflation to speak of, which explains why popcorn and a coke costs almost ten bucks.. The coke I got for a dime is pushing a dollar now. My Grandpa had a 13 stool snack bar he leased from the grocery store. He , alone, ran it. He owned and added onto his house, built a two car garage, hired it done, had gutters put on, and in around 1965 , gutters were a big deal.. And, he saved money, and bought a little country store, gramma did the books, and a little thirteen bar stool snack bar generated the funds. Let that soak in. Why don't we see that today? Because you can't survive on the money that would make today, but in 65 one man working six days a week was Gaining Ground . I am not disrespecting him, but I worked every bit as hard and as long and was never as prosperous. Do you believe that Your labor is as financially rewarding as the labor of our grandson? Latch key kids , both parents working, just scraping by. Look at the FACT that they LIE to us about the unemployment rate. Everyone KNOWS it's a lie. But the debt? Ohh, yeah, That is a real number.. And how much did they talk about derivatives? Does ANYONE here think about the interest rates? I remember getting close to ten percent. Why don't our deposits earn us anything anymore? Don't talk about that! It's the new normal! What would happen if it went up? Well, if it went up on YOUR mortgage, you're hurt. If it goes up, and we are sitting on around Twenty Trillion Dollars in acknowledged debt, just think about the increase in cost of Servicing the debt.... I could type for days,, and how many would even consider that the truth is, we are in a very bad position. All that's keeping us afloat is that our economy, relative to the rest of the world, is not so bad. Like sunspots are cool areas. Splash that on like aftershave. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by pg on 11/11/15 at 23:20:20 I see no bright tomorrows. Generally speaking, we have been in decline since at least 1965. What we really see is that we had a brief period of prosperity in American after WW2. A number of factors contributed to the golden age as well as the decline. Europe & Asia is decimated Economically no competition Bretton woods A strong dollar Intellectual resources Technology Natural resources - bountiful Industrial revolution still booming We were still building a national infrastructure - highways, schools, etc. Closest thing to true capitalism in American history Anti trust laws that protected small business and middle class Low taxation A population with scruples Calvin Coolidge - “The business of America is business.” Automation Computers Week dollar - 100 years of Federal Reserve & No gold standard Globalization No manufacturing - we used to have the capability to produce everything this country needed NAFTA / TPP The rest of the world has the same technology 4 or 5 billion people added to the global workforce pushing wages down Increased government regulations stifling economic drivers No antitrust laws New laws written to protect corporations / banks Repeal of Glass-Steagall Political correctness Crony capitalism Increased taxation at multiple levels - Federal, State, County, CIty, now Obama Care Interest to the national debt Unfunded pension liabilities A significant portion of the population is better off not working and collecting government benefits. A simple measure of economic activity is do we produce more than we consume? - 19T..... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/11/15 at 23:25:40 Closest thing to true capitalism in American history. I think that was prior to the Fed. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by raydawg on 11/12/15 at 05:06:45 Gee, seems newt and boner was better for bo & willie than nanny and harry, golly.... Who woulda thought :-* |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by Serowbot on 11/12/15 at 06:12:41 56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:
The tax rate on the rich in the 1950's was 90%... ::)... |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 07:31:30 There are a couple of statistics that are the most telling to me. 1) Wal-Mart is the largest US private employer. 2) The ratio of part time works to full time workers peaked in 2010 and is basically still at historical levels. I'm 54 years old and my I remember it wasn't all that long ago that General Motors was the largest employer and part time work was mostly driven by employee demand, not employer. Here's some questions I have based on those two key statistics I'd be interested in hearing other's answers. What impact do those two change have on the US both economically and socially? Why did that change happen? Who will be largest employer 10 years from now? Will that be a good thing or a bad thing? If it's a bad thing, what can be done to keep that from happening? |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by verslagen1 on 11/12/15 at 08:14:03 6C5E59484F5E49765A49503B0 wrote:
Employers don't have to pay part time employees heath care and other benefits. If the laws were changed to require employers pay the percentage of healthcare costs the employee works then the situation will turn around. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by Serowbot on 11/12/15 at 08:22:15 5F6D6A7B7C6D7A45697A63080 wrote:
Unions used to do this... big business lobbying has destroyed them. Now,.. the rich have what they want... No regulation,.. low taxes... and a cheap workforce,.. here or overseas... They are the new aristocracy... We are the proles... Economic feudalism... Actually,... the simple solution is to get rid paid lobbyists... You can lobby for a cause,... but money is out of the picture. No more industry shills buying breaks and subsidies, or influencing the people's government... Corporations are not people... JMHO |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 08:37:13 Employers don't have to pay part time employees heath care and other benefits. If the laws were changed to require employers pay the percentage of healthcare costs the employee works then the situation will turn around. Why should employers be involved with healthcare at all? |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 08:53:31 If it's a bad thing, what can be done to keep that from happening? Tax the rich... Penalize them for outsourcing... Regulate businesses... Require fair wages... securities, pensions, etc... Nationalize healthcare... To lower costs, and to give working people the security to seek better circumstances.... The company I work for has 4 manufacturing facilities in the US. NC, IL, NJ and CA. If your suggestions were implemented, what would my company do? Tax the rich: I and all our managers (about 25 people total) get a very large bonus based on annual results every March. The misses and I are thinking about moving this spring after that check comes. Now, President Serowbot comes along and takes a bunch of that money from me and the other 24 because 'it's the fair thing to do'. All of us adjust what we would have done with that money. Cars are not bought, vacation not taken, houses not bought etc.... In typical government fashion, you waste an enormous amount of that money that you took from us and what you don't waste, you give away to those you deem more worthy of it than me. Now how does that help? As Ben Carson correctly pointed out, you could take every cent from 'the rich' and it wouldn't make a dent. Require fair wages... securities, pensions, etc... Our California plant is already the least productive by far, followed by NJ, then IL and finally NC. Pretty easy to guess why. So the question is, since we're in a global economy, raising NC wages to match CA, won't you just drive my company to Mexico? Nationalize healthcare... My company's global HQ is in Sweden and they have nationalized healthcare. Our Swedish CEO will tell you flat out, the US is not Sweden. Obamacare is costing millions upon millions of dollars and is not working as intended which was predictable. How would the US with a nationalized healthcare be better off? |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 09:10:14 Why did that change happen?It happened because of Republican policies... a. Union busting Here's a question: let's go back in time to the late 70's and assume Democrats were successful and kept unions flourishing instead of dropping off. Let's assume they spread to in vast % into other industries as Democrats tried helping them do. As China, India, Mexico etc... began their economic growth upwards in the 80's, 90's, but the US kept high wages, benefits etc... which kept prices high, what would have happened to the US economy under that scenario vs what actually happened? |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by Serowbot on 11/12/15 at 09:18:34 You ask big questions,... ...the answers are beyond the end of your nose... Altogether, the top 1 percent control 43 percent of the wealth in the nation; the next 4 percent control an additional 29 percent. That,.. is 72% of the wealth in this nation... in the hands of 5% of the people... Ben Carson and the Donald say that taxing 72% of the wealth won't make a dent... We must infer that they believe the remaining 28% will... Have you ever heard the expression,.. getting blood from a turnip?.... :-/... |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 10:02:13 Your suggesting we take every penny from those you consider rich? But regardless, this is one of those lies that has been repeated so many times, it's believed. The problem is it takes a little bit of thinking to work through the lie. There's a big difference between having money and 'controlling' wealth. The top 1% of income earners took home 17% of the income generated in the US. You only need $500,000 income to get into the top 1%. Now, the top 1% has accumulated over the years the vast majority of the capital in the US. That includes stocks, mutual funds, property etc.. for example. Turning that into cash however, would transfer wealth elsewhere. So yes, the Koch Brothers, Donald Trump and George Soros have billions in wealth, but turning that into cash would transfer some of that wealth to others (buyers) and the government (taxes) The bottom line is taxing the income of the riches Americans would do nothing to solve the nation's fiscal problem. Carson and Trump are correct. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by Serowbot on 11/12/15 at 10:15:54 The rich just love you, Web... :-*... |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 10:31:04 as I said, it requires a little thinking to understand the difference. income and wealth are not the same thing. politicians take advantage of the fact that you either don't know this or don't want to put the time in understanding the difference and the ramifications from that. Ben Carson's statement and Donald trumps statement still stands: taxing the rich every penny they have won't solve anything. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 10:33:36 this is just like when Obama compares forcing people to buy health insurance as being the same thing as forcing people to buy automobile insurance. There's enough people in the world that when they heard that they thought "oh well gee, that sounds about right." They have nothing in common with one another. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by Paraquat on 11/12/15 at 11:11:09 2533243921343922560 wrote:
When asked about why he paid workers so much, Henry Ford supposedly replied so the workers could afford to buy his cars. While this may be a myth, he "The benefits were almost immediate. Productivity surged, and the Ford Motor Co. doubled its profits in less than two years. Ford ended up calling it the best cost-cutting move he ever made." http://www.npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552/the-middle-class-took-off-100-years-ago-thanks-to-henry-ford and saw sales of over 1 million cars in 1920. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by WebsterMark on 11/12/15 at 11:19:25 ....and then what happened Steve? |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by Serowbot on 11/12/15 at 13:27:06 ...then he made the Pinto... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by verslagen1 on 11/12/15 at 13:57:23 7E687F627A6F62790D0 wrote:
oooh... killer answer. [smiley=evil.gif] |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/15 at 13:57:26 6670677A62777A61150 wrote:
The tax rate on the rich in the 1950's was 90%... ::)... [/quote] And? We didn't even have an income tax prior to the Fed. How does your pointing out the raping of the people somehow make my point incorrect? Capitalism , by your own point, was being crushed, Post creation of the Fed. Thanks for helping make my point. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/15 at 14:41:24 6C7A6D70687D706B1F0 wrote:
Unions used to do this... big business lobbying has destroyed them. Now,.. the rich have what they want... No regulation,.. low taxes... and a cheap workforce,.. here or overseas... They are the new aristocracy... We are the proles... Economic feudalism... Actually,... the simple solution is to get rid paid lobbyists... You can lobby for a cause,... but money is out of the picture. No more industry shills buying breaks and subsidies, or influencing the people's government... Corporations are not people... JMHO[/quote] I see a bunch of good ideas there, Row. I don't care about Who supposedly pushed for or who signed whatever,, I don't care, I Only care about what has been done and what impact it's had. NAFTA was just a piece of it. Needs to be thrown out. We spend as much as the next TEN countries on defense, and all I see is more spending. And for what? Pre WWII, when the war ended, we stopped building equipment for war. Now, everyone, LOOK. War machinery and equipment is always being built, SO, in order to Not just watch it rot, we keep trouble stirred up, so it gets sold to a soon to be enemy or used against one. Why is it not enough to get people to Stop and THINK, General Wesley Clark had a list of countries that We would be involved with militarily, and LO and Behold, look at where we have been and where we are headed. BUT, the Reasons FOR this Need to be there Is Newer than the list. How very prescient of whomever created the list. It's not the bubs. It's not the dems. It's the unelected, corporatist, criminal elite. What was IKE warning about? IF he wasn't insane, and IF, in fact such a threat existed, then what would things look like Had we Failed to heed that warning? Look out the window. He was not crazy and we didn't stop the shadowy groups fighting for power. The People have no voice and haven't for decades. I haven't forgotten My history. I remember what I've seen. I Watched what happened when the FDA head was replaced by a pharmaceutical company associated person. I read the paper when I was a CHILD. I Saw reports about companies that had spent millions on research and development, hoping to sell a product and the FDA said No. And I Watched the reports of those events diminish. Now, it's not news, ever. BUT, you Can get a number for the law firm suing the company that Sold the Formerly FDA approved drug. Our schools and economy have been sabotaged, not poorly handled, sabotaged. Problem reaction, solution. Divide and conquer. Please note The Real uniters were killed. MLK would throw up looking at what we are told are the representatives of downtrodden. They only get trotted out when they're needed, to keep things stirred up. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by pg on 11/12/15 at 15:30:13 485751564B4C7D4D7D45575B10220 wrote:
There is a great of merit to that statement. I didn't realize they instituted the federal income tax in 1913, then the fed res the following year. They really needed money for ww1. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by pg on 11/12/15 at 15:40:20 US On Road To Third World Paul Craig Roberts On January 6, 2004, Senator Charles Schumer and I challenged the erroneous idea that jobs offshoring was free trade in a New York Times op-ed. Our article so astounded economists that within a few days Schumer and I were summoned to a Brookings Institution conference in Washington, DC, to explain our heresy. In the nationally televised conference, I declared that the consequence of jobs offshoring would be that the US would be a Third World country in 20 years. That was 11 years ago, and the US is on course to descend to Third World status before the remaining nine years of my prediction have expired. Feel free to read the remainder of the article: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/10/29/us-on-road-to-third-world-paul-craig-roberts/ Interesting article from Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan's administration. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by raydawg on 11/12/15 at 16:34:15 6B7D6A776F7A776C180 wrote:
Now that is funny.... ;D You know I never thought of the pinto the way I did of the mustang... I always thought more of what the bean does to me when I ate them. |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/15 at 21:05:51 Ya know, it Really bugs me. People like Charlotte Izerbyt, and Paul Roberts, IN government, and While they were in government, they didn't stop the madness. Now, king of trickle down economics, Paul Roberts, is a great seer of the future and whistleblower. Well, maybe I'm wrong,, maybe he IS a great guy and maybe trickle down is good, but, I don't think so,, and, until someone explains how it is a good idea, well, I have a little whistle that he can blow... And, none of the above rant is intended to, n any way, disagree with the point. It's one I've seen coming. They TOLD us that it was coming, when they passed NAFTA. What? You surely didn't believe that a level playing field meant Raising Up the rest of the world to American standards, did you? While fighting wars and importing and supporting illegals while our own people are unemployed? The Progress is a comin, the progress, baby, Agenda 21, poo poo it, takes time to create the new normal. Look what WAS normal.... One man, supporting a family, and, Growing,, and then Mommy hasta work. Got me a key, so, when I get home from school,I can go in and eat a sammich and watch T.V.... Ahh, women's lib.. Gloria Steinem, wooo hoo, they gave HER a microphone, interviewed her, pictures on the cover of magazines, and I was like,,,, Who IS that woman? Where did she come from? Why is she everywhere? Why are people LISTENING to Her? And look at where it led us. Gloria Steinem CIA Search engine. Naaah, no social engineering going on folks. It's all just a series of unfortunate events... |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by Paraquat on 11/13/15 at 11:03:07 350700111607102F031009620 wrote:
Depends who you ask. According to Forbes it was to keep turn over down. Ford was losing too much money training employees for short turn turn over. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/04/the-story-of-henry-fords-5-a-day-wages-its-not-what-you-think/ Ford pioneered a massive new industry whose wages set the tone for the country and turned Detroit into a high-wage metropolis. ... Legislation passed in the 1930s empowered unions and enforced a federal minimum wage. In the 1940s and 1950s, an entente between big labor and big government—the five-year, no strike, annual-raise, expanded-pension deal between General Motors and the United Auto Workers in 1950 became known as the Treaty of Detroit—led to further increases in living standards. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/06/henry-ford-understood-that-raising-wages-would-bring-him-more-profit.html But we all know how Detroit ended. He learned how far in 1929. In the aftermath of the stock market crash, he raised wages to $7.00 a day, hoping it would spark an economic recovery. But this time, it didn’t work. Orders fell, production slowed, hours were reduced. But Ford didn’t blame the workers for the sluggish economy. The fault lay in business leaders who were “continually putting the profit motive over what he called the wage motive.” Ford told Garrett, “When business thought only of profit for the owners ‘instead of providing goods for all,’ then it frequently broke down.” http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/history/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html --Steve |
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Title: Re: Killer Question... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/13/15 at 20:02:38 “It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company. |
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