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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> When Oil Evaporates /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1446433248 Message started by pg on 11/01/15 at 19:00:48 |
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Title: When Oil Evaporates Post by pg on 11/01/15 at 19:00:48 Gents: Here is a question for the experts. I hear it is common for big singles to burn some oil particularly when used on the super slap or in periods of high rpms. Can some explain what happens when the oil evaporates? Isn't there something they engineers could do to correct this as well? Thanks. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/01/15 at 19:30:43 It gets burned. Probably has something to do with cylinder pressure and the piston rings. :-? |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/01/15 at 20:18:53 I think most of it gets shoved out the crank case vent as a vapor. I think that's why it's important for that hose to go uphill from the bend as far back as possible. Give it a chance to glom back together and drip back down. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Serowbot on 11/01/15 at 20:36:14 Within the catacombs under Jerusalem, they have found jars containing oils over 2,000 years old... Imagine that... I forgot the question... |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 11:37:07 6A7C6B766E7B766D190 wrote:
Yep, the Dead Sea Scrolls are nothing but a written debate about ZDDP content in Rotella Anointing Oil. I forgot the question as well.... ;) haha But it does burn and smoke well, doesn't it, Bot! ;D Pass it this way, mate 8-) |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Dave on 11/02/15 at 12:03:20 I am not entirely sure where the oil goes - but as the engine load and rpm increase....so does the blow by and oil consumption. (Ever watch the breather hoses on those pulling tractors? Nothing much is coming out of the breather when they are idling around and hooking up - but once they get under full throttle there is all kinds of smoke belching out of the breathers). I think the same thing happens on the Savage. At low rpm and low throttle setting the pressure in the cylinder is not all that high and there is very little that blows past the rings.....there is very little pressure in the crankcase and very little flow out the breather tube. When you are cruising down the interstate at 70-80 mph you likely have to use a fair amount of throttle, the cylinder pressure goes up, the pressure in the crankcase goes up from the blow-by in the cylinder, and more oil/air mix is pushed out the breather tube. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 12:53:49 Where does the light go when I blow out the candle?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/02/15 at 14:09:39 And the oil pump is putting out max flow, and the wrist pin is getting a flood, and all that oil is trying to drip back into the sump, and is being smashed into by the piston and I Suspect that the air in the crankcase is a mist of oil at that point and the crankcase vent hose has just a wadded up scrubby like thing that is supposed to give the oil something to smash into and make droplets and drip back down, but, I never gave it a place to vent into and allow the oil to condense out and see how much is escaping and at what RPMs. That would make a good experiment. Maybe mount a liter cola ,plastic bottle, and vent it up high, and see what accumulates and what RPMS and loads cause it. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by youzguyz on 11/02/15 at 15:43:41 2A3C2B362E3B362D590 wrote:
With your avatar statement.. you need to ask? There is no light.. just an absence of dark. You blew dark at the candle. ;) |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by oldNslow on 11/02/15 at 15:51:27 Quote:
Or just pour it back in the crankcase whenever you stop to take a leak. I'm old enough to remember when cars had "road draft tubes" instead of PCV valves and the associated plumbing. Just a metal pipe that ran from the valve cover down the side of the motor to just below the bottom of the oil pan. When the car was idling you could see the oil mist coming out the end of the tube, and when the car was shut off after being driven for a while oil dripped out of the pipe onto the street. It wasn't considered unusual to have to add a quart of oil every 500 or 1000 miles. Most folks checked the oil every time they stopped for gas. The good old days ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by pg on 11/02/15 at 16:13:54 Why do thumpers for the most part burn oil as opposed to other engines? Why don't they fix them so they don't burn any oil at all, or perhaps a minimal amount? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 16:33:25 It's the big piston and low air-cooling tolerances... They have fixed them... with water cooling and multi-cylinders... Thank God they missed our Savage... 8-)... |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/02/15 at 17:11:40 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
To illustrate your point (somewhat): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwYW1lzKWcE |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 17:30:44 Wow!... neat!... |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/02/15 at 17:51:47 I can just imagine cracking or punching a hole in a plastic diff cover! :o :-? And the Jeep guys take off the stock ones and put ones on that are bulletproof! ::) |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/02/15 at 18:34:33 The blowby pressuring up the crankcase at the same time piston speeds are high and oil pressure is maxed out, creating the oil vapor in the air,,,and the crankcase pressure along with the amount of oil in the air causes oil to get past the scrubby like wadding.. And hopefully someone will run a test. I'd be happier with loss from blowby than burning it. And I don't know why... |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by old_rider on 11/02/15 at 19:43:03 The pressure in my crankcase cases the oil to travel up my speedo cable, and through the thread on the crank case connector, even though it has a factory seal (brand new I changed it 3 times, still does it). But only if i'm traveling on the interstate doing over 74+ for extended periods of time. As far as burning the oil... if I stay below the 74+ mark.... mine doesn't burn a drop, it just gets dirty... one day I will have to change the rings....maybe :) |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/02/15 at 19:57:42 I try not to get over 65. It just sounds/feels like it's going to explode at any second! |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by gizzo on 11/03/15 at 00:45:34 152C372D6E6F5E0 wrote:
That is so stupid. But good to see oil flinging around, I guess. How about a look into a thumper gearbox while it's running? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V_rP88YEP0 |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/03/15 at 18:32:15 That oil looked pretty thin! |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Art Webb on 11/03/15 at 18:57:21 Kris, that's the first time since I started monitoring my data use that I watched a u tube vid (watched the thumper gearbox one I am not sorry I spent that data, thanks for posting |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/03/15 at 20:57:45 Old Rider, you've probably done it, but I would check out the vent tubing, and maybe even pull the oil fill plug and blow into it to see how well it's working. Or, you've got a Lot of blowby, |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Serowbot on 11/03/15 at 21:50:22 112833296A6B5A0 wrote:
If it sounds too busy at 65mph... just downshift into 4th for a couple of minutes... When you go back to 5th,.. it will sound calm as baby snore... 8-)... The bike will do 75 in 3rd... ...(that,... does sound busy!)... :-?... |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Art Webb on 11/04/15 at 09:11:17 sometimes mine sounds strained at 70, sometimes it sounds like it's humming happily away seems happiest when it's cool out akso, have now determined to run her up to 75 in 3rd, just to see what that sounds like what's top speed (or close to it) in 2nd? one thing about the rebel was, it was just too limited by intake to over rev in any gear under load, just pin her ears back and shift when she quit pulling ;D |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Serowbot on 11/04/15 at 09:16:31 The double nickel... (I wouldn't run it there for long)... :o... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/rerun/stockchrt.jpg |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Art Webb on 11/04/15 at 10:23:05 ok so 50 as a safe bet for a short time ;D thanks for the chart, it's been posted here before but darned if I could FIND the fool thing ;) |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/15 at 15:38:23 So, it's not even supposed to be able to bust 100? I think I did, once, but I never got over about 95 after that. I think it was just a perfect weather moment that worked with the jetting , no wind to speak of and a stretch of straight, cement, I-20. I think there is a decrease in rolling resistance on cement. As for the rest of the chart, I never got close to those speeds in those gears unless I was downshifting and braking hard. It stopped pulling hard and I shifted up before those RPMS were happening. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/04/15 at 15:43:54 2432253820353823570 wrote:
Speaking from experience? ;D |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Oldfeller on 11/05/15 at 06:17:30 I dunno Kris, I pumped mine up to 95 mph in third when I was exploring the new cam. Issue was to me it wouldn't go any faster in 4th and was slower in 5th -- symptomatic of running out of HP due to poor breathing, I suspect. I still run 3rd out all the way when trying to go fast, as that gets you on up there the quickest and 4th can generally keep you up there fairly well. 5th gets forgotten a lot by me unless I am just ambling & cruising along. My high RPM engine isn't fresh any more, so that is likely the best I will ever do. At the time I weighed 295 pounds, so a lighter rider could have done better. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by WD on 11/05/15 at 10:35:58 Mine both burn it. The oil fumes do get sucked back into the engine via the carburetor, at least most of them. I've run out (2 full quarts of 10W40 synthetic) in under 300 miles, mostly on old U.S. highways, Mississippi/Tennessee summer heat with the 98. That engine was still oil tight and had a capped puke tube, so the engine had to have burned off the oil during the combustion process. The 03 has so many leaks I plan to top it up every ride, often during the ride. Sometimes more than once if we're riding 60+ for extended periods. If I could still find 1970s surplus Cessna 60wt cheap, that would be in the bike. Leaks like an old Benneville, and has the same Lucas electrical gremlins. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/05/15 at 17:41:00 Just a though (and probably a bad one), could you dilute gear oil enough to achieve the same result as 60 wt? My wife had a Saturn that burned as much oil as gas. I dumped a bottle of some sort of thickener in it. It was advertised as stopping oil leaks/burning. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Dave on 11/06/15 at 12:56:37 OK.....why do you believe you can make an oil for the engine that it better than what a factory can make? Although thick can help slow down oil burning.....thick isn't always better. You should stick with something in the 10W-40, 15W-40 or 20W-50 range.....synthetics may have a broader range. If you make the oil too thick you waste a lot of power just pumping the thick oil, and it drags on the cylinder/piston interface. I believe gear oil is formulated to lubricate gears....high loads and no pumps or tiny passages - it does it's job by being thick and sticky. Gear oil probably doesn't have any detergents to help combat the combustion byproducts that get into the oil......I really don't think it would be good for use inside an engine. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by Kris01 on 11/06/15 at 18:43:19 I agree Dave. WD is using 60 wt oil. It was just a thought. Personally, I wouldn't do it. |
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Title: Re: When Oil Evaporates Post by WD on 11/07/15 at 22:47:35 073E253F7C7D4C0 wrote:
No, that's what I run in big air cooled bikes (Shovelhead or older) in the summer. The Slopokis get 15W40 or 20W50... Can't find good heavy weights anymore, not even HD dealerships carry 60 or 70 around here. And as tiny as Savage oil passages are, going over 50 would probably frag the top end anyway. |
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