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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> What is faith.....?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1446308779 Message started by raydawg on 10/31/15 at 09:26:19 |
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Title: What is faith.....?? Post by raydawg on 10/31/15 at 09:26:19 We all have faith, if not, you would not be able to rise in the morning from slumber. You awaken because you have faith that in living you will fulfill your need of that day. We exhibit faith when we believe a certain candidate or party will provide the best possible solutions to our concerns. We exhibit faith at the beginning of a new sporting season that our team will be the victor. We exhibit faith when we turn the key on our savage and hit the start button ;D Why do we need faith? None of us can know all, just not possible. We have to have a reason to do things that we can't justify with hands on results. Results are often the end result of faith, but that takes a belief first, before results can be verified. Here is my faith based on my action of walking with God.... To walk with God is an incomparable privilege. I believe it is man's highest ambition. A life wholly dominated by the will of God should become my supreme quest. There is nothing above or beyond this.... It opens the way to the best there is at the end of the journey, and all along the way the spiritual treasures are protected, safeguarded, and increased. Victory over temptation is certain. The meaning of life made clear. My human relationships are sanctified, the commonplace is glorified, the future felicity is assured. It does involve giving up some of the things I cherish earthly possession-wise. It does mean I might be sent to the school of suffering and sacrifice. It does call me to unconditional acceptance of the divine program. But, this is not too high a price to pay for the privilege of walking with God. I have not always done this. I have fought for right of mine in the courts of earthly justice. I have had the most touted court in the world take millions of my wealth away based on changing truths (lies) by them who preach and swear to tell the truth. I was right. They were wrong. It made no difference. The end result were the same. I see the folly of my way, and I understand how I got there.... It is as simple as, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. No one escape the exit of this fleshy life, no one. How you want to exit is still in play, that is, if you are reading this text. The question then is, "how do you want to exit?" Are you going to fight against something you don't believe in...... To what, justify a belief, in denying others the right to believe, and act, in a way they want to? Tell me, is your belief self reliant then, or predicated on the actions of others in the flesh? Is your faith vested in if those who believe in a God, all succumb, to the power you want exhibited upon them, that it will give you peace, and serenity..... that is your desire and goal? Is this the same as ISIS or Nazi's or? |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 10/31/15 at 10:45:17 Drivel... Is violent, religious, fanaticism, equatable to not believing?... Hardly... I have no faith,... therefore, I am not driven or manipulated by it... My thoughts, drives, and actions are my own... 74677F62677161060 wrote:
Why so spiteful against those you say cannot possibly believe as you do?... I don't begrudge anyone their faith,... I just don't want my life dictated by it... When Christians stop trying to influence politics,... I'll leave them to their delusions... I don't share that faith,.. I needn't be forced to follow it's dictates. I do not have "faith" that my bike will start... I have confidence... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by raydawg on 10/31/15 at 16:08:00 You judge all of faith according to the behavior of some? I have stated before I don't need my money or pledge to reference my god, nor am I threatened by those who want to drive any open and free expression of it. Oh, and I am confidant too that my faith will provide for me upon my death of this body. I am confidant my eternal life if no sorrow or tear awaits me. I am confidant that those will become aware of their mistaking too. But then it will be too late. But if your confidant of your belief, what I say should be of no concern to you, or any other, can't understand why they worry so much over nothing then :-? |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 10/31/15 at 16:42:03 You started this thread. This ain't a personal diary,.. it's a forum. Comments are expected. What need then drives you post it?... Is the purpose to proselytize, or to invite discussion?... Either way,... it cannot be said that opposing comment is attack. Not when it is so invited.... Peace,... comes from within... I'm at peace with my mortality... any surprise I get will be a welcome one. One that expects more, can only be surprised by less... ...'cept death will not reveal it. So,... we're even... ;D... Peace, Serow 8-)... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by raydawg on 10/31/15 at 17:09:02 Yes, in a way, odd as it may seem, but I am using the social media to dialogue. Believe me Bot, and I am as sincere as I can being using this format, I take ,nor intend, offense to you, or anyone else.... If I can not extend ( in my heart and mind ) the same desires I want extended to me, then I am the conflict in my own life, not what others say or do. Admittedly, it is harder to do, than say, but nevertheless...... :P Oh, and one other admission, I agree ( you did say this, yes? ;D ) Christians are doing a terrible job of witnessing about their faith.... I would offer evidence that if we were living according to scripture, and benefiting as such, the church would be over-flowing with folks wanting to find out what makes us so happy and content.... But, that is not the case, we would rather argue over someones sex life and cake baking :( |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by WebsterMark on 11/01/15 at 06:39:06 Why so spiteful against those you say cannot possibly believe as you do?... I don't begrudge anyone their faith,... I just don't want my life dictated by it... When Christians stop trying to influence politics,... I'll leave them to their delusions... I don't share that faith,.. I needn't be forced to follow it's dictates. I don't share your faith either, atheism. Will you and your fellow congregation of secular humanist stop trying to influence politics ?....... why do I have to accept babies being killed inthe womb, a football coach who gets fired for kneeling at the 50 yard line, religious institutions being forced to pay for abortions, a baker bankrupted for not baking a cake for lesbian fanatics, all historical artifacts removed so as not to "offend"..... Like I said before, this is your world now. You've won, the tide has turned and historical Christian ideals are slowly being overrun. Own the results. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/01/15 at 06:46:13 1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:
................................................................... Like science, for instance? |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by WebsterMark on 11/01/15 at 07:10:22 yea, like science. real science, not your political science. you think the right is scientifically challenged, but its always the left who uses pressure to coerce outcomes. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/01/15 at 07:50:45 Racial, sexual, and ethnic prejudice, are nor rights... not in America. Denial of facts, actually is a right... but, it ain't that smart... :-?... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/01/15 at 08:05:52 506265747362754A66756C070 wrote:
................................................................... Who brought politics into the equation? :-? PS. I don't think the 'right' is scientifically challenged. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/01/15 at 08:37:18 Half a century ago,... a baker might refuse a black man and a white woman their wedding cake. Colored drank from separate drinking fountains, and weren't allowed in many restaurants. Liberals learned a lesson about prejudice... Conservatives just learned a lesson about black people... That was the wrong lesson...:-/... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by MnSpring on 11/01/15 at 15:33:22 “ … Half a century ago,… a baker might refuse a black man and a white woman their wedding cake. …” Yep, that most probably happened. And if the B/W couple, ’sued’, the baker, they would be laughed out of court, provided they even got that far. So, what would happen, if I, went into a, store/restaurant, and they did not, serve/sell, Bacon. Then I, ’sued’, I think I would be laughed out of Court! ( If I even got that far) So then, WHY, does someone today, get, Sued’, and Loose. ? (FOR NOT BAKING A CAKE) Is it not, the SAME THING ? Could it be, going, OVERBOARD ? WAY to the ‘Other’ side ? “ … Colored drank from separate drinking fountains, and weren’t allowed in many restaurants. …” In some places, that sill has not changed. About 15, years ago, I was in a State, and a, ‘Committee’, took me and another person, to dinner before the, ‘event’. We met at the assigned, restaurant, and waited for the rest of the, ‘group’ to arrive. The restaurant had a main entrance, and a coat/gun check at the door. Their was two, ‘doors’, left and right’, from this main entrance. As I stood their, waiting for the restaurant to, put together tables to seat about 15 people., and Waiting for the others to arrive. I noticed, one side, Had, a Big Long empty table. I told the rest of the group: “Hey their is a big table over here’. Just then, the, ‘Chair’ of the Committee, walked in, and GRABBED me, and said: "We, DON’T Go TO that Side, That is the ‘ N xxxxc’, Side”. Do NOT, agree with that , Mentally. ( But when In Rome, ….) “ … Liberals learned a lesson about prejudice…” I do not believe so. I believe all they did, was to go, ‘OVERBOARD’, and apply their P.C. ‘correct’, (*What they thought was), to a situation/attitude, which needed change. “ … Conservatives just learned a lesson about black people… “ Again, I believe the, ‘right’, just stopped the, ‘Pendulum’, from swinging ALL the way. to the Left. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/01/15 at 20:02:40 Row said . When Christians stop trying to influence politics,... I'll leave them to their delusions... Are you aware of who wrote the founding documents? The prayer that opens each session, how our laws and three segments of government are related to the bible? The further God is driven out, the BETTER our society gets,, right? Government isn't supposed to be hostile to religion. The government isn't supposed to Create or demand participation in a religion, THAT is the wall of separation. Not driving any religious observance away from all public buildings. Hurrah for your side, once again choosing to read what isn't as if it is. Read the constitution, Don't think I'm a republican, but, credit to the left for the twisted mess in the schools, confused kids, going in whichever restrooms they Identify As, today. A world where a kid needs a permission slip for a field trip, but abortion, on demand. Point a finger, say bang, go to jail. Yeah, we've progressed. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by raydawg on 11/02/15 at 04:46:29 It was a rather telling admission by bot, that his goal is to drive believers out of the political process. Not to get along and except the outcome of a democracy, no, his mission is to deny the pursuit of happiness for those in opposition. The sad thing is he doesn't even see the insanity of such beliefs and actions. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 05:22:15 4E5D45585D4B5B3C0 wrote:
.................................................................................... I think that is a very twisted interpretation of what Bot what saying. Keeping Christianity separate to politics, rather than keeping Christians out of politics, was his suggestion. I think you know that. Please explain the "insanity" you describe when politics and religion are separate, and the sadness you describe. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by raydawg on 11/02/15 at 05:46:26 I will try.... ;D Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results... Trying to drive a person out of his right to participate in the political arena based on his beliefs will lead only to confrontation, as in doing such you are removing the very consideration of ones own beliefs at the cost of another's, that will never work without enforcing a person against their will. The whole argument of separations is convoluted in both sides. It states no laws should be made to inhibit free expression, yet they try under separation.... You can't seize rate my beliefs from me, even tho they try. It is like trying to say you don't have to be gay.... Unless one walks in that persons life, all they utter is folly. However, organized religion has crossed that line as well, the pledge being one example and the reference to god on the currency is another. I would even say a tax code that allows for tithing to be a write off is against the spirit of why we tithe in the first place. If you want to say no organized folk can lobby on behalf of their beliefs then you will run smack up against their right to free assimilation. And yes, bot appears to me to want it only his way.... This mindset is the root cause for all the misery in this world, and it is exampled by many people of opposing beliefs. The only resolution to such is war, or something similar, to overpower the opposition. Hope that helped :) |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 06:09:10 It helped :) But who is: "Trying to drive a person out of his right to participate in the political arena based on his beliefs...." ? Keeping religion out of politics is not the same as keeping religious people out of politics, (or even wanting to, not that Bot said that, of course). |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by WebsterMark on 11/02/15 at 06:38:28 People are politics. All people in office bring their life experiences with them, so it's impossible to think a religious person wouldn't bring their belief system into any debate anymore than it is to think a non-religious person wouldn't bring that point of view also. I'm not suggesting we do away either point of view, I'm suggesting we stop being militant to one point of view. Granted, I concede in the past 2 centuries, for the most part, it's correct to say the USA was a Christian nation and we rejected many suggestions from non-Christian sources. We are still a long way from having a leading Presidential candidate stand up and say I'm an atheist. Agnostic, sure, that will likely come first, but atheist? I think that's a way off. I would also say we stop revising history into a disaster caused by Christianity. Fact is, the world is a far, far better place with Christian values running the USA (granted, many times far in the background, but nonetheless, present) than the world would be without it's influence. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 06:54:28 083A3D2C2B3A2D123E2D345F0 wrote:
.............................................................. I'd suggest that is an opinion, not fact. Never the less, Christian values such as "thou shalt not kill" are ignored when "Christian values (are) running the USA", as you put it. Why? |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by oldNslow on 11/02/15 at 06:59:33 Hovis wrote: Quote:
Simply because, like it or not, there are sometimes folks that need to be killed. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 07:22:59 Agnostic, is just a wishywashy way to say atheist... Since atheism requires no faith,... it is, of course, open to new evidence or ideas... I call myself an atheist, because when I called myself an agnostic, religious people would try to convert me. Atheism, conveys a more confident view. Raydawg distorts my contention. Separation of church from state, is not the removal of Christians from government. The church is your house,.. I will not invade it, and spout sacrilege in it... The congress is all our house,... leave your preaching at the door. The argument that a fetus is a human life is a legitimate perspective... The argument that God says it is murder, is not... "Marriage" is not a holy union,.. when the government bestows legal rights and license upon it. Churches should be allowed to refuse to marry those that it disagrees with,.. but not the US government. A baker operates his his business under a government license, and agrees to meet certain operational standards. He must treat all customers equally, and deliver service without prejudice. Refusal of service to individuals is permitted, but not based on prejudice... As an atheist,.. a Christian counter person at the auto shop is required to sell me spark plugs. If I am rude and belligerent, and appear to be drunk, he is not. It is about being allowed to hold your own beliefs, without having the beliefs of others imposed on you. In order for your beliefs to be protected,... you must respect the beliefs of others. Defense of women, gays, atheists, Muslims, etc... protects your own rights. Prejudice against others, weakens your own protections... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 07:39:29 457B7A76647879170 wrote:
............................................................................. My interpretation of Jesus' teachings (and also the 10 commandments) says otherwise. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by oldNslow on 11/02/15 at 07:43:59 bot wrote: Quote:
No, it's not. It's simply an acknowledgement that one is not sure whether God exists or doesn't exist , and is not presumptuous enough to be convinced that ones views on the subject are without a doubt correct. I was raised in a Christian family but now consider myself agnostic. I am willing to admit that there are things I simply do not understand. If you are so positive of your beliefs that you don't need to entertain any doubt, good for you. I'm not. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by raydawg on 11/02/15 at 08:24:10 Dang bot, you are ripe in your own assessments, having to resort to interpretation as fact, what, just to bolster your beliefs? Agnostic is not an atheist, even if you want to include them in your believe, to what, increase your representation? You even go into chastise them, why? Earlier I said faith and belief were one of the same, yet you said you have none, only confidence. I suggest you look the word up, as confidence is having faith, or belief, in the topic at hand.... You can change things to meet your desired results, they will be only yours.....it will never bridge the ignorance of understanding. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 09:20:49 Can you believe in God and eternal life,... a little bit?... :-/... I can't... even if I could, I wouldn't... Out of respect to the imaginary being above... ;D... Confidence ... generally described as a state of being certain either that a hypothesis or prediction is correct or that a chosen course of action is the best or most effective. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 09:21:12 Faith? "We all have faith, if not, you would not be able to rise in the morning from slumber." I awake and rise because of a need to eat/drink/use-toilet/answer the door/phone. There is no faith involved. "You awaken because you have faith that in living you will fulfill your need of that day." I awaken because of the internal chemical reactions or outside disturbance. "We exhibit faith when we believe a certain candidate or party will provide the best possible solutions to our concerns." We generally are cynical (read 'disbelief') when it comes to candidates/parties providing best possible solutions to our concerns. "We exhibit faith at the beginning of a new sporting season that our team will be the victor." Not really, we'd all like our team to win, but realistically we believe (and might bet) that they will finish in, more or less, the same position as the previous season, give or take a few places. (Unless you support Chelsea FC!) "We exhibit faith when we turn the key on our savage and hit the start button ;D " I expect it to start, because I appreciate the scientific design and logic that were used to create this machine. I don't exhibit anything except joyous anticipation of a great road :D (okay, sometimes I exhibit frustration at my battery's lack of charge) :-[ |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 09:30:36 Faith... is belief without evidence... Confidence... is belief based on evidence... Isn't that actually a tenet of religion?... To believe without proof?... If there were proof,.. faith wouldn't be required... JMHO... 8-)... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by thumperclone on 11/02/15 at 10:11:06 last time politics and religion mixed "witches" were burnt at the stake |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by oldNslow on 11/02/15 at 10:28:08 6478657D607562737C7F7E75100 wrote:
I don't think there's been a "last time" yet. I'd be willing to bet that a proponent of "the religion of peace" is chopping some poor basta*d's head off while I'm typing this. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 10:34:47 Likely so.... ;D... Excuse the laughing,... it's the phrasing that got me... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Dane Allen on 11/02/15 at 11:35:12 786E79647C69647F0B0 wrote:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Atheism is most definitely a faith, the faith that 2,000+ years of history (Christian, that is, more or less for others) doesn't exist. The Atheist goes beyond the Agnostic "there is no way of knowing either way" to full on "there is not currently nor never was any divine being". That takes an immense amount of faith. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 11:43:16 Quote Dane; "Atheism is most definitely a faith, the faith that 2,000+ years of history (Christian, that is, more or less for others) doesn't exist." ........................................................................ :-? I think you are mistaken. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/02/15 at 12:23:31 Human evolution... With self-awareness, comes the realization of mortality... We fear death, yet we know it is inevitable... so we create an afterlife... We create God because somebody had to make the afterlife... We also create some way to get high... :-?... So far,... it seems virtually universal amongst us humans... We create our gods, they don't create us... Religion,.. is the organization of beliefs as a method of manipulation, by the powers that be... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qYJv1IPuFI [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qYJv1IPuFI[/media] |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/02/15 at 12:33:00 We all ride bikes here (I presume). Some of us are in clubs, whether patch wearers or local Owner's Clubs. Some of us aren't in clubs (myself included) at all. But we can all ride, we don't need to be in a club to actually ride. Same with 'living with faith' or living without it. We don't need to have a faith to live our lives, but some chose to, for many different reasons. So why does a 'believer' insist that atheists exhibit faith when they base their life on all but faith, preferring science, logic, empiricism? If a biker isn't in a club, it doesn't therefore mean he is actually in the "un-club" or the "non-club". He simply is not in a club. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by raydawg on 11/02/15 at 13:00:53 Absence of light is darkness..... That is an undeniable fact. We could then say light is white, and darkness, black. We could then offer shades, and that might bring the difference closer to the same, however, that does not change the original declaration. As evidenced here, minds are made upon what one believes, and I doubt anybody will change, nor will you remove a believers right to participate and promote those matters they believe will lead to a better life for all mankind. You deny that, you deny yourself, as peace will never be sustained in such an environment.... We have seen the results of theocracies, we have seen the results of dictatorship, and everything between, none have withstood. Riddle that, and you might find the truth.... You all have fun now ;D |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by MnSpring on 11/02/15 at 17:10:42 Just, depends on what you see. Humans, cannot, ’see’, radio waves. If they could, 200 years ago, they would be able to, ’see’, the same things, we all see now. But today, if we, could, see, Radio Waves, all of us, (especially in a City), would, Only, ’see’, the radio waves. So if one, believes, radio waves, do not exist, just because they cannot be, seen. Well it is just what they Believe. (You do know, their ARE people that Still, believe, the Earth is Flat !) 100’s + of, different religions. and they all have no problem, with each other, (Well, except ONE, which says they will take your Head off, if you do not believe like them) Sure, they all, ’sell’, their brand. But NONE, ’Shove It Down Your Throat’. (Well, ‘again’, except one) So if a person has a faith/believe, it is theirs. And if mine is different, Not a problem. Just like, I like, Females ! If a person is a male, and, ‘likes’, other males. That is what, THEY, have chosen. And the, Smart, ones, do not ‘demand’, the others, (Who like Females), like, the same thing they like. Personally, I believe, ‘Atheism’, is a religion, of Not, believing in other religions. (Or a Deity of any sort) Where, ‘Agnostic’, is just not believing in anything. Is this the time for the, ‘Rodney King’ quote ? ;D |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Dane Allen on 11/03/15 at 09:54:18 4D6A736C765577607669607C050 wrote:
Well, apparently not, from Dictionary.com: noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith. 6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith. 7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles. 8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/03/15 at 10:04:00 Where, in that 1-8, does it refer to 'atheism' meaning 'to forget history' or suchlike? |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Paraquat on 11/03/15 at 11:05:03 I had copied and pasted the Merriam Webster definition but deleted the post before submission. Are you a politician? You're arguing semantics. Dane (and correct me if I'm wrong, Dane) isn't saying it doesn't exist but that it didn't really happen - as in, Christianity is bullshit, along with the other numerous religions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sacn_bCj8tQ --Steve |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/03/15 at 17:14:48 4F68716E74577562746B627E070 wrote:
..................................................... Seemed a straight forward question to me. I think Dane answered a question about what he believes 'faith' to be, whilst missing the question about atheism being most definitely a faith. The idea of atheists saying 'religion is BS' is a different matter |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Dane Allen on 11/06/15 at 10:31:19 63445D42587B594E58474E522B0 wrote:
..................................................... Seemed a straight forward question to me. I think Dane answered a question about what he believes 'faith' to be, whilst missing the question about atheism being most definitely a faith. The idea of atheists saying 'religion is BS' is a different matter [/quote] Numbers 2, 4 and 6 from the definition above. |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/06/15 at 13:01:17 Faith in the context of religion, has more specific definition... PS... guess what word has the most definitions in the English language?... ::) ::) ::) ::)... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by Serowbot on 11/06/15 at 13:01:33 Time's up... It's "run"... |
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Title: Re: What is faith.....?? Post by HovisPresley on 11/06/15 at 17:36:18 Numbers 2, 4 and 6 don't explain much about history... |
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