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Message started by WebsterMark on 10/22/15 at 18:50:53

Title: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/22/15 at 18:50:53

As Spock would say, 'Fascinating'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA-FcnLsF1g&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/24/15 at 05:37:27

surprised no one has commented on this. If you have even the slightest interest in math and science, its worth the time. I bought this guys book after watching this (which is something I rarely do) and while it's way above me, its worth the effort to get through it.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/24/15 at 09:00:31

I suppose I am the resident religious skeptic...

So, a group of lofty credentialed believers try to prove God's existence by mathematical improbability...

The problem is,... whenever we attribute what we can't understand to the supernatural, we are ultimately proven wrong...
Zeus, does not make the thunder...
Poseidon, does not make the waves in the sea...
Santa can't fit down the chimney...

It has been said, that it is aerodynamically impossible for a bee to fly,... (we don't have a god for that)... :-/...

Real science, tries to explain what is,... not prove that they can't, and therefore attribute it to mysticism...
Real science knows that we don't know, much more than know... but it don't just wring it's hands and say God must'a done it....

There is a small concession in "intelligent design" over creationism, in that it admits to evolution but seeks to attribute it to a god...
...but then why would an infallible, all knowing, god,.. need to make corrections to his creations?...
...or is he just f''kin around?... :-?...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by HovisPresley on 10/24/15 at 10:04:34

5741564B53464B50240 wrote:

...but then why would an infallible, all knowing, god,.. need to make corrections to his creations?...
...or is he just f''kin around?... :-?...

......................................................................

He couldn't persuade the crabs to walk forwards.....

And he was definitely having a laugh when he made the duck-billed platypus....

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/24/15 at 19:06:18

I suppose I am the resident religious skeptic...

So, a group of lofty credentialed believers try to prove God's existence by mathematical improbability...

yes. Is that any different than all those lofty, credentialed atheist who try to disprove?

It has been said, that it is aerodynamically impossible for a bee to fly,... (we don't have a god for that)... Undecided...

actually, nobody with a brain ever said that. you could put big enough wings moving fast enough and you could fly a refrigerator.

Real science, tries to explain what is,... not prove that they can't, and therefore attribute it to mysticism...

that statement leads me to believe you didnt really watch this or you aren't capable of grasping his point. If you're suggesting this wasn't real science, than math is what? A Vegas illusion?

Real science knows that we don't know, much more than know... but it don't just wring it's hands and say God must'a done it....

he did just the opposite. hes asking questions that even darwin said need to be researched further. The truth is, when pressed about the gaps inDarwinism, the response they give is to have faith that fossils will be found to fill in those troubling gaps. Have faith.....thats funny.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/24/15 at 19:21:00

I suggest you watch it again and tell me where you think he's wrong.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/25/15 at 06:57:43

In our lifetime, the historical understanding of Darwinism will evolve much like the same manner in which Newton's work evolved by Einstein's work. Just like in understanding gravity, Einstein had information unavailable to Newton. Darwin did not know about DNA and the role it plays in genetics. Not only was Darwin exceptionally bright, he was wise enough to say his theory needed to be throughly studied. He saw a few gaps and theorized why they existed, but stressed the need for continual work.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by raydawg on 10/25/15 at 07:48:08

Intelligent design by another source could call itself whatever it likes ;D

To be fair, to say a god does not exist would take an open mind, not biased, or prejudiced, and with great in depth research, and at the end of all of that study, it would only be a "belief" that he does not exist.

So, what is faith then?

How can it be measured?

Simple, if you ask me.

If it is sustainable peace of ones being, without the need to prove opposing wrong.
Lets call it living in harmony with ones understandings.

Atheist go crazy if they see a cross, believers are threatened if they have to bake a cake for a gay couple.....

THAT..... ain't sustainability of ones being, by living in the strength of their faith.

The question one needs to ask themselves is, how do my actions testify to what I expect others to be, based upon what I believe?

Here, Mahatma Gandhi said it best,

“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”

So many of the ills, and addictions, of society are rooted in the fact people have a void, emptiness, or lack of relationship with self.
Instead of looking into the mirror of ones soul, with painfully honest eyes, they bail, blaming and assigning victim-hood as cause, seeking affirmation of others of like mind as repair....

Is that sustainable living?

You better agree with me or else >:(

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by raydawg on 10/25/15 at 08:09:51

What/who is God?

I don't know.

I have often tried to intellectualize Him :o

Here is what I came up......

I will start with a question, defined ( in my mind ).

What "source" is needed for all other things to become real?

Energy.

Many theories of a big bang, or other energy based events started this whole solar system.

So, energy it is firstly.

Gee, my savage is energy, it delivers my big butt to work, which allows me to earn a paycheck, which allows me to buy a house, food, women ;D

Golly, my lil' motorcycle provides a life/living for so many other folk, because it is the source of my ability to get to work and start this chain of events.

The savage is god then....

Whats that you say?

It needs gas in order to do that?

Oh....energy, yes ;D

Gee, then I guess that removes my bike from the list of possible gods, eh, and shifts it to the BIG oil companies ( getting closer huh :o )

So..... the question is becoming clearer, even tho the answer is not.....

Who is energy?

The very first source of it? :-?

Is God perpetual motion then?

Would the first source be able to design according to its understand or whims?

Is not all things in our solar system not held together by the control of energy?

Goodness.....my head hurts :-X

It is WAAAAAAY easier for me to believe in a God that desires me, as small and as meek as a nano spec of energy mass of no consequence, because that is HIS design.....
Than to try and intellectualize it all.

I am at peace with that understanding.
What better way to live than being at peace with oneself?

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by verslagen1 on 10/25/15 at 10:22:02

I am no DNA expert, but if there's only 1 in 10^77 that work...
how come my DNA doesn't match yours?
how come I don't look like you?
there's a lot more going on then one string of information.

let's ask "deep thought" :-?

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/25/15 at 10:51:34

1 in 10^77... or whatever, really ain't that big a number when you take in the fact that there are 100's of billions of planets, on 100's of billions of stars, in 100's of billions of galaxy's...
Odds are anything that can happen, will happen...
Then,... once life has a foothold,... evolution happens...
The difference between us, and a chicken, ain't that much genetically...
Heck,.. we ain't got that much over a banana... :-/...
;D...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by gizzo on 10/25/15 at 14:09:42

I'm with versy on this. Many answers to life's problems can be found in the good book. That's right, the Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy. Heres the no god argument. Replace Babel fish with magnetism, evolution, or whatever and you're done.
http://www.whysanity.net/monos/hikers.html

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/25/15 at 16:14:13

2432253820353823570 wrote:

Sew, you really didn't listen or read up on this at all did you? There are only 10 to the 60th ATOMS in our Milky Way galaxy. 10 to the 77 is an unimaginably huge number. 100s of billions x 100s x 100s is a fraction of 10 to the 77th.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/25/15 at 16:56:20

I suck at math... :-?...

We are, therefore we be... :-/...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by MnSpring on 10/25/15 at 17:00:41

At one time, it was totally believed that the Earth was ‘Flat’.
And if you sailed to far out in the Oceans, you just, ‘fell off’.
Then, it was discovered, that the Earth was, ‘Round’.
It was also widely believed that the Sun, rotated Around, the Earth.
Later it was discovered, the Earth, went Around the Sun.

At one time, colored glassed were thought to treat illness.
(Yellow- syphilis, blue-insanity, pink-depression)

Before, ‘Germs’ (and the like) were discovered,
‘Bad-Air’, made people sick.

Before penicillin. Warm soil, Urine, & spider webs were used,
(And ALL sorts of other things), to treat a infection.

Each time, their was a change, in ’new’ knowledge, or a ’new’ theory of something. Their were always people that believed the, ‘old’ way. Some clung to it to the bitter end. Some even, ‘Punished’, others for believing the, ’new’ thing.

Where we are now, concerning, DNA, Genes, ‘ Creation vs Evolution’, etc.
(As far advanced as we all believe we are now), is relatively,
LIGHT YEARS, BEFORE,
People thought the Earth was Flat.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by HovisPresley on 10/25/15 at 17:31:17

7655684B4952555C3B0 wrote:

At one time, it was totally believed that the Earth was ‘Flat’.
And if you sailed to far out in the Oceans, you just, ‘fell off’.
Then, it was discovered, that the Earth was, ‘Round’.
It was also widely believed that the Sun, rotated Around, the Earth.
Later is was discovered, the Sun, went Around the Earth.

At one time, colored glassed were thought to treat illness.
(Yellow- syphilis, blue-insanity, pink-depression)

Before, ‘Germs’ (and the like) were discovered,
‘Bad-Air’, made people sick.

Before penicillin. Warm soil, Urine, & spider webs were used,
(And ALL sorts of other things), to treat a infection.

Each time, their was a change, in ’new’ knowledge, or a ’new’ theory of something. Their were always people that believed the, ‘old’ way. Some clung to it to the bitter end. Some even, ‘Punished’, others for believing the, ’new’ thing.

Where we are now, concerning, DNA, Genes, ‘ Creation vs Evolution’, etc.
(As far advanced as we all believe we are now), is relatively,
LIGHT YEARS, BEFORE,
People thought the Earth was Flat.

.......................................................................

You might want to correct the bit about the sun/earth, but what does the last sentence mean, about where we are now, etc?

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by raydawg on 10/25/15 at 17:49:50

I think the speed of light was considered the fastest anything could travel. You look at the stars above, they could in all actuality only be an imagine you see, not the real star, for it could have burned out by the time it took the imagine to travel to your eyeball.....

However, that speed has been elapsed, which means time travel might be possible then.
If that's the case, we can find answers to all our questions then.

Back to the future ;D

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/25/15 at 17:54:47

who said lightspeed has been exceeded?

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by HovisPresley on 10/25/15 at 17:56:28

7A484F5E59485F604C5F462D0 wrote:

who said lightspeed has been exceeded?

....................................................................

Not Suzuki Savage owners ;) ;D

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/25/15 at 17:58:39

796F78657D68657E0A0 wrote:

I suck at math... :-?...

We are, therefore we be... :-/...

Other people don't suck at math and that math is calling into question long held beliefs that people have been (metaphorically speaking) burned at the stake for questioning.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by raydawg on 10/25/15 at 19:22:54

152720313627300F233029420 wrote:

who said lightspeed has been exceeded?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/22/cern-light-speed_n_977014.html

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/26/15 at 06:07:35

it turned out to be a loose wire. It cost the lead scientist his job as he re-signed. The results of the test were never supposed to be public until they had a chance to do all the verification work but it got leaked that they had discovered a faster than light particle.

http://nautil.us/issue/24/error/the-data-that-threatened-to-break-physics

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/26/15 at 07:59:43

Tell me if I'm wrong,.. but they seem to be doing mathematical odds for all permutations of DNA...
I doubt it works that way...
Many parts of DNA are not significant... (they choose our hair color, eye color, male pattern baldness, length of our toes, whether we like music, whether we will get cancer or Parkinson's, or heart trouble, or if we get freckles, if we are tall or short, etc....(millions of differences that make us individual)...
Also,.. some parts of DNA may not accept random exchange... (more like a jigsaw than a Lego, if you get my meaning)... (we all have different noses, but nobody grows a foot on their nose)...
(Image how hard a car would be to assemble if every part, from doorknob to air compressor, were interchangeable)...
I don't think we know enough about DNA to assume, but I doubt that all parts are equally interchangeable....
These keys and redundancies could reduce odds by a thousandfold or much, much, more...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/26/15 at 08:32:16

yes, you're wrong. I'm reading this guy's book now (and a couple others) which go into much greater detail.

When DNA was being discovered and worked on, it was thought the sequencing didn't have to be exact for the protein to be successful. Early on the scientist working on DNA, realized the mathematical implications of what they were finding meant for Darwinism. So they made the assumption that, since gradual evolution had to be true, then sequencing didn't have to be exact. To use the analogy in the video, instead of only one combination being correct in a bike lock, several hundred combinations of numbers could open the lock. However, as DNA became more understood, they found exact sequencing was vital for success. He does talk about a few cases where there are in fact more than one combination that works, but those are rare and the workable combinations are still very few.

And his examples are on the simplest forms, not the complex ones which would require exponentially greater odds. Math doesn't lie and that's why this is gaining traction. Remember, billions x billions x billions seems large but is a fraction of the odds required for the DNA sequence to form at random. 250 billion x 250 billion x 250 billion = 1.525 x 10^34 which is a tiny fraction of 10^77.

Set aside the idea that this challenge to historical Darwinism is a challenge against atheism or whatever. Take one step at a time.

Is it a mathematical impossibility (as much as impossible can be) that the wide variety of life forms on this planet could have evolved through random mutation given the time available?

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by verslagen1 on 10/26/15 at 08:45:03

382E39243C29243F4B0 wrote:

I suck at math... :-?...

We are, therefore we be... :-/...

What they are saying is there's only one combination that works.
That's like saying there are only savages to ride, no hardleys, no hondas, no kawas... etc, etc. And heaven forbids that you bob it. :o

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/26/15 at 08:48:13

It is like saying if you took apart a million different motorcycles completely, put them in a big box and shook it up, opened the box and pulled out a Savage.

Now, if it were a 650 VStrom then maybe......

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/26/15 at 09:30:28

Okay,.... here's my last shot at the argument... ;D...
It can happen,.. because it does...

Every day, millions of people, animals, and plants are created...
...,but, they are not pulled from a bin of random DNA...
A chicken's DNA knows it's a chicken, and therefore does not make a rabbit...
Mutations do happen, and some become evolutionary...
But it is a chicken mutation, not a rabbit...

When we know how to make a chicken from scratch,.. we will know the odds...

Apparently,... chickens already know this... ;D...

If you believe God did this,... why?...
Why did he/she make it so fragile and complicated?.. and why did he leave open the option for cancer, retardation, etc?...
This would be a sadistically, cruel god...
I am more comfortable believing this kind of a god is a myth...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/26/15 at 10:16:52

If you believe God did this,... why?...
Why did he/she make it so fragile and complicated?.. and why did he leave open the option for cancer, retardation, etc?...
This would be a sadistically, cruel god...
I am more comfortable believing this kind of a god is a myth...

If you really want to know the answer to that, I can tell you, but it won't sit well with you. It doesn't sit well with me either.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by pg on 10/26/15 at 10:18:45

Quote:

If you really want to know the answer to that, I can tell you, but it won't sit well with you. It doesn't sit well with me either.

Let's hear it....

Best regards,

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/26/15 at 10:25:00

When we know how to make a chicken from scratch,.. we will know the odds...

and therein lies the point: we can't make a chicken from scratch. We can't make the simplest, most primitive life form. We have never witnessed it happening. We discover new life forms that are already in existence, we find evidence of life forms that have existed and are now gone, but we've never witness a new life form emerge. We can alter life forms in the lab, but we cannot create a new species. They've added synthetic DNA to existing bacteria essentially creating a new cell that's alive, but as the lead researcher said, they did not create life.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/26/15 at 10:35:42

Yet... :-?...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by WebsterMark on 10/26/15 at 12:50:36

1007010D0212600 wrote:

Quote:

If you really want to know the answer to that, I can tell you, but it won't sit well with you. It doesn't sit well with me either.

Let's hear it....

Best regards,

Okay, here’s is my take on the historical Christianity explanation for why the world is in the shape it’s in and why it seems God does not interfere.

God created “creation” which included the Earth and mankind. This creation was perfection. From a scientific point of view, you could say the 3 laws of thermodynamics did not exist. There was no entropy, there was no decay. The creation did not age as age is a factor of entropy and decay. That included mankind.

One way to see this is to look at the end of Chapter 2 of Genesis and the beginning of Chapter 3 and ask how much time passed. It could have been millions or billions of years. If Christians point to an eternal paradise without end, that is what the original intention behind creation was so why couldn’t eons have passed between the end of chapter 2 and beginning of chapter 3?

Anyway, at some point previous to all this, there was a rebellion in heaven of created beings during which God banished the angel Lucifer. Perhaps Lucifer took others with him. Or perhaps he created other beings. Lucifer then took the opportunity to attack one of God’s favorite creations, mankind.

What is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them? You have made them a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor. You made them rulers over the works of your hands; you put everything under their feet:

After he was successful and corrupted mankind, God put in place a plan of redemption for mankind. This corruption not only affection human beings, but creation as well.

From Book of Romans: For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

It’s always been interesting to me that these verses written a couple thousand years ago describe what we call today the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Everything decays, noting is permanent. The phrase “bondage to decay” is a great description that you cannot alter the natural state of decay.

Anyway, mankind would need a sacrifice in order to be able to present themselves blameless before God again. Without this sacrifice, man is unable to stand in the presence of God. Now to us, this seems strange. Seems like there are a million other ways to accomplish this, but the sacrificial method is what was chosen.

You can view the Bible as 3 parts, the first part is the story of creation which is the first few chapters of Genesis, the third part is the end of human history as detailed in Revelation, but everything in between, the second part, is the plan of redemption.

So the plan of redemption is what is underway today. The perfect creation was corrupted and the condition of the world today is mankind’s fault, not God’s. Events unfold as random order dictates with exceptions when God decides to step in.

I am not one of these ‘God directs my every move’ believers. I know many who are, but that makes no sense to me and all this has to make sense to me. If it didn’t, I’m playing golf every Sunday morning and lowering my handicap further.

The difficult part is asking why doesn’t God intervene when we see unfairness and why not just stop this nonsense right now. What is he waiting for? If Revelation is coming, start it now. Why have humans born only to live horrible lives and suffer death. i.e. Holocaust victims for example.

Here’s is where my conjecture comes into play as I can’t really point to anything. I tend to believe that when creation began, everything that ever was going to be was created and this includes the human soul. My belief is that the delay is because not every soul has been paired with a body. When that happens, the beginning of the end will begin.
Until then, the idea that God doesn’t intervene isn’t true. He does, but granted, it seems rare and without fairness.

But things do swirl on around is that we cannot see. Think of it as a 4th dimension. There’s a fascinating exchange in the Book of Daniel:
Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

If you think about the ramifications of this, it’s amazing. Here was an angel, assigned to take a message to Daniel in answer to his prayers, but he was late due to a battle. In fact, the battle was so difficult, he needed help from another angel.

So while it may seem to us that delays are without rhyme or reason, it very well could be God is busy and we’re on our own.

That’s enough of my theories for now. I expect the bombardment to commence!....

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/26/15 at 14:18:01

Well thought out... as good a theory as any, for a religious minded person...

I really like the bible as myth...
It just doesn't convince me to believe...
I know it requires "faith"... but, maybe I was born without any...
Missing the God gene...
If so,... it must be God's fault for leaving it out...

I will accept the moral lessons of all religions,... all written by men, not gods...but keep the allegory as myth...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by pg on 10/26/15 at 16:38:29

Quote:

The difficult part is asking why doesn’t God intervene when we see unfairness and why not just stop this nonsense right now. What is he waiting for? If Revelation is coming, start it now. Why have humans born only to live horrible lives and suffer death. i.e. Holocaust victims for example.

Interesting, and well thought response.

We had a family friend who was a priest during WW2 in the European theater. A true man of the clothe, so to speak. After D-Day, he said he saw so many atrocities and quit the church when he returned to the states. He said God would not let that happen.

Best regards,

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by raydawg on 10/26/15 at 18:46:41

Sin and evil exist in this world presently, and yes Jesus will deal with it.

To try and understand the Bible without the benefit of the Holy Spirit, well, you never will will, its that simple.

This world is only temporary, as real as it seems :-?

Hey..... you know whats funny, those who cry about a "myth".....

You know, "separation of myth and state" ;D

What's next, we can't have Halloween :D

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by MnSpring on 10/28/15 at 17:46:42

Their are a number of, ‘Gods’, depending on your religion.

The word, Deity, describes, ‘A God’,
(whatever the name of such a God in your religion).

So, does it not come down to, ‘US’,
How WE, deal with everyday things?

Whatever your, ‘Deity’, is named, (If you believe in, him/her).
It STILL, comes down to US.

Let’s say you Judge a Dog Trial.
It does NOT matter, if you do something you should, or should not do.
You KNOW, the, ‘rules’, (of that, ’trial’), BEFORE, you enter.
(In Life, you are, Taught’, the, ‘rules’).

You do something, which is, NOT the, Rule, your, OUT
You DO things which are allowed by that, Rule, your IN.

It is That Simple.

The, ‘Judge’ does NOT say, (or prevent), you from doing something,
What you do, is what YOU, do, and you will be Judged accordingly !

Look at a, ‘Missionary’. Their were and are, MANY, in MANY different religions.
They all, ’SELL’, their own brand of, religion.

They ALL say: “You will go to Hell if you do not believe, MY, religion”.

How many, ‘religions’, (or non believers), say:
We will KILL YOU, if you do not believe the way we believe” ?

No one, NO ONE, can live a perfect life.
Yet, we ALL, must strive for a Goal, which we KNOW we cannot achieve.
(Even though you, 'believe', in not, 'believing'.)

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by Serowbot on 10/28/15 at 18:16:29

32213924213727400 wrote:

Hey..... you know whats funny, those who cry about a "myth".....

You know, "separation of myth and state" ;D

What's next, we can't have Halloween :D

Halloween is a pagan celebration...
Actually,... all the Christian holidays, are pagan...
Christianity is just paganism cloaked in a Jewish anti-hero mythology...

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/15 at 21:36:27

576562737465724D61726B000 wrote:

[quote author=1007010D0212600 link=1445565053/15#28 date=1445879925]
Quote:

If you really want to know the answer to that, I can tell you, but it won't sit well with you. It doesn't sit well with me either.

Let's hear it....

Best regards,

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by raydawg on 10/29/15 at 10:48:09

Well not, you showed the consistency of the atheist in their right not to believe and cast Halloween and Christmas to the same lot, yet, Halloween is not a what, threat pagan-wise to those who demand no public display of ones faith....
Talk about twisted logic, goodness

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/15 at 06:32:53

Nothing demands no

Religion

Watching someone celebrate a holiday , Halloween,,after doing it forever is no big deal . And the lost I made reference to, if perfect, would remove need for further discussion, nobody gets it perfect. Anyone who digs for the imperfections in order to justify ignoring the rest, well, let them.
Everyone knows compromises have been made. Political reasons, expediency, mankind sux, a million reasons.

That's still the best post I've seen in a long time.

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by cheapnewb24 on 12/04/15 at 15:43:40

Watched the video-- some good stuff. I used to be into biology and philosophy while I was in college. Not lately though. I am familiar with at least some of the ideas. I gather that past a certain degree of improbability, mathematically speaking, you may as well say that something is just not going to happen. Is anyone familiar with this idea?

Title: Re: The Informaton Enigma
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/04/15 at 19:37:35

Mark, I don't think Satan was able to create anyone or anything, only steal,kill and destroy.