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Message started by rockabilly on 10/12/15 at 11:51:22

Title: Clutch issues
Post by rockabilly on 10/12/15 at 11:51:22

Hi - I'm having a nightmare with the clutch on my 86 savage. Clutch started slipping under 2 up acceleration and at the top end. So I thought I'd treat it to a new set of EBC springs and plates (EBC springs 15% stronger than standard.
Straightforward replacement bolted it all back up and found I had far to much cable play, whipped the side off again, plates out, plates in reassemble and everything seemed fine.
Side on - pulled in the clutch lever .........SNAP..no clutch :'( Side off and it's snapped the clutch release cam! So while I'm waiting for a replacement (from the US) I look at the clutch and with no springs putting any pressure I would have expected there to be a bit of play between plates - but with the clutch nut torqued up to 60n-m everything is rock solid - and I don't think this is right ..is it?
Don't want to wait for the new unit only to stick it alll together and snap it again! Any advice have I missed something? :-[

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by Dave on 10/12/15 at 12:27:49

One of your clutch plates will have a different ID than the rest of them. It needs to be assembled as the outermost disc.....the small metal disc fits inside that clutch disc.

http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=432124&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2005&fveh=10118

And.....there are reports that the metal part you broke isn't up to the task of 10-15% stronger springs. Some folks have broken that part with just the stock springs.

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/15 at 12:36:17

6578747C76757E7B7B6E170 wrote:

Straightforward replacement bolted it all back up and found I had far to much cable play, whipped the side off again, plates out, plates in reassemble and everything seemed fine.

You took the side cover off to adjust the cable?
[quote]Side on - pulled in the clutch lever .........SNAP..no clutch :'( Side off and it's snapped the clutch release cam! So while I'm waiting for a replacement (from the US) I look at the clutch and with no springs putting any pressure I would have expected there to be a bit of play between plates - but with the clutch nut torqued up to 60n-m everything is rock solid - and I don't think this is right ..is it?
Don't want to wait for the new unit only to stick it alll together and snap it again! Any advice have I missed something? :-[/quote]
You need to check the protrusion of the clutch throwout rod.
I generally set as close to 12.5mm as I can, and have made Half size rods to do this. (rather than increments of 1mm, 0.5mm)
This will get you into a sweet spot on actuation.

I also noticed the corners of the rod get a burr so I grind a full radius on them (this does shorten them a bit)
The full radius fits better in the throwout cam.

Next, the clutch pack can easily get off center when assembling as installed.
I think it's the wave washer that gets mislocated and jams.
If you do it on the bench, then lock it up with the springs before putting it on the bike, I've had no problems.
install at least 2 opposing springs with a washer and the bolt.

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by rockabilly on 10/12/15 at 12:52:23

Cheers for the response - yep I did miss that the first time but when I reassembled I have the narrower plate at the front and the "wave" plate(s) are in the correct order as well. the washer between the drum and inner drum is right, but there just isn't any movement on the clutch plates to allow it to disengage. Must be honest it's a bit different layout from the more usual clutches I've worked on in that they have always been pushrod direct against the pressure plate. That's probably why I'm struggling with this one!! (Or I'm getting old!)

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by rockabilly on 10/12/15 at 12:59:58

Sorry responses getting out of synch as my link is playing up.
No didn't take side off to adjust cable - I knew there was a mis-assembly as there was way too much cable even with both adjusters screwed out to their max (engine and lever). So side off to identify the issue.
Good idea to do it on the bench and then bolt down. I'll give it a go tomorrow! There's def something amiss as with no springs I would have expected the clutch to spin quite merrily when I put a spanner to the clutch nut but it doesn't everything is locked up tight

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by Dave on 10/12/15 at 13:06:21

And did you confirm the drive gear for the oil pump is together and meshed properly....and that the little pin in the shaft did not fall out?

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by rockabilly on 10/12/15 at 13:26:11

Yep everything sitting where it should (well apparently something isn't!!) but all teeth are cleanly meshed where they should be and the clutch basket is sitting cleanly on the splines

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/15 at 13:36:20

Loosen it up, smack it around, tighten back up.
cross fingers.

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by rockabilly on 10/12/15 at 13:42:32

Think that's the thing to try............ 2lb or 5lb hammer???! :)

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/15 at 13:48:30

no more than a plastic mallet.
think I just used me hands.

Title: Re: Clutch issues
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/12/15 at 15:41:08

Don't be shocked if the throw out breaks again. They have been known to break with a stock clutch. When I did the cam I shimmed the springs with one, normal sized washer under each spring. Mine broke a year or so later. They are made of sintered metal, the OSB wood equivalent. Just heated, pressed powder.
verb
past tense: sintered; past participle: sintered
make (a powdered material) coalesce into a solid or porous mass by heating it (and usually also compressing it) without liquefaction.

If I intended to keep the bike, I would've looked into having one machined. When it goes, if you're halfway through a gear change, it's liable to break the cam chain guide where the tensioner mounts.
Mine did. I wasn't riding it, so, exactly what happened, I don't know, because the guy who was riding it lacks sufficient mechanical understanding to really explain, and, if he told me the sky is blue, I'd hafta go look, just to be sure. If you get my drift.