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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last wee /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1443224055 Message started by jjthejetplane on 09/25/15 at 16:34:15 |
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Title: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last wee Post by jjthejetplane on 09/25/15 at 16:34:15 Hi all, New to the board but long time reader. I have a 2002 suzuki savage that i pirxhased from thw 2nd owner last yr. When i pirchased the bike he provided service records for battery and carb cleaning but i noticed the ever present backfiring. I drove it for a wk and gave it to a "backyard mechanic" who is a family member and has a full garage setup with several local patrons to check out a stalling issue. The second day i had it it stalled in idle. I was told a quick carb cleaning should get me right. It didnt. He took the carb apart and told me that one of the pieces had been stripped. I bought a carburetor from ssalvage and had it put on. I left for work for a few months and came back to a bike that would not turn over. He then informed me that it probably needed a cleaning which it promptly recieved, still no go. He then suggested that it was the battery. I replaced it even knowing that the previous owner had just purchased one. This is abput 6 mos in to my owning it at this point and only having ridden it for a wk. The battery got it going for a single 20 min ride. When i arrived the next morning to take it home, the bike revved but would not start until eventually my brand new battery died. This took less than two mins as i was hesitant to keep trting it because i knew it would drain the battery. I took the battery to have it tested. It was completely dead. When i asked about the battery the mechanic told me he thought he'd overcharged it before putting it on. He later denied this was the reason it was ddead. Mind you this was a new sealed battery from motorcycle superstore. When charged it would only charge to 93%. I put the battery back on and then was told that i had fouled the spark plug attempting to start it and now THAT was the reason it wouldnt run. I replaced the spark plug. This was last wk. It has now been over a year that he has had my bike. When qe replaced the spark plug he told me my compression was 180psi and later text messaged me aaking for the valve clearancea per thw owner's manual which i promptly provided. I have been walking for a yr and this is my only transportation. I have been more than willing to follow his suggestion and pay for whatever parts needed. Ive been waiting for two months not working for my bike and this wk gave him a deadline bc a yr is ridiculous. He informed me that i had good compression and a spark so he couldnt understand why it was not pulling my gas to thw engine. I suggested the. Raptor petcock. Oh yeah, this is my second savage so i am pretty familiar with its known issues. Been there before. I bought the petcock and have been waiting all wk for the next excuse for why its not running but HOPING against all hope that it was fixed. He put the petcock on sat, ignored my calls til thurs then sent me a text saying sell it bc my compression is at 72psi.Can someone plz explain how my engine could go from 180psi to 70psi in a wk's time without having been ridden at all?? Really mfing confused how my stalling in idle problem turned into a new carb, batt, spark plug and battery with an additional carb cleaning and the excellent compression i had last wk which isnt tied directly to any of those plummeted in a week to levels that could total my engine???. Something is amiss. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Kris01 on 09/25/15 at 16:50:37 Sounds like you need a new mechanic! This bike is so simple that a monkey with a wrench can work on it. Do the work yourself and save tons of money and gain lots of knowledge. I would go through the bike thoroughly checking air, fuel and spark. Make sure you start with a good battery. Even a marginal battery will cause problems. Can you hear the decomp working? Have you personally checked the valve clearances? I wouldn't trust your, ahem, "mechanic's" work. Check it yourself. Check for flow through the petcock. Pull the carb and make sure it's assembled and tuned correctly. What size jets are you running? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by oldNslow on 09/25/15 at 17:01:19 Quote:
I'm guessing your "mechanic" asked you for the valve specs so he could check/adjust the valves. He screwed it up. The sudden low compression indicates that at least one valve is not closing. What's amiss is your "mechanic" If you can't do the work yourself you need to find someone who knows what he's doing. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/25/15 at 17:44:37 As I was reading and got to Sat for a coupla months, won't turn over Mechanic said Probably needs a good cleaning. Wrong answer. What would ever make anyone think that? If you parked a car for two months and wouldn't start, what would you think? Don't buy anything or pay anyone. In fact, I wouldn't let that guy work on it for free. A stripped bolt meant replace the carb? What did that set you back? Were you there? See what happened? If you are smart enough to ride and not get crushed by an idiot, you're smart enough to keep the bike running. Tools cost less than labor and you'll have them,, learning to wrench will help you in life. If you're young, all the better. You need a maintenance manual. Voltmeter, metric end wrenches, just, tools.. Lots to read here, and, telling us what's wrong will get you explanations that will help. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 09/25/15 at 19:06:01 You are a "long time reader"? A previous Savage owner? And yet, you have a stall at idle issue and you bring your bike to a MECHANIC? How is that possible? Your mechanic is broken, that is what is wrong with your bike. Family member or not, genius mechanic or not, he is obviously not familiar enough with this bike ( or even big singles in general) to help you. In fact, I'd bet 3 weeks pay that he caused 80% of your "surprise" issues. Your mechanic needs to read up here perhaps. If you had bought a raptor when the stalling first started, you'd be driving right now instead of walking. Sorry to hear about your plight....I know how much it sucks, but you either need to do this work yourself (perhaps he would lend you his tools and lift) or sell it and by a scooter. I am finding out QUICK that this is NOT the ideal bike for an owner that doesnt like wrenches. I have even cursed her a few times ( I ALWAYS apologize afterward though). She is a fickle mistress for sure. I HATE when guys come on here with their 2000 or 1997 model Savages and swear it runs great...smooth and easy, no jerking or vibrating or burping....and always has! My bike has never driven like that. Perhaps "runs great" is in the eyes of the beholder :D |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/25/15 at 19:34:08 I agree, and implied, the mechanic caused most of the problems. Once you get the bike sorted out, it gets reasonably reliable, but take a bike that's sat, it's just gonna cause some pain. Once you get it sorted, it's easy. The only really off the wall problem is the clutch throw out paddle snapping.. And, IMO, kinda gotta look inside the clutch , just to see, unless ya get lucky and it's just time for the Versy. And that mechanic really needs to sign in here.. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/26/15 at 05:59:44 Hello and thanks for the responses. Will be going to the garage today. Not sure of the jets size honestly. I'm certain my issues were brought on by guesswork. I replaced my petcock on my last bike and intially suggested it for this one but as i have 0 exp fixing bikes, i trusted his "expert" opinion esp after he showed me what was "wrong". The savage has known issues, i always check those first. I never thought it was my carb and resisted until i was certain i wouldnt get a running bike back. I am positive it has not been the engine. I've spent over 600 in parts. I have tried in vain to get him on the site as this is my constant reference guide when talking with him. He has obviously refused, not tech savvy. I'm taking the bike into a shop to get a prognosis before i order anything more. He already listed off six diff pieces for the head assembly. My sanity can't handle more guesswork. I have ordered the clymers and will be attempting to bring her back myself once i know for certain what needs to be fixed. This is the last time i ever want to have someone else touch my bike. And yes, i agree there is no such thing as a perfect oem savage but i know you guys understand the love once youve gotten acquainted with this beauty. I will provide updates as soon I hear back. Thanks again. Still curious as to how my compression dropped? He's not being forthcoming and I am positive it's not coincidental. Could his tinkering with the valves have caused that dramatic drop and if so, does that guarantee a blown head? Could i save it? Read that below 90psi its a blown head gasket but if he caused it? Does that mean i now have permanent damage to undo ie ripping out my head?i read the "low compression thoughts?" post and several more but they all discuss fixing the issue. I'm kind of trying to retrace his steps to assess what has been done and what can be... I know I'll know the issue for sure within the next 48. Id still like to know how i got there. Like the dead brand new sealed battery that magically died but had nothing to do with the unneccessary charging that common sense says damages the cells. >:( *the heaviest sigh of my life* Don't beat me over the head too badly. Trust me, i know i made a mistake. Ive cried, cursed and contemplated kicking her over but we all see where i am-here, still in love. Bikelife. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Steve H on 09/26/15 at 06:22:50 I would check the valve clearances. Probably one is tight and that valve is not closing all the way. If it doesn't close all the way, the compression will go out the valve instead of being held in the cylinder. When you get the valves right, the compression will go right back up. I don't think anyone has ever blown a head gasket on one of these bikes. Your biggest problem is your 'mechanic'. Get that bike away from him before he really does some damage that can't be easily fixed. These days, if I have a problem with a bike that is strange or I don't know how to fix, I check the forums for that particular bike. You usually find some very knowledgeable people, in our case, some downright experts on the forums. If you go through the troubleshooting, do what they say how they say to do it, you'll be riding again soon. The battery probably died from non-use sitting for 6 or more months with no boost charge or anything will kill a flooded battery. Fire your mechanic and get your bike back while it is still repairable. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by digitaltrucker on 09/26/15 at 06:55:45 Wow, sorry to hear about your troubles....I thank my lucky stars not only for this site but the fact that my local dealership has actual knowledgable people in it's service dep't. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/15 at 07:04:38 First don't know why he is not coming in here, don't care, but you need to get your bike away from him. He may be well meaning, but he's killing you. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/15 at 07:20:40 Recently, I've seen compression tests, initially, good, later, uhh Ohh, it dropped. Now, is that from people just yanking a plug and crap falling in? Scored cylinder,, |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by oldNslow on 09/26/15 at 07:23:12 [quote]Could his tinkering with the valves have caused that dramatic drop and if so, does that guarantee a blown head? Could i save it? [/quote] Yes, No,the head (and head gasket) are most likely fine. Unless your "mechanic actually managed to break something while he was screwing around in there.Yes you can save it. Just screwing up the valve adjustment isn't likely to damage anything, especially since the engine won't start. You need to straighten that out first though. Read this: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1325991352 |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by thumperclone on 09/26/15 at 09:33:43 engine must be fully warmed up for an accurate compression reading |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Serowbot on 09/26/15 at 09:38:14 6B60786464736E72010 wrote:
It's not a blown head... Valves or decomp out of wack could drop the reading to nuttin',... but, my bet is he gaswashed the cylinder... and lost the oil seal on the rings... A little squirt of oil in the sparkplug hole and a few cranks will bring it back... Hopefully... |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by old_rider on 09/26/15 at 09:50:23 First thing.... family member....with tools.... Second thing... calls you for information... Third thing... He has the bike for A YEAR??? You knew to come here.... he should have done the same, the internet is FULL of information, if he is too lazy to look, he ain't worth squat as a mechanic. Sounds like he did not check the piston to make sure the bike was "top dead center", so his valve adjustment made things worse. The TDC mark is only a gage to tell you when it is there... you have to visually make sure the piston is actually at the top AND the mark is on. Politely ask for the motorcycle back, hopefully he has all the pieces. Then ask around for a mechanic that can work on savages/s40's, read here, get to know the bike, talk to a few mechanics about your woes....until one mentions this site, or the known problems an how they are fixed. If he is charging you for repairs.... I would disown him.... brother, brother-in-law...half brother... would not matter... if he is taking advantage of you for a YEAR.... he really should not be a family member. Short of tearing this thing down and rebuilding it, NOTHING should take longer than two months (even if other projects are in progress). If you had read here, and hit the tech section, YOU could have had the bike on the road in two months. It is obvious you didn't start reading this forum until AFTER your "relative" was trying to fix your "backfire". Because if you had been reading here you would have known the savage backfires normally, and you would have known the fix and be riding it now. I'm only being a little "stiff" on you because you are letting a family member make you suffer and walk (for a YEAR) when you could have been riding. Hopefully when you get the bike back you can look it over, take a few pictures, and post them here so folks here can help you figure out what the.....sigh.... I hate to call him this... "mechanic" did to your transportation. It sounds like you are either 1. afraid to work on it because you are not too mechanically inclined. or 2. don't want to bother with it and will just throw money at it to get it fixed. Don't be afraid to do it yourself.... ask around here, there are folks here that don't even know the name of some parts that are fixing problems and riding! And some of them live in apartments with no garage! Fill in your profile about the area you live in and maybe one of the folks from here could help you figure it out! I can only hope you do not get discouraged, and take some of the advice we are giving you to heart. I am not trying to be hurtful, just trying to get you motivated to fix your savage and get you riding so your feet will thank you! :) |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/26/15 at 11:26:37 I appreciate the advice and replies. I knew about the backfiring and didnt consider it an issue worth immediate work. The stalling scared me and I had to leave for school. I left it. I know the basics about the bike but yes, i have been too afraid to work on it myself. It is my most prized possession. I didnt want to mess it up. Irony. The "mechanic" has 30yrs experience but has never seen nor touched a big single. I spent the yr working and saving for all of the parts. I finally created an account out of exasperation but have been reading since my first savage purchase in 2010. I will get back with updates. Having it moved to a shop, awaiting prognosis. I will buy tools and attempt it myself bc there is no way i can do a worse job especially since i actually care what happens to it. Please be patient with me on the updates. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 09/26/15 at 11:41:28 You will find all of the help here that you could possibly need...of that, I am certain. As for patience, I apologize if my (or anyone else's) comment seemed to show a lack of patience or understanding. Most of us have been where you are to one degree or another. Together, we WILL get you back up and running :) Some of us, myself included, can get frustrated at times. Just be sure not to disregard good advice just because it may have been delivered in what you perceive to be a harsh tone. I have made that mistake and learned from it. Information has no personality....just remember that! |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/15 at 11:55:45 I wish you'd slow down. Don't pay for any more help. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Steve H on 09/26/15 at 13:40:35 The engine is an old design and is easy to work on. It's more like something from the 60's or 70's in the way it's made. It's time proven and has very little trouble or problems and can't be pretty easily fixed. All the weak points are well known and there are fixes for them all. The guys on here can talk you through anything. Just give them the information they ask for and follow their instructions completely. Unless you are lucky enough to find someone that knows big singles, you are probably better off working on it yourself. Give us an update when you can. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/15 at 15:09:23 Haul that thing into a shop after some hamfisted alleged mechanic manhandled created problems to find and fix and that six hundred dollars you've spent will possibly double. Unless you know enough to get them to not see you as an open wallet, you're liable to get screwed. And just because it's a dealership mechanic, meaningless. We've seen at least two engines destroyed by Suzuki mechanics installing the oil filter backwards. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/27/15 at 17:30:17 Update: Picked the bike up and brought it home. I did a once over and noticed a few things immediately... The raptor petcock is on but there are three hoses stivking out of my carb with the larger gray(vacuum hose) being connected to the petcock; none of the bolts on the engine have been touched in a very long time (dust and rust) so valve aadjustment was immediately ruled out as culprit, started panicking about having lost my oil seal rings (and legit crying, i digress); the battery was dead. I will post pics tmrw when I have better light. So, i purchased a battery and sprayed some carb cleaner down by the air filter to test my compression-didn't trust myself with oil and my spark plug..but voila! My baby started with a lottle encouragement from the choke and throttle. Alas, i have compression. She started but didn't run. Unfortunately, I couldn't download the manual on manualmadness.com so was using basic know how and thr boatd for reference. I started thinking again about the petcock and started inspecting the wires. I couldn't find very good pics to help with this part but will try again tmrw bc thinking he installed it wrong. Almost certain since he hasn't looked at all into using the raptor petcock as a replacement. I am going to remove it and reinstall it tmrw and if that does not work i am going to attempt a carb cleaning tmrw. I am hopeful. Got more accomplished today with the help of some curious neighbors than has been done in a year. Thank you guts for all the advice!! I will post pics tmrw. Idk what size jets i have still. I had a mikuni carb on and will have to look closer at the newer, if that helps. My mikuni carb looks like nada is wrong with it to my untrained eeye but what do i know? Thanks again. Keep the constructive criticism coming. I want to be able to fix her myself. ;) |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/27/15 at 18:54:37 You'll win, but please, slow down. You've dumped six hundred in pArts, it still need a battery?I'd recommend that, rather than dash in and report what you've done, ask, then do. If you woulda come and asked, odds are you'd be riding with over four hundred in your pocket. What parts did your mechanic decide you needed. ? Good that visual inspection shows he didn't go in. It's good you get that and real good he didn't get in there. Now, I have to ask. What DID he do? Did he lie to you? What did he say he did? Raptor doesn't have vacuum ports to poke hoses on it. Just gas in, gas out. Carb has a vac tube, supposed to go to the petcock. Now, without the vacuum petcock, it needs capped. A short piece of fuel line, golf tee, small dowel, be creative. Two vent lines go nowhere, just come out of the carb. See my post, looking for a mAnual, Desert Rat posted a link my Kindle loaded in seconds. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/27/15 at 19:02:57 I'd get the old carb back. Surely it's not gone. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 09/27/15 at 20:07:36 what jog said... slow down. we can help. let us know what info you need and we'll get it for you. carb hoses... http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CarbLeftweb.jpg http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CarbRightweb.jpg |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 09/27/15 at 20:11:58 and lets leave the criticism of the last mechanic to thumper. you'll have to let go by his shop and let out a whooping belch of power. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/27/15 at 21:23:51 you're right. I just get ticked when someone sticks someone and has them thinking the bike stinks.. Great idea, roll in, turn around, lay rubber... |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 09/28/15 at 04:54:39 You need to take the motorcycle to someone that is familiar with this bike and can sort it out....and "undo" what your family mechanic has done. Unfortunately most bike shops just aren't keen on working on the Savage and give it to their newest mechanics to "learn on". As others have indicated, you should post your location so that we either can find a local member to help....or the local member can refer you to a competent mechanic in your area. At this point there is just too much been "done" for you to make this a learning project for you. It would be far better for an experienced mechanic to get it running properly again....then you can learn how to maintain it as you go along and learn on the simple things. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/28/15 at 05:34:44 Hello again, Wanted to give a quick reply. He hasn't neen forthcoming when issues have popped up, giving me a simple "idk" when I asked how the compression could've dropped. What he told me he's done is as gollows: Cleaned the original carb, took it apart, notice stripped piece Installed Carb from salvage yard Tested bike Cleaned New Carb Inspected tank, advised replacement battery Charged Battery,Installed Battery Tested compressiom, was at apprx 180psi, advised replacement spark plug Installed spark plug ( i suggested the petcock initially and then ordered it in spite of his advice after the compression test, also had battery tested and it was damaged) Installed Petcock Text messaged 5 days later that compression was at apprx 72 psi, advised replacing entire head gasket assembly or selling bike Everything else has been me retracing his steps. Assumed the batt was damage due to overcharging bc it aas a sealed battery and did not need a ccharge. I was not present for any work besides the compression test. I can't verify anything but what I can see. I was in the process of having it moved to the shop but aas advised to give it the old Harvard try. I am waiting to hear back from the closest mechanic I know which is in Callao, Va. Updated my profile. I'm in Tappahannock, Va. Stranded. Miami, Fl resident. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/28/15 at 06:48:21 @justin_o_guy2 Can you post a link? Can't find the post via the search option or Deserr Rat in the members and it's not in your last 25 posts. I bought and put on a vaccuum hose cap from autozone but it's still not turning over. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/28/15 at 06:54:49 Left side mikuni replacement carb with other hose |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/28/15 at 07:05:28 I have three hoses sticking out of my carb. Studied the pic provided carefully. Cannot figure out what that hose is, the shorter. It's not either of the bowl vent hoses and not the vaccuum hose that feeds into the petcock. Is there a chance it's the wrong carburetor? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/28/15 at 07:12:30 This is the hos sticking out of the upper right side of the carb just below the bowl vent hose and to the left of the long gray vaccuum hose. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 09/28/15 at 07:19:16 That is a carb from a California bike withe the evaporative canister on the swing arm. Just plug that hose....you don't need it unless you also have the canister stuff. From the photograph you posted......the idle fuel mixture plug is still in place and has not been pulled out. I don't believe you can do a good job of cleaning a carb without taking that out and removing the mixture screw. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 09/28/15 at 07:43:46 5C676A7D6C607B7D666E637C0F0 wrote:
Be careful with that plug and follow the instructions in the tech section to pull it. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1221818822/0#0 |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/28/15 at 11:21:24 And it's delicate. Gently close it, fingertips, count and make note of the turns. That way you can get it back to where it is when you go back in. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/29/15 at 11:25:16 Hello, afternoon, I removed the plug last night. Should i remove the screw completely? Am i prepping to remove the carb and do a cleaning? The instructions say to give it a turn coynter clockwise. Don't want to act prematurely. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 09/29/15 at 11:43:53 Gently turn the screw in clockwise and count the number of complete turns. Since it has never been messed with previously....my guess is that it will be 3 turns. There is never any reason to turn the screw more than 3 turns from seated....as the small hole is completely open after 3 turns, and any more turns on the screw will not increase the fuel flow. Then you can remove the screw and blow or flush the hole with whatever carb cleaner you are going to use. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 09/29/15 at 11:47:48 Gently turn it CW till it stops, count the number of turn and any increment thereof. How many? Then back it out 1 and a half turns. This is the standard starting point. Now lets confirm you capped the vac port and the EPA cannister port? I'd give it a spritz of starting fluid and give her a go. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/29/15 at 14:05:55 Having some difficulty turning this screw with my flathead. It's jumped the bit twice and I'm worried about stripping it. Ahould i be using something else? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 09/29/15 at 14:17:10 Unfortunately...that is not surprising. The screw and carb body can get corroded and the screw is very tight. Penetrating oil may help.......there is not guarantee. You will not be the first one to have this problem. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1350749896/0 |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 09/29/15 at 15:11:50 She said he cleaned the carb w/out removing this, so there may be some cleaner dried in there. try some penetrating oil. push in the screwdriver pretty hard to keep it from slipping. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/15 at 19:25:05 Not evey screwdriver fits, be sure the tip fits into the slot. The slot is small, and I've been known to file a driver tip, eliminating any wedge shape. It's not a bad plan to file it so it's tapered the opposite way, with the edges on the Unscrewing contact sides of the screwdriver shaped to lock in. I discovered that working on guns. Some of those screws have very shallow slots. Think about how you'd design a tool to Not slip out of the screw. And you're very correct to not keep at it when the screwdriver slips. Penetrating oil, wait.. And again.. A 50/50 mix of acetone and transmission fluid is really good. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by KennyG on 09/29/15 at 19:30:45 Justin, I have a complete set of Brownell's screw drivers left over from building guns. The drivers are really great on slotted screws. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/15 at 20:26:38 Good tools matter, Even Snap on screwdrivers wear out. Every time it slips, it's injured. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/30/15 at 08:31:00 Hello, I pulled my old carb out of the box to be sure i have a backup screw and then attempted to remove said screw. There was a huge disparity between the ease with which I turned the old one and the sweat I busted attenpting not to strip the newer. So, I'm pretty certain I'll need the penetrating oil. I don't want to drill it out if I don't have to. Thanks for all the help. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/30/15 at 11:27:39 Mix up the oil. put that side up, fill up to the shoulder. Let it soak. No way risking needing to drill is worth it. Patience.. A screwdriver, in the slot, and a few light quick taps every so often, shake it up, Not pounding it, it's brass and fine threads, not even a hammer, a small driver and an end wrench.. 9/16ths ish. Don't get harsh, induce vibration, while the penetrating oil is in it. Sometimes turning a stuck screw both ways helps. A bit of heat, doesn't require a torch, a soldering iron, even a blow dryer, anything to get those dissimilar metals to shift relative to one another. A squirt bottle with water to cool it, quickly, can cause crud to be crushed and release. Heat and cool may be needed more than one time. The time spent Not needing to drill is well worth it. A proper fit in the screw is crucial. Just because a screwdriver goes in doesn't make it a good fit. Does it go to the bottom of the slot? You've got a screw. Get the one from the other carb. Put the screwdriver in, hold it up to the light and see how well it fits. If it's tapered, it wants to Cam out. Shape the tip to do the job. Any brass displaced by the slippage of the screwdriver can gently be put back in place using a pin punch and a very careful eye and hand. I'm speaking from experience, not just pulling stuff out of my hat. Lowe's sell a butane power soldering pencil for about ten bucks. Removing the soldering tip exposes a small but intense , blue, pointed, flame. Remember, that's aluminium. Heat is like Brylcream. A little dab'l do ya,, And, you'll have a portable, no cord required, soldering tool. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/30/15 at 15:10:56 I was able to make it two full turns with a heavy helping of wd40 and a lot of patience but I'm afraid the head is too stripped to continue. I turned it back half a turn as i figured it would equal the 1.5 setting i should be at now but I haven't done anything further. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/30/15 at 15:21:00 Did you take the other screw and test the screwdriver profile? WD40? Naaah, not where failure carries such consequences.. http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t7128-penetrating-oil-comparison-test As soon as you figure out that the collective knowledge on this board is something you can use to win with, you'll be ahead. I have a shelf dedicated to lubricants, and no WD40 even in my shop. It's good for Water Displacement, and it's the fortieth formulation the guy tried, but it's not the best penetrating oil. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by old_rider on 09/30/15 at 16:06:14 JJ.... suggestion... take a look at the " member map" and see if any of the guru's are near by. Some of these fella's won't mind helping and a few of them can strip down the bike with thier eyes closed (ok in the dark) on a desert highway with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. Ok...it really wasn't dark, but versy stripped off the kill switch/ throttle side of a bike on our desert trip and put it back together making it work like new... ok, close enough to new :) In the middle of nowhere texas, with just a small tool kit :) Point is... if you can find someone near that can help go for it... or like Dave says, ask around for a thumper mechanic. It can get frustrating listening to 15 people trying to talk you through everything you find, but sometimes two sets of eyes helps. And, Pictures do help.... thanks for posting them, now I know what a california carb looks like! |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/30/15 at 16:51:07 I tested the screw when i intially put the screwdriver in the bit to see if i could turn it. I also swapped it out for one with a better grip. The size is 1/4 which is also what I'd found when searching for a tools list online. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/30/15 at 17:00:44 [ch128533] All i had was wd40. Newb mistake. Couldn't wait for a ride to autozone and muxh too far to walk. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 09/30/15 at 17:22:06 How do I find the members map? And also, my first post was vague. I meant, i tested the screwdriver on the screw in the older carb to be sure of it's size. I later switched it out for one of the same size but with a better grip. When i pushed down firmly after having let it sit about an hr in wd, it turned easily. I hesitated after the second full turn and went back to read the instructions. When i tried again it only budged slightly but slipped the head again. It wouldn't budge when I tried again and so, i stopped. The screwdriver bit fit but it def wore around the tunnel heading into the screw. Tried to post a pic. I contacted the mechanic in Callao again. My problem has consistently been flakes and people wanting to tinker. I am desperate to get home before the winter chill sets in which is why i'm attempting it myself. I'm a voracious reader and I love my bike. I managed to drill the pilot hole and pull the plug never having used a drill. Have a little faith in me, i have faith in youbguys. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/30/15 at 17:29:16 When you are wrestling with a screw and it's turning, stop, go the other way, work it back and forth. Fast plus friction equals risk of galling. Go easy. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 09/30/15 at 17:35:22 Looks like she is about 40 miles NE of Richmond, VA. Anyone in the area? I dont know squat about carbs or I would let her mail it to me for a quick overhaul....anyone else have any ideas? A young lady who doesnt even have any experience with a hand drill....she may be in over her head here. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/30/15 at 17:45:18 On the kindle, that symbol is so small i never saw it. I had no idea . I also had no idea what a sexist I am. I was all frustrated with That Guy. Now , That Guy is a young lady.. Suddenly, I'm all patient and supporting again. Dang, I didn't Know that about me.. Allrite, JJ, I'm back! Have you given us a rundown on your background? How are you set up? Shop? Tools? Acetone is finger nail polish remover. A teaspoon of it, teaspoon of transmission fluid, power steering fluid ,maybe, This is your only ride? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/01/15 at 08:37:36 Alright, I have a full toolbox, carn cleaner, and a spare carb and petcock. I have hose caps also but that's about it. I have a Lowes, Autozone, and Adv. Auto Parts within driving distance and can purchase or rent anything else. I have access to a full garage w compression tester, torches, etc but it is the garage from which I just removed my bike and I'd prefer not to leave it there again. I also have a drill. Never worked on a bike before, soent a LOT of time in the garage with my last Savage watching and learning the known issues. Used to tinker with my 78 Nova and do some light engineer work on boats (first mate)so I have a basic understanding of engines. Still unable to download the manual from manualmadness and couldn't locate the other thread mentioned. I can move the bike if there is someone nearby that can help but I have been looking for months. The shop Rick's in Callao hasn't called back since last wk. I have nothing but time and am super ready to go. The coming stotm may stall my work efforts a bit. The idle mix screw is sitting at 1.5 turns. Should i turn it 3 full turns or rather 1.5 turn still and then back out 1.5 turn or should i attempt to get ot started now? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/01/15 at 08:38:28 And yes, this is my only means of transportation. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/01/15 at 16:40:00 Maaan, I was just smiling, then I saw Yes, my only transportation. Awwrite, you're gonna be okay.. I'm not sure yet just what you accomplished with the air mix screw. You got it out? Blast the hole? If the carb is off, I'd look at the jets,, you Might be able to do that with it mounted, if the screws have been out. Those aren't#2 Philips, but if you can grind the tip down till the X fills up the screw slots. If you have any fingernail polish remover you can mix it with transmission fluid, or, I dunno, maybe power steering fluid, but, next time in town, IF you can, a quart of acetone and you'll be able to refill the nail polish remover for a year. A Zoom oil container is what I use for the penetrating oil, I keep it fully extended and capped, still some evaporation, but, since it separates, you can see when to add. Okay, rundown what is done, and don't sweat a compression test. Is the vacuum port on the carb plugged? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/01/15 at 16:55:01 The vacuum hose is capped as is the canister hose. I didn't take the idle mix screw out. I can remove the carb and give it a thorough cleaning, if necessary. Might be easier to get that screw out with it off but if the goal is to remove the screw and give it a few shots of carb cleaner, i could prob do that. It was easier to move in the opposite (CCW) direction. I have not touched the screw since yesterday when it got stuck at the 2nd full turn and I turned it back a half turn. This is my 3rd bike. 2nd Savage.I gave up cars when my brakes went out on the Nova. Bikes are cheaper to maintain. Im hoping i can learn enough to keep the Savage going on my own. Really appreciate all the help. I have acetone. I will either bug a neighbor or make an autozone run tmrw for the transmission fluid. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/01/15 at 17:00:07 The carb is on, I'd try to fire it up. You're up to speed on the battery, I expect. Oil is good,, kick the tires, throw a leg over,stand it up.. See what happens.. Turn the gas on.. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 10/02/15 at 03:55:45 The idle mixture screws can be very hard to remove....and there is very little slot in the brass head to get a good grip with a screwdriver. Originally these screws are easy to remove - but the aluminum corrodes and the tiny threads get distorted, and it can be a real problem to get the screw out with that tiny soft brass slot. Often you have to drill the darn thing, use an easy out, then clean up the threads with a tap, then install a new screw (and O-ring while you are at it). I just drilled out a plug and removed the screw from a 2002 bike last night and it came out real easy....the one from the theft recovery bike was much harder. If you want to mail me that spare carb.....I can take it apart for you and see if there is anything wrong with it. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/02/15 at 10:33:18 I'm curious about what exactly is busted that caused the need for a replacement carb. I really want to applaud this young ladys grit. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 10/02/15 at 11:48:06 405F595E43447545754D5F53182A0 wrote:
I'm with Justin on this one. I KNOW I have some carb issues/rough running and will have to take it off the bike and rebuild/clean/jet it over the winter...but I am dreading it. Kudos to jj for diving in and doing it! |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/02/15 at 12:27:36 Thanks. Haven't been able to work on the bike today bc of all the rain but I think I can answer your question @justin_o_guy2. When he showed me the piece it looked like a screw and he told me it was stripped. I almost thought it was the floater needle on first glance. When we went to price it online the piece itself was about 200 and was listed very near the top. I went back to the carb assembly on bikebanditz and I'm pretty sure it was part of the diaphragm assembly, if that helps. I can mail you the part but I'll wait to see how the current one runs and if I'll need to take it off for a cleaning. I will prob swap out the idle mix screws. Thanks for the help and encouragement. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by HondaLavis on 10/02/15 at 13:02:47 6F647C6060776A76050 wrote:
Took me a moment to decipher that. The first couple of times I read it, I was thinking about the diaphragm for the throttle enrichment valve. That didn't make sense, though. I had to look at a parts fiche to realize what screws you're talking about. They are the teeny tiny phillips ones at the bottom of the slide assembly. So your mechanic didn't spray any penetrating oil and stripped the screws, then figured it was easier to have you buy a whole other carb. But let's think positive. We can work with that! With a proper easy out (I prefer pro-grabit) you can burnish and remove the stripped screws by hand. It would, however, require an extended T-handle (like what would be used to tap threads) to reach down the hole. I can't think of a way you would do that with a drill. This is what I'm thinking of: http://assets.rockler.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/720x720/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/5/35498-01-1000.jpg http://www.irwin.com/uploads/products/large/t-handle-ratcheting-tap-wrenches-940.jpg To be honest, I don't think removing that plate for the purpose of cleaning would have made much difference. If it were my bike, I would clean the carburetor that is off of the bike as thoroughly as possible. Then put that one on and see if it runs. That plate shouldn't be a big deal unless you get into tuning and adjusting needle height. On another topic: So the bike has been sitting for over a year, and we're worried about a gaswashed cylinder... What does the oil look like? Can you stand the bike up and check the level? No need to jump right into changing it, but I thought it was worth a peek. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/15 at 15:07:02 The Harbor Freight handheld impact came with a long, skinny Philips that did those screws Down There,, IF he Didn't get either one out, great. I don't think it's a big deal. That carb has jets it ran on, an idle air screw that's Not Screwed. I'd clean it up, blow through every little hole you can see. Some carb cleaners are hard on rubber, protect the diaphragm. IF he messed up and got one out, stripped the other, so what? You have two carbs. Use the body that has the healthy air mix screw and proven, at least good enough to run, jets. Used the slide and diaphragm from the other one, if you need to and can. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by old_rider on 10/04/15 at 18:09:45 Air, fire, fluid.... make sure your bike is getting all three... Sometimes amounts don't matter with a single. If your air cleaner is good...no worries If your carb is getting gas...no worries If your bike turns over...no worries Now that said.. Test your carb for flow... pull the line going in... turn the petc0ck... fuel going to carb? good Put a small drain hose on the bottom of your carb "the very bottom!" With the petc0ck in the on position, loosen the carb bowl screw... got gas? good And of course... if you turn the key and it, "the starter" turns over.. that's good, however, you might have to test the voltage on your battery as you turn it over, to insure that you have enough start voltage to fire off the gas. Now if it doesn't start or "chug" like it wants to start, you can pull the "fuel enrichment handle" or "choke" (on this bike it is not a real choke as it doesn't move a butterfly valve to cut off air) If it still does not start after about three tries, stop.... (about 10-15 seconds each) Tap your float bowl with a screw driver handle pretty soundly (float could be stuck) try again If it does not start after about five tries (total, twice after you whack the bowl).... I would pull the float bowl and see if your float needle is stuck. Some would say before pulling the bowl to squirt some start fluid into your carb intake... if you want, do that.. and if it chugs a couple of seconds.. good.. it proves that it will run (but since it ran before.. it should) Keep that air/fuel mix screw at 1.5 turns, it will run like that... you just want to get this thing started and chugging. One last thing... sounds like you are getting the hang of ready and trying to fix your baby.... GOOD... It is a single.. single everything.... you can eliminate things easily... I personally think the carb change was a bad thing... can you "rebuild" the old one? buy a kit and clean it up, if it looks clean.. it probably wasn't the problem, pull the jets, spray a lot of cleaner.. put it back together and back on the bike... with the air/fuel mix screw 1.5 out..... LOL, I wish I was closer.... I like a puzzle... and i'm kind of a mizer... so I fix it with what I got. The above is what I would do... even if I had "known" variables.... start back at square one yourself... then you KNOW... it has been covered. Good luck, should you accept this mission, you will save your world... this message will not self distruct in five seconds...but man it would be kewl if it did! :D ::) 8-) |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/15 at 21:20:47 213E383F22251424142C3E32794B0 wrote:
You have two carbs,, you can win. Read my post. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 07:31:26 Hello again, There is finally a break in the rain so I am going to attempt to get her started. I will report bk in a bit on oil levels, float bowl, etc. I did a lot of digging through the "archives" over the rainy weekend and found some helpful carb cleaning posts. I was unable to procure transmission fluid due to lack of visible neighbors but i did pick up some pb blaster( i know it's not highly recommended but figured it'd due for the time being) and some starting fluid spray. I have gumout carb cleaner and assortment of tools, power cordless screwdriver w bits, needle nose pliers, and marine oil pads to catch any mess. Am i missing anything? Also, I have awesome pics from the forum posts but does anyone have a link to or pics of the Clymer's for my carb? Please and thanks. :) |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/05/15 at 07:55:23 4348504C4C5B465A290 wrote:
Carb specs are in the tech section index (link below) scroll down to fuel intake then click on carb specs |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 08:59:48 Checked the oil. It is black and in the lower range but looks fine. Just tried to start the bike at 1.5 turns out with the hoses capped, choke out. It made a sick sound, sputtering like a car. I shut if off completely. Turned it back on, tested my horn and lights. Horn is strong, blinkers ok. Tried her again, sputtered and then clicking. Wtf |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 09:12:31 Oil. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/05/15 at 10:20:36 So in the year that he's had it, he has not changed the oil once. >:( clicking usually happens when the battery is low, charge it. Also can happen if the starter stalls which can happen if the decomp solenoid is out of adjustment. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 11:14:26 Nope. No oil change. I will do that next. I am having issue disconnecting the wiring under the gas tank. It was in the position that it's in now when i went to pull it off (not completely seated). There are marks just inside the box like it was pried open. Would a short here cause an issue? Figured the batt was low bc I'm familiar w the clicking but the horn stayed strong. My ques is is there a reason why my batteries keep dying? Will post furtger pics but def had a wiring issues on the right side terminal. Had to cut the wire and wrap it around to get a charge. I noticed on my first visit to the garage that the wiring was frayed and guessed correctly that it would prob be done for the next time i saw it. I ussd the battery terminal repair cutters (not a copyrighted name) to repair it. I'm hoping this is not the issue. I will see if i can find a truck and haul it over to autozone to have everything tested. Also, noticed the solenoid wasn't covered at all and the o ring around my speedo cable is a bit torn. Thanks for the help @verslagen and @justin and everyone else. I really appreciate it |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 11:16:33 Wiring connect |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 10/05/15 at 11:20:32 That square box that is dangling loose....is the flasher unit of the turn signals. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 11:27:22 The white box? The piece connecting my tank to my frame is not budging. It is cracked along the casing so i am assuming something was wedged in there for leverage. I cannot get it to budge even a little and it is not completely seated within the box. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 11:30:41 Pliers!!! Victory. ;D |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 11:38:22 Throttle cable clip? Am i tripping or is there nothing there to remove? Should i be able to pull it up and out or should i be removing the piece just below the choke? Where my fibgers are located in the pic |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/05/15 at 11:49:14 I usually disconnect the cable 1st. just rotate the bellcrank and the cable will loop out, grab it and slide the cable end out. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 10/05/15 at 11:52:59 The throttle cable clip is on the bracket, and it holds the cable in place. Most are lost the very first time the cable is removed....and most likely your was gone long before you go the bike. No sweat....they work fine without, and you can't order one anyhow. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 12:03:46 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1429757887/6 Thanks guys. Finding that I'm resorting to habits my mom broke long ago-like asking for help before thoroughly researching things myself. I posted the link, in the case someone comes across this post for future reference. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 15:49:13 Success!! I bent the rubber guards down and wiggled it out bc i wasn't feeling pulling the battery box and the top was not budging. It took a little elbow grease but I pulled the carb. I am soaking the bolts on top w penetrating oil and will clean it up tonight/tmrw. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 15:56:56 Following the carb cleanup post: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1191899985 Will post an update when i have it back on. Please be patient with me until the next step. Thanks again. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Kris01 on 10/05/15 at 16:50:04 I had a "duh!" moment the first time I removed the throttle cable. My clip also disappeared somewhere. I don't trust it not being attached so I bent a paper clip to fit. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/05/15 at 17:40:54 Guys... I just had an epiphany moment that I will prob use as a tale of caution and shame when I am older. So, I decided to pull out the old carb and start taking it apart in prep for tmrw's work. Le sigh. I realized one of the four screws on top is completely stripped. *Sighing even heavier* And then I realized, when he was pointing to the (carb )assembly piece on the diagphram, he was telling me the screw was stripped and to replace the ENTIRE CARBURETOR bc he could not remove it. Ha. Metal can be warped with heat. I, who have never held a drill til this wk know that. I was had! I got got! Catfished, as it were. The end. Now to brainstorm ways to remove this bolt. @justin_o_guy2 This was the piece that was stripped and the reason my carb needed to be replaced. It was prob never cleaned and solely judging by the looks of the bolts on the newer one and how rigid, I'm not sure they've been removed. So, @verslagen1 I may not have had a thorough carb cleaning either. :-/ :-? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by KennyG on 10/05/15 at 17:53:37 Jet, A small quality Vice Grip pliers will work really well to remove the top screws. If you have a soldering iron put the tip on the head of the screw for a minute or two before twisting with the pliers. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/05/15 at 17:54:55 Screw on the top? Head exposed? Grab it with a vice grip and twist it |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Kris01 on 10/05/15 at 19:58:51 Lock it down tight so the Vise Grips don't just slide around the head of the bolt. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Kris01 on 10/05/15 at 20:07:17 Use Allen head screws as replacements (preferably stainless). ;) http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Carb_Screws_Web_001.jpg |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/15 at 20:14:10 With two carbs, surely there are enough parts not messed up to make one. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Steve H on 10/06/15 at 04:07:32 Get a slightly longer screw for the one that is stripped and put a nut on the bottom. If I remember right, the hole goes all the way through. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by HondaLavis on 10/06/15 at 06:08:37 Oh man, I would have never thought it was that simple! That's great, though. Super easy to work with. A GOOD pair of vise grips - off brand Craftsman or harbor freight ones are worthless - Irwin Original vise grips will squeeze that and let you get it off. I, personally, like my Prograbit easyouts, and in a spot that accessible it would be just too easy with your drill. Allen headed screws are the best replacement, as was mentioned. I picked up flat black steel ones from my local Ace Hardware for maybe $3. I should have got stainless; the black ones eventually rust. A drop of blue loctite on there and they'll never back off. All of the screws that came on this carb are notoriously soft. They are all easily stripped if there is any binding. Penetrating oil, a little heat, and the persuasion of some other tools should help you get everything apart. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 10/06/15 at 06:21:09 Not sure if by "stripped out".....we are talking about the JIS slot in the head being goobered up......or if it is the threads in the carb body. Goobered up JIS slot is easy....vice grips will solve the problem in a jiffy. Stripped out threads in the carb body.....a nut on the bottom would fix it as Steve H has indicated. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/06/15 at 06:42:00 66797F7865625363536B79753E0C0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/06/15 at 12:40:54 I have to wait to get a pair of vise grips. Decided to look more into the batt wiring bc I'm considering all issues. The wire on the right side is completely severed from the metal tip. I'd cut it down and wrapped it around the clip and tucked it down in the washer w the screw. Wondering if this could be the culprit as I am on my third battery. The newest purchased last week. I was met with clicking when trying to get her started yesterday but full power on my "dash" . @verslagen1 suggested dead batt or decomp solenoid. I don't have a voltmeter and again have to wait for an autozone run. I am trying to be certain of spark, compression, gas. Right now, stuck on all fronts. Left rear bolt on chrome cover is too far down to jig w my wrench. So, i cannot see, let alone get to my spark plug. I am amazed daily by the feats my mechanic accomplished. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by gizzo on 10/06/15 at 14:02:56 Your mechanic sucks. You're doing a better job than him. Good work. If you have a hacksaw handy you can saw a slot in the head of that pesky screw for a flat blade screwdriver to fit. Don't reuse that screw tho. Otherwise,vise grips like they said. Be really gentle if you mount the carb in a bench vice to hold it still. It's easy to distort a carb body by overtightening in a vice. Then it truly is scrap. Hope the bowl screws give less trouble ! |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 10/06/15 at 14:19:28 Replacement ground wire was mailed this morning. Tracking claims it will be delivered on Saturday. Dave |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/20/15 at 10:09:46 Sorry for the long absence. I had a death in the fam last week. Also, it has taken about a week to remove the many stripped screws. So, on the newer carb: I got stuck trying to remove the screw that holds on the plate holding the valve in place. I got frustrated and gave up before my morale was crushed entirely and went back to work on the older of the two. The older carb: I have removed all but the throttle (due to the stuck lower screw) and the smaller diaphragm set up on the side. My valve is scratched up pretty badly on the side. I couldn't get a clear enough pic to further illustrate. It looks like someone just went at it with the needle nose pliers. I know i have the other carb but I really do not want to have to fight with that screw. Is this an issue that needs to be addressed now? Should i replace it? At this point, everything that I have pulled looks ok. I am intending to clean my older carb, put it on, and try to start it and then, if necessary, disassemble the newer carb. The screw holding the valve plate in place is one reason(took a wk to get it out of the older one) but i also know that i am looking at an uphill battle removing the idle mix screw in the newer of the two. Still, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. Patiently awaiting advice... Jaye |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/15 at 10:29:37 Jaye, got your message. Not feeling well today, Dr appointment this afternoon. As soon as I'm feeling well enough to help, I'll call. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/20/15 at 11:56:11 No worries! Feel better. I took a hammer and a flathead to that stubborn choke screw and am now prepping to soak. Auestion: looking down into my diaphragm from the top of the carb, i can see some gunk around the metal plate inside(holding the needle in place) should i renove that for cleaning? The screws are small and pretty far down. I didn't want to risk stripping them uneccessarily-or could i switch it out for my other carb's diaphragm? Still need an answer on the scarred valve. It's scratched along the upper edges. Probably from someone fighting to remove either it or the plate screw. Thanks, Jaye |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/20/15 at 17:55:11 I hope you guys haven't all abandoned ship in my absence. I have found solutions to most of my carb issues. Now, i have been staring at this pilpt jet screw til my eyes have blurred and I am quite positive it reads 6055. The latter two numbers are kind of marres. I scoured the internets for confirmation that this pilot jet screw size does indeed exist. Is this wayyyy too big for my carb(this is the original carb not the CA model) and the one i was using with the intial stalling in idle issue. Would i need to remove tge spacer completely to get it running properly? (I've been catching up on my reading.) I dont want to start the reassemble process until i am sure. I thought to take the pilot jet screw out of the CA carb but it has absolutely no notch in the head to turn it so I cannot imagine gow i'd extract it. Please help. Jaye |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/20/15 at 18:16:23 unless someone drilled it out to be a 60, I would guess 55. but you got two carbs, what's the other one? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Kris01 on 10/20/15 at 19:02:11 Does your jet look like this? You're not reading the Mikuni logo as "60", are you? http://www.dansmc.com/carbs_mikuni_main_jet11.jpg |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/20/15 at 19:25:46 MY... what big eyes you have grandma. :o |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Kris01 on 10/20/15 at 19:29:05 I wish the jet numbers were that easy to read! |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/20/15 at 21:38:58 The one on the CA model carb does look like that, from what I can see. I couldn't figure how to extract it with that head. The one in my hand has a notched head for a flathead screw driver and i believe is a 55 after seeing the loglogo in the pic. The number is just under the threads beneath the head. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/15 at 21:52:11 Why does it need changed? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/21/15 at 05:49:17 I'm only asking if it needs to be changed out. I was asked in the earlier posts for the sizes. As i was checking it against serowbots carb tuning guide, i realized mine was not the stovk 52.5. I just want to be sure of everything before i reassemble it this morning. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by norm92de on 10/21/15 at 10:13:21 I really sympathize with you when you have a carb and you don't know what "previous owners"? have done or attempted to do. Fortunately you are asking the people who collectively know more than anybody. Keep at it. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/15 at 20:56:23 Well, Knowing the problems you've had, I wonder if you wouldn't be ahead to shoot it clear and just install the carb and get it running. I don't remember much about that. I broke mine off when I tried. I didn't fight it. I ran it. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/22/15 at 05:22:14 I just wanted to share this bc i feel incredibly accomplished, esp considering a week ago the guy at Lowe's didn't want to sell me a drill. My first carb rebuild!! Going to reassemble the bike now. Wish me luck. Will post an update in a few. I couldn't have done it without you guys. Thank you so much! Let's hope she starts. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/22/15 at 12:42:56 It started! She ran smoothly. I'm intears bc I'm so happy. I turned it off and jumped like six feet in the air. I am trying not get too excited as the other guy had it running long enough for me to take a ride last month but right now, my joy is overwhelming. Thank you sooooooo soo much. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/22/15 at 15:27:29 Woo low! Congrats 1st time feels great don't it? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Kris01 on 10/22/15 at 16:44:16 That feeling is exactly the reason why we tell people to not use a "professional" bike mechanic. YOU can learn something and feel a great sense of accomplishment too! Plus, those moron mechanics don't get a chance to screw something up. Congrats! |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Art Webb on 10/22/15 at 20:10:16 HIP HIP, HOORAYYY! |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by gizzo on 10/22/15 at 21:34:58 You Rock, jj! Great work. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/23/15 at 05:50:57 Ok. So, this morning.... It started then slowly died as i got off to move my bike cover. This took all of 8secs. It is attempting to start now but not turning over. The batt is good. No clicking. I am sure i need an oil change but i doubt that is the reason for the hesitation this morning. Any suggestions? I have about a half tank of premium. The spark plug was replaced right before i picked it up but i don't think i have the tools to grab it ahora. I'll prob change the oil tmrw. Having a hard time removing the bolts on the oil filter cover. Le sigh. This bike |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/23/15 at 06:03:57 Also, i gave the float bowl a few sharp taps w the wrench just in case the needle was stuck. I sprayed some starting fluid by my intake yest and today, just a short blast this morning and I tried it choke in and out. The gas is new. I put it in yest. I let my fuel run in the on position for a few mins before starting bc w the raptor petcock there's no prime. I am positice everything went on better than it came off. I triple checked my work. Those are all the pertinents I can think of. The battery was charged last wk at autozone and although i have a frayed wire, it's strong. Ok. That's it. Please help. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 10/23/15 at 06:38:39 7E756D7171667B67140 wrote:
"Not turning over" - to use those words means that when you hit the starter button the starter doesn't engage and rotate the engine. If you mean that the starter turns the engine but it won't "start and run"....then you need to tell it that way. So....you are telling us the starter motor works, the engine rotates - but the engine doesn't start and run? |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/23/15 at 07:05:57 Sorry. It's like it's attempting to run but it's not catching. Like the revving of a car that won't start. Ive always heard it phrased "not turning over". Idk which better fits your description but its that sputtering sound when you turn the key but the car doesn't start. It was running for a few moments this morning but as soon as i got off it quietly died. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/23/15 at 08:05:37 Try the petcock in reserve. When you installed the petcock you did remove the protective sleeve? normally plastic tubing over the filter. shoot some more either, it may be just hard starting. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/23/15 at 10:39:24 Should it look like this- if so, no I did not remove the cover...it still has the white cap. If not, i didn't see any additional plastic covering it... |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/23/15 at 11:36:27 That pic is missing a filter, hope you had 2, one for on and one for reserve. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/23/15 at 12:11:49 Ok. I disassembled again really quickly and didn't see any plastic covering. Did notice that i had dropped the oring for the speedocable into my frame. I thought i had yest. I put it back on, gave her a spritz of starting spray and she started up. This bike is always giving me many heart attacks. Thanks. :) |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by Dave on 10/23/15 at 12:12:19 And that picture is not a real Yamaha petcock....notice the machined brass nipple. The real Yamaha petcock has a brass tube with a single expanded bulge at the end. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/23/15 at 12:14:13 I also ran it on reserve. Took it around the block and came back. Let out a nasty backfire when i shut it off. That can be adjusted with the idle mix screw, right? When i put it back in i turned it all the way in clockwise then back out 3 full turns ccw, and back 1.5 clockwise. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by verslagen1 on 10/23/15 at 13:19:50 4A41594545524F53200 wrote:
Take a look at serowbots carb tuning thread for instructions on adjusting the idle mixture screw. You started with at the max then adjusted it to the min... for the resulting kerpow. maybe the max setting was why you had a hard time starting? in other words, adjust it to idle best, not just a number. |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by jjthejetplane on 10/24/15 at 09:01:09 Hey, Just pulled my oil filter. It is completely saturated but the o rings still look good. I havent adjusted the idle mix yet. Had a hard start this morning and had to spray starting fluid again. None of the auto stores have the kn filter i need. Didnt trust using an offbrand. Should i trash the fil ter? It is not at all red like tge ine in the pic |
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Title: Re: Compression at 72psi after testing at 180 last Post by HondaLavis on 11/04/15 at 01:20:44 There is nothing wrong with using a "HiFlo" filter. They can be had for fairly cheap. Believe it or not, I often found them cheapest at a dealer or local small parts shop. Both had free shipping and competitive prices to online. Sometimes they are cheaper on ebay or Amazon, though. You won't find anything at auto stores like O'Reilly's or AZ. I always inspect my filters during an oil change, and I've never had any problems. The design is very simple and HiFlo's build quality is pretty good. Make sure you install the filter the correct way (!) and that both O-rings are present and accounted for. As for trashing the filter, I personally change my filter at every oil change. Some do every other. With the history of this bike, or at least what we know of it, I would definitely change it. Just my $0.02. Get the filter that suits you. Here is a sale for 3 HiFlo filters at $5.87/ea after shipping. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hiflo-Oil-Filter-Set-Of-3-HF137-/231610265833?fits=Make%3ASuzuki%7CSubmodel%3ALS650&hash=item35ed0c30e9:g:pPYAAOSw37tV83Wg&vxp=mtr And here is the K&N variant for $6.67. http://www.amazon.com/KN-137-Suzuki-High-Performance-Filter/dp/B000E28COK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446629276&sr=8-1&keywords=suzuki+s40+oil+filter Both will do the job. :) |
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