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Message started by Netroxen on 09/21/15 at 09:25:59

Title: Rear Swing Arm
Post by Netroxen on 09/21/15 at 09:25:59

I've had a lot of questions the last few days, completely rebuilding the bike and this is my first project so excuse all the questions...

So I just managed to get the engine out and strip everything down to the frame. I need to remove the rear swing arm so that I can sand blast the frame and re-paint it. However there are two silver covers on the swing arm ends and I don't know how to remove them?

Also, I have another problem. On inspection the swing arm has about 5mm of play when moving it. I suppose I need to replace something, but I'm not sure what? Does it use a bearing or solid bolt? If so can you guys tell me the parts I need to replace the swing arm internals?

My many thanks Savage friends!

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/21/15 at 09:36:22

Those end caps are removed by prying them off. They are just decorative.

If the needle bearing are dry, then that would would cause play to be present. If the bearings are dry, they may no longer be serviceable. If they fall apart as you remove the swingarm bolt you'll need to replace them. Replacement needle bearings are easy to press in.

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by Dave on 09/21/15 at 10:11:08

I believe the needle bearings are in the frame on the Savage...the swing arm doesn't have any bearings in it.

Most likely you can drive the bearings out of the frame if they need to be replaced...the parts list shows they are available.

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by Netroxen on 09/21/15 at 12:16:16

Well I took the arm off to find what I can only describe as the worst condition bearings I've ever seen. A handful of dirt came out, they were bone dry. The actual rollers were pulvurized and pitted and the bearings were rusty. There was so much grit inside them too... Terrible. So looks like I need new bearings, can you guys tell me whether I need Suzuki specific ones or if there's a universal fit. What size? Speechless...

Also can you recommend a good way of gettings these rust buckets out the frame, they're properly jammed in there...

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by Dave on 09/21/15 at 12:32:04

I don't know of anyone that has ever replaced them....so if you don't want to buy Suzuki ones you are just going to have to get yours out and measure them.....you most likely will need the spacer/bushings that go into the bearings as well. Looks to be about $ 62 of parts before you pay the tax or shipping!

http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=432157&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2005&fveh=10118

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/15 at 12:33:59

I can go to the lawn and garden place and get bearings for the mower deck, $20.00 eAch.
I can go to the industrial bearing supply, Six bucks each.
Get the information, OD, ID, depth. Anything left of them, and haul them to the industrial bearing supply near you.
Dial caliper is handy.
And, you can bet they're metric. But measurements are measurements...

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by verslagen1 on 09/21/15 at 12:35:07

Very few have been done, even less with documentation.

44455E5956435F370 wrote:

I've never had to split the head bearings on anything to want to change them.
I do head bearings all the time including 2-3 just this week. I am doing a katana FE swap on a GS, a dirt bike front end on the savage, and so on and last month I swapped the SV's ball type to tapered roller ... usually they seal it tight from the weather, put water proof grease in the bearings @ the factroy (except the new crop of sport bikes with the idiotic ball type beairngs - no grease and crappy crappy crappy bearings) ...
The bearings in there are sealed from weather as long as the dust seals top and bottom are intact. the grease is on them and not going anywhere ... you'd never have to replace them unless you're swapping stems or have had it get damaged in a crash.
Even so, swingarm bearings are much much rarer to swap. I have done 2 so far in my life ... one was on the rat savage 2 years ago, and other was on a GS, and I made a mistake on it and ruined it to start with.
There is a funny story about that though ... I shattered that thing in my driveway and the pins lay on the driveway/yard for months.
then I open this seca 600 carb and find that I have had to destroy a float pin to get it out - better than destroying a float pin post I say ... and find out the GS500 swingarm bearing needles are exactly the right sixe length and dia for the seca float pin.
Anywya, just keep the dust seals intact and they last forever. I have pulled FE's off bikes lying face down in the dirt @ junkyards for years to find semi useable stem bearings. The dust seals work ...
Cool.
Srinath.

7273686F607569010 wrote:

Find a new shop - this is why ...
Wheel bearings are generic - I routinely pay $5-10 for one, neck bearings are called taper bearings and they run 15 or so each, recently swapped out swingarm bearings. Needle bearings - $8+5 shipping and inner race was $8 and 5 shipping. I dropped a GS500 race in there.
To install any of those, I'll charge a 6 pack of decent brew. Removal is 5 beers, installing is the 6th.
The swingarm beairngs are the hardest to get out and hardest to install, neck and wheel bearings just need a good punch and a good hammer.
Pulley if the spline is OK reuse it. The transmission drive stub shaft will more than likely be fine. Its hardended steel.
Oil seals are also generic items, and dont cost more than $2-5.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by Netroxen on 09/21/15 at 14:12:50

Well unfortunately it seems the previous owner of my Savage was a little careless, that or whoever serviced the bike was outright nuts. The shims were missing, it simply had the metal covers on and the little cap. I suppose that'd explain the gargantuan pile of crud that came out...

Looking online it seems the bearing are about $15 each, the pins are in O.K. condition and the shims - well I'm sure I've got some lying around somewhere...

This is an absolute pain in the arse, that's for sure.

EDIT:

Can you guys tell me whether either one of these is correct? I don't want to order from America if I don't have to...

http://www.ebay.de/itm/1x-Suzuki-Swingarm-Needle-Bearing-Eq-Part-No-09263-22017-/251347656393?hash=item3a857cdec9

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Schwingenlager-SAB-307-Suzuki-LS-650-SCHWINGENLAGER-NADELLAGER-/361200404918?hash=item541938c9b6

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by engineer on 09/21/15 at 17:44:58

I can't tell by Ebay numbers if they are correct or not. One part reference describes them as RN 22X29X30 BRG. I suspect that it means a 22mm ID, 29mm OD, and 30mm length but don't know for certain. If you go to an industrial supplier they probably won't be very expensive. You'll have to check what's left of the bearing you pull out to confirm the dimensions. You might even find the size inscribed on the edge of the race.

I believe that 2 or 3 years ago a guy in Europe somewhere had a similar problem and documented his progress in Rubber Side Down. I think he mentioned having some trouble extracting the outer race.

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by Netroxen on 09/23/15 at 07:11:45

Ok, I bought these bearings http://www.ebay.de/itm/Schwingenlager-SAB-307-Suzuki-LS-650-SCHWINGENLAGER-NADELLAGER-/361200404918?hash=item541938c9b6 and they seem to fit well, they're not original and it seems that a large majority of them are being sent out from Poland and Eastern Europe, however they work so that's all that counts.

For reference to any future people who may read this thread, the SAB-307 bearings fit the LS 650 swing arm...

Title: Re: Rear Swing Arm
Post by WD on 09/29/15 at 09:59:30

The best thing you can do the swingarm and headstock is to add grease fittings. Drill and tap where the bearings are, add the fittings, and keep pumping grease to them. A lot of us will dismantle the top of the headstock, pack the entire neck full of grease, and reassemble. You can do the same with the swingarm. Heavy and messy, but, it stops a few issues for you. Also, pull the axles from both hubs and grease your axle shafts, corrosion prevention and squeak eliminator.

Savage bearings are firly primitive and need all the help you can give them. A proper sealed bearing conversion is available as well.