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Message started by Jweintraub on 09/16/15 at 13:37:58

Title: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/16/15 at 13:37:58

So I just picked up a 2007 s40 got a good deal on it as it was not running. No spark so cked the coil it was bad. Installed new coil now I have good spark but still will not start. I have fuel and even tried to start with carb cleaner ( this always worked for me in the past) it suckling in the carb and blowing out the exhaust. I'm very lost at this point. It did do a very light backfire I mean very light the compression seems ok. Any ideas would be great. Thanks guys!

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Dave on 09/16/15 at 13:53:13

What makes you think it has compression? Did you test it with a gauge?

The symptoms you described....sure sounds like there is a compression problem. Confirm that the decompression lever is working as it should....it should pull up for a brief second, then go back to horizontal once the engine has turned over once or twice.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/16/15 at 14:00:29

Cked compression with gauge it read 145. Is that in spec?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Dave on 09/16/15 at 14:45:35

That should be enough for it to start.

Instead of carb cleaner.....try a small amount of gasoline. You can squirt it down the vacuum line for the petcock.

If you have compression, spark and fuel....the only other issue is timing?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by thumperclone on 09/16/15 at 14:45:36

6654585F4543504453310 wrote:

Cked compression with gauge it read 145. Is that in spec?

standard is 142 -200 psi
limit 114 psi

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/16/15 at 15:40:03

Thanks for the help guys. When I get off in the morning I'm going to go get a new gauge and ck the compression one more time. (Mine is very old) then if that cks I'll pull the plug and try a few drops of gas. If still no go I'll move to the timing. I'll most likely need help on the timing process for this bike. This is my first suzuki ever I've always had Hondas but I really like this little thing.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/15 at 18:45:35

How long did it sit?
Might wanna be sure everything is oiled. Engines that sit too long can be damaged by startup.
Hopefully you realized that the plug sits in a cavity, catching crap to drop into the cylinder.
You may have spark with the plug against the engine, but with the load on the starter from compression, you may not. A multimeter, monitoring battery voltage,, the igniter requires a HOT battery. Someone knows what the voltage is.
You can pull the plug wire and use another plug. Then you'll see if it is pulling the load
And
Sparking.

How many miles on it?
Tank rusty?
Drain the carb bowl into a clear container ?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/17/15 at 01:56:15

So the bike sit for about 9 weeks. FuEl tank is clean no rust as is the carb. I did "prime" the cylinder before I tried to start it. It has 28k on it and I cked for spark with the old plug in the head. In a bout 2 hrs I'll be re cking the compression with the new gauge, I'll post finding as I get them. Thanks guys. Also does this year bike have the same cam chain problem?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Steve H on 09/17/15 at 03:59:17

All years have the same cam chain issues.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Dave on 09/17/15 at 04:02:10

1D2F23243E382B3F284A0 wrote:

Also does this year bike have the same cam chain problem?

The cam chain and tensioner are the same for all years.....no factory changes. They all need your attention....and at 28,000 it is far overdue to be checked. One member on our forum did go that long without any issues - but he rode long distances regularly and that seems to be easier on the chain than making short trips.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/18/15 at 13:13:43

OK guys compression cks good with 3 different testers getting good spark. Getting fuel (put some gas in the plug hole) and nothing more than a but of back fire thought the carb. Pulled the muffler thinking maybe to much back pressure that's when it started back firing through the carb. I'm lost now. Plug was not covered with fuel so it's not flooded. Tried in choke and out. If the valves are out of spec would it cause this? I mean I know I'd they were way out it would. Also I don't here any grinding or chain slap like the cam chain is out. I don't really want to pull the cover as it'll take 5 days to get the new gasket for it. Any ideas on what to try next. I can't find a timing procedure anywhere. How do you ck the timing on this bike? Thanks for all the help

Title: Re: Help!
Post by youzguyz on 09/18/15 at 13:21:04

Here is how to check the "timing"

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1278347767

You have to remove the valve adjustment covers and timing cover.
You don't (or shouldn't) need new gaskets for any of them.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/15 at 23:12:06

Either..
Squirt under the seat.Or access the air filter..be sure.
Just a little.
Check voltage,,

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/20/15 at 18:43:31

Well timing checked out good. Did a leak down test and its not holding compression at all and the more I ck it the lower the compression drops. So I did a little test and poured about 2 oz of oil right in the plug hole and bingo compression shot up from 135 to 180 so this means that the rings are not sealing(right?) I've pulled the motor from the frame and I'm going to pull the heads and jug this week and see what I have. Anyone got a good place to order parts from?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 19:06:54

so, it had compression, and you squirt stuff in, no start, less compression, and conclude
Rebuild.
The oil is wiped off from trying to start.
Check the cam tensioner.
Get a Hot battery on it. It's got enough compression to run. Get it going before you start dumping money in it. 28,000 is nothing.
Guys here with over 100,000.
It's cam chain checking time.
Get some ether. Access the intake, give it a little shot.
Stand it up, and hit the button.

It's possible that the jug Is damaged, from sitting, dry cranking, but I'd sure let it prove it before I went digging.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/20/15 at 19:32:29

Compression went up with adding of oil. Starter fluid only gives me back fire through the carb valves cked at .004 on compression stroke and it's in time. Rings is the only thing I can think of at this point. It should hold that compression for some time right? Put a leak down on it and in 5 mins it was at zero. I got this bike as a non running project for 250. Didn't even think about the jug having a Crack in it, anyway to test?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 19:44:06

Did you adjust the valves or just check them?
Do you know Why it got parked?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/20/15 at 20:07:12

Just cked them they where in spec. They guy sad he was riding it to work and it just shut off he got it back to the house and didn't mess with it after that.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 20:27:00

I don't know your age or experience, but I know mine. If it was mine I'd get in and look at the tensioner. Once that was squared away I'd be looking at getting it running, and not pulling the head until I knew that had to be done. You had compression, three times. Leak down, yeah, I'm sure they're valuable, but really, the rings have gaps.
All the engine cares about is what is the compression when the engine is spinning.
Low compression will run..
If it's backfiring out the carb, I'm wondering about how the valve check was done. I'm gonna go back and read,, if you didn't describe how you did it, that'd be good.
I wouldn't hit the starter until I'd looked inside.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/20/15 at 20:54:05

Popped all needed covers I.e valve inspection covers and timing port cover 17 mm turn the crank ccw with fingers on the intake rockers till TDC on the compression stroke and then slide the filler gauge between the adjustment screw and the valve all 4 where at .004.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/20/15 at 20:57:04

Also cam Chain and all look brand new I've got about a 1/4 of the plunger out just eyeballing it.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/20/15 at 20:59:08

Also an engine will back fire if the valve seats are worn and the engine can not hold compression. I thank you guys all for the help

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 21:52:34

Well, you've got a bunch studied. You lined up the marks inside the cover where you had the ratchet..
Whatever you decide, you'll have some guys here who have been in that far.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/20/15 at 22:00:20

Justin thanks for all the help bud I'm going to keep poking and see what I find. It's just odd to be that it leaks down so fast and a say 4 cyl honda if it where to leak dowe that fast I would have no compression. I need to do the oil plug fix on this bike anyway so I'm kinda glade I pulled the motor. I read you can do it with it on the bike but I'm kinda tall 6'2" and don't like to bend. That way. I'll keep you posted as to what I do and how it works out thanks so much and safe riding my friend

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/15 at 07:00:19

Well, it Can be done, on the bike. But, I wouldn't. I'm old and crippled up. Stuff like that goes on a bench. And if I was six foot plus it is absolutely certain it'd be on a bench.
Some guys have built cradles to stabilize it on the bench.

Title: Re: Help!
Post by Jweintraub on 09/25/15 at 12:09:10

So after pulling the jug I found the problem! Scaring at the bottom of the jug :-? So I'm going to over bore it 1 mm I'm about to order a early dr650 95mm piston kit. My question is where to a start with re jet can someone post me in the right direction plz. Also would a 96mm be better I can get it cheaper for some reason?

Title: Re: Help!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/25/15 at 13:01:23

Did you pull the engine or just get down and rassle that booger?
Can you get some pictures of it?