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Message started by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 04:38:25

Title: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 04:38:25

Hi all.

(i'm french, I'll try to be understandable with my poor English)

I'm the owner of a 87' LS650 since last june. There was some work on it (fork oil, front tire). My savage stayed in my garage during 1 mounth. At least, when I tryed to start it, the engine didn't start (starter & engine working but just one explosion). I tried to start with a car battery, nothing.

The carburetor work (fuel smell), but I have no spark on the spark plug. The coil was melted, I changed it > No spark. I checked the CDI box and it smell like something burned inside. I opened the CDI and 1 component smell burn.

I did a research on this website and I found this: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293638302/0

My transistor is not melted, but it smell burned and the board looks heated.
I going to change my CDI for a new one. So, what do you think ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/05/15 at 08:53:14

My transistor is not melted

I tried telling them that, too, but they STILL made me take the medicine.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/15 at 09:10:58

You must left the key on at some point to melt the coil and cdi.

Don't run the starter for long periods w/out a rest or you'll overheat it.

check your grounds, there's one on the engine and one connector for the cdi.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 09:36:47

Where is the ground on the engine, please ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/15 at 09:58:58

4C7C6B6774667C676A6B7C0E0 wrote:

Where is the ground on the engine, please ?

behind the clutch arm.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 10:21:11

Founded, but what I've to do with ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/15 at 10:36:44

remove bolt, clean the tab, bolt and the case.
then put back together.

did you find the cdi ground?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 10:40:26

OK, I'll do it after adding more lights in my garage. The night is coming.

But what do you think about my CDI ? Is it necessary to change it ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 11:20:57

5B485F5E414C4A48431C2D0 wrote:

remove bolt, clean the tab, bolt and the case.
then put back together.

did you find the cdi ground?

No, I didn't... Where it is, please ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/15 at 13:34:18

Take off the left body panel and follow the wires. There should be one black white wire follow that to the connection

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 15:12:46

Founded, but I can only check the connexion. The rest of the wire join the negative wire linked to the battery and all electrics wires are under tape...

But, why do you want I check my grounds ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/15 at 15:16:44

electricity can't flow unless there's a place for it to go.

grounds are the most overlooked.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/05/15 at 15:38:58

Ah ok ! I didn't precise that I checked my spark plug on the engine without result (engine = electrical ground).

What do you think about my CDI ? Is it necessary to change it ?

Someone told me that it could have burned because of the car battery (same voltage but higher amperage).

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/15 at 17:33:14

1C2C3B3724362C373A3B2C5E0 wrote:

replacing the cdi is expensive, and the last resort.
It may seem like we're giving you the run around only cause of that fact.
We only have your words to go on and I'm sure they are translated by google... not very reassuring.
let me remind you, pictures are worth a thousand words.

If you have a buddy that'll lend you a cdi to test and it runs, then it's obvious.
until then we test everything else.

1st, what is the battery voltage? it will not spark with less than 10v while running the starter.

Quote:

So I pull off the tank to test the Ignition Coil with a multimeter, and I notice the right hand control/ starter push switch connector is loose where it connects to wiring harness. So I make sure it's connected properly and then (for giggles) I tested for a spark again. And I got it! Great!

to test the coil, we put an ohm meter on it and check resistance.
the primary coil resistance should be 1-7 ohms and the secondary coil resistance should be 10k-25k ohms on the ignition coil.

Also, with the key on, you should have 12v at one of the terminals of the coil.
the coil should fire if the other terminal is shorted to ground.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 03:27:43

"1st, what is the battery voltage? it will not spark with less than 10v while running the starter."

12v

"to test the coil, we put an ohm meter on it and check resistance.
the primary coil resistance should be 1-7 ohms and the secondary coil resistance should be 10k-25k ohms on the ignition coil."

Primary: 4.5 ohms
Secondary: 12.5 ohms
(It's a "new" coil. The other was melted and shorted)

"Also, with the key on, you should have 12v at one of the terminals of the coil.
the coil should fire if the other terminal is shorted to ground. "

11.8 v on the positive pole of the primary.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/15 at 05:59:47

Is it 12 volts , plug in motor, and starter motor turning?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 06:11:16

No, just with the key on.

"plug in motor, and starter motor turning"

10.65 V for the battery.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/15 at 06:15:55

Gotta test it under load.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 06:19:01

"plug in motor, and starter motor turning"

10.65 V for the battery.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/15 at 06:38:51

Well, looks like it should fire. Now, that's plug in motor, trying to start?
Here's another approach.
Leave plug screwed in head, pull wire, stick a plug in it, hold it against the block, hit start.
No spark?
Pull plug from motor, now, the starter isn't loading the battery near as much without compression, then, if no spark, yeah, probably cdi.
But you gotta get the plug against the block, ground it.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 06:46:56

I already tested with the plug against the block. No spark...

I think isn't normal to smell "burned plastic" in my CDI...

Title: Re: No spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/15 at 06:52:15

Yeah, dude, nobody wants to say
replace the cdi. They cost a lot. So, it's best to test, test and test again
before deciding..
There could be more tests, I don't know.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 07:19:51

It's not a problem for me to replace the CDI if I have to do it.

I can buy a new one for 230 € (approx. 250$) with a 2 years garanty. I just want to hear my savage come back to life.

Maybe another test ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/06/15 at 08:35:27

make sure you're getting 12v to the cdi, then I'd say replace.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 09:25:02

"make sure you're getting 12v to the cdi"

how can I check this, please ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/06/15 at 10:15:25

Just to confuse you, here's a pic from a 96 and the pin out for a 86.
I don't have both for both.
My guess is the orange/wht is 12v
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Circuits/plug95onbackside2.jpg
http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/CDI_Pin_out.jpg

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 10:58:04

I have 12.3 V between "ground" & "+12V".

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/06/15 at 11:04:52

I'd check out 1 more thing...
the timing pickup.

specified resistance is 200-240 ohms.
also check for any shorts to ground, shouldn't be any.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 11:12:00

Sorry, i'm a noob.

Can you tell me where it is and how can I check it ?

Title: Re: No spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/15 at 11:36:16

I wish I understood this part of the bike better. I'm good with some of it, but the carb and charge circuit and the magic of the cdi aren't my strong points.
The smell of burnt electronic stuff is a real consideration. And that the coil was messed up is another indicator, then, no spArk,, I'd be ready to call it dead... If someone else has another idea before you drop that cash,, cool.

You're doing a lot better with English than I'd do with French.
Did you check out the old cars? All French..

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 12:44:35

http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/CDI_Pin_out.jpg

Between "pickup green" and "pickup orange": 216 ohms.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by verslagen1 on 09/06/15 at 13:11:58

that looks to be within spec, looks like the only option left is to get another cdi.

Title: Re: No spark
Post by Breizhrider on 09/06/15 at 13:16:17

Ok, Thank you for all mate.