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Message started by Johnnyblade on 09/02/15 at 13:43:08

Title: Horn
Post by Johnnyblade on 09/02/15 at 13:43:08

Do you guys think a 5 inch diameter car horn will work for a replacement on the s40? I've seen a few on ebay.
John

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/15 at 13:57:06

I can't remember if the bike has a horn relay or if the button carries the load. If it's got a relay, I'd expect to be straight swap.
Someone recently hung a good looking pair on his.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Dave on 09/02/15 at 14:03:53

The stock system does not have a relay. The power wire goes to the horn, and the wire from the horn goes to the switch on the handlebar, and the push button switch grounds the circuit.

If you are increasing the amperage draw by installing a bigger/louder horn - it would be advisable that you also include a relay so you don't overload the stock wiring or horn switch.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/15 at 15:26:37

Yep, a trip to the junk yard, get the horn and relay. Wire it so the button provides ground to the control side of the relay and the relay provides , you can do either, but, I like ground. The downside to that it, you've got a hot wire running to the horn, thru the coil of the horn and back to the relay. That could be an invitation for an issue, should anything happen to pinch that wire... so, maybe on a bike, the relay should control power.
And put a fuse inline.
I put a radiator fan over my seat on the backhoe. Took some doing, but, it was worth it. IF the horn has its own fuse, then make note of it. The fuse amperage will tell you what wire you'll need. You can also either clip the wires that feed the horn and have a sample, or look And see what gauge the car wires are.
THE stock wires should be well able to deal with the current of the relay control. And, it's not like you sit and hold the button.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Johnnyblade on 09/02/15 at 15:56:44

Thanks guys,
The horn I'm looking at is 12v. So it might be a straight swap?

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Dave on 09/02/15 at 18:51:15

The problem is not the voltage....it is the amperage. The bigger and louder a horn is......the more current it will require to run it. At some point you will be using more amperage than the wiring or switch can stand to operate....and you could burn them up without a relay.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/15 at 19:10:51

Looka them itty bitty wires,,,
Spend some time looking around online.
Or, carefully read my post, I address wire size, fuse,

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Kris01 on 09/02/15 at 19:13:07

I would (for safety) add a relay regardless, unless you are swapping to a stock type horn. Like Dave said, a louder horn will probably melt your switch and wiring.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/15 at 19:19:36

Again, covered in my post. IF the horn is on its own fuse, you'll see what amperage the engineers designing it thought it needed.
The wires TO the horn have what gauge they are printed on them.
An old Honda civic does not have a relay And the horn sux,
I put TaUrus horns on it, and a relay..

Title: Re: Horn
Post by thumperclone on 09/02/15 at 22:12:38

the contacts of the horn button end up going bad

button to relay coil
new fused circuit to relay contacts then to new horn

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/15 at 15:12:41

As long as the control end of the relay uses less current than the horn does now, why would it hurt the horn button,?
If you're gonna jump in, maybe you could expand a little.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by JutMan on 09/03/15 at 18:30:19

I put a bigger horn in and not a relay, can someone help by posting what I need to get to prevent burning up my harness?

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/15 at 22:41:54

627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 wrote:

Title: Re: Horn
Post by thumperclone on 09/03/15 at 22:55:44

3C2325223F3809390931232F64560 wrote:

As long as the control end of the relay uses less current than the horn does now, why would it hurt the horn button,?
If you're gonna jump in, maybe you could expand a little.

see post # 5

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 08:12:45

Well, I've done this type of mod and I sent my training laptop Texas tech.
They said if id pay the processing fee, I More than.qualified for an associate's certificate in electronics.
I stand on my suggestion as to how to do the job.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/15 at 08:25:45

maybe if you 2 (JOG/TC) would detail out what you're talking about you'd find that you're saying the same thing.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 09:58:21

Nope, he's saying install a horn button, because using the stock button will burn out the contacts. The stock horn runs it's full load thru those contacts.
It would take a huge relay to draw that current in order to activate a relay.
The appropriate relay for the donor cars horn will be in a fuse block, take it home, probably under hood. The fuse for the horn , the wires that connect to the horn, each are telling what wires to use and how to fuse the circuit.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by thumperclone on 09/04/15 at 11:01:32

455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:

leave the stock button to control the coil of the relay=minimal current
run a new fused circuit thru the relay n.o. contacts to the horn
fuse sized for the horns' draw(current) +125% of course size the wire to fuse size also

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 14:27:56

Didn't look like agreement to me.
If it was intended as agreement, then a quote
+1
Would have eliminated confusion.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by JutMan on 09/04/15 at 16:23:20

What about this?
http://www.cycleterminal.com/horn-kits.html

Title: Re: Horn
Post by KennyG on 09/04/15 at 17:39:56

Jutman,

That seems to be an awfully expensive way to do something so simple.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 19:47:21

Forty bucks, plus a horn ,,
Or, horn and relay and some wire and terminals, maybe some solder,
Totally a defining choice. Someone who likes making stuff versus someone who buys kits. I'd probably build it even if it cost more.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Steve H on 09/04/15 at 21:34:29

The relay will be a small black box. Probably $10 or less at the auto parts house. You'll need wire heavy enough to handle the load for the longest time you think you'll be blowing the horn and the connectors for the relay, horn, etc.

Check the diagram. Apologies for the horrible drawing capabilities but it should get the point across. Always fuse any new circuit you add.

In the second circuit, the horn button energizes the coil in thye relay causing it to close and deliver power to your horn. This will protect your horn button from heavy loads that could kill either the button or the original wiring. The new circuit will carry power straight from the battery through the realy and to your horn giving you full power and volume from your horn.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 21:55:58

If you get the horn at the junkyard you can get the relay outta the fuse block.

Steve, you nailed it.. How did you do that?
I've got drawings on the bench that are about that pretty,but they are just for me, to sort stuff out. First, envision, then draw, then build.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Steve H on 09/05/15 at 11:02:17

I used photoshop and the pencil drawing tool. You would think it would be easy to draw with a mouse but it's not. The, just placed text where it needed to be.

I almost always draw out what I'm doing. Helps keep you on track and if you stick with your drawing and get stopped for a day or have a brain fart, it's easy to figure out where you are and pick up with it again.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by JutMan on 09/08/15 at 07:47:43

756E37343532303F060 wrote:

------------------
This sound right, i suck at wiring and prefer not to burn out my harness.
1. Remove the wires from the horn
2. Attach these wires to the relay, one side to the relay the other side goes to the switch
3. Add 1 heavier wire from the battery to a inline fuse
4. From the inline fuse to the relay
5. Out the relay to the horn
6. Then from the horn to any ground

Pressing the horn button, using the stock wiring, closes the relay protecting the switch from burning out. Then the heavier new wire would carry the needed power to the upgraded horn.

I already have some 16 awg wire, would only really need the proper relay and a place to hide it.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Steve H on 09/08/15 at 16:48:51

You got it. In this configuratioin, you put a much smaller load on the horn button than normal. I like fuses...they prevent melt-downs and small fires.

Title: Re: Horn
Post by JutMan on 09/08/15 at 20:13:57

Found this, while not salvage, it is not the easy way out of overpaying.

http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-USA-In-line-Holder-Automotive/dp/B00C0SATHE/ref=pd_sbs_263_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1SXKRQ3MNB34GA5BHA2K&dpSrc=sims&dpST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_

Title: Re: Horn
Post by Dave on 09/09/15 at 03:34:43

102F2E173B345A0 wrote:

The fuse holders are kinda nice....but the wires they provide are too short and you will end up having to splice on a couple of wires to reach the horn or battery (depending on where you locate the relay. The price is good.

I buy this kind of relay - you can find them in the electric/light department in any auto store, Walmart, Tractor Supply, etc. You just use the crimp-on flat blade connectors and shove them on the terminal in the correct place.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/work-light-accessories/12vdc-3040a-5-pin-universal-relay/1667/3844/

Or some places can sell you a connector to wire in....but you most likely won't find the connector at most auto stores:

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/work-light-accessories/5-pin-relay-socket-/1668/3843/