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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Battery dying when engine hot /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1441059536 Message started by daincitydave on 08/31/15 at 15:18:56 |
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Title: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 08/31/15 at 15:18:56 Good day. Love this forum. First time poster, long time lurker. I have a 1986 Suzuki Savage. It is in decent shape. I recently followed the steps to fix the dreaded Savage oil leak from that loose plug. Thanks for that. The new problem, which when I think back on it, has happened since I got the bike. I have only had it for a month. I am a new rider. The first few rides I did were short. The longest of which, about an hour included me making 1 stop and then continuing. As I was gearing down to enter my driveway the bike lost power and stalled. After talking to some friends, they tested my battery and said it was dead. No problem. I bought another battery. By this point, I had finished my motorcycle training course and was about ready to do longer rides. The first ride was a bust. I went to a buddy's house, then to get a coffee, then went to get gas. After I filled up, the battery was dead. Needed a boost. Next ride; left my house, rode to a meeting spot 15 mins away. waited about 20 mins for my friends. Bike started fine, rode about 10 mins til one buddy had some idling issues. Turned off bike, he fixed his, and then we went to leave and my bike was dead again. Needed a boost. Proceeded to a coffee shop about 15 minutes away, had to bump start it. Half way home it died again. Wouldn't bump. Was getting dark, called a buddy and loaded bike up in his truck. I tested the battery with the multimeter, on and off and while revving. seems OK in that sense. Remember i'm a newb btw lol. Told another buddy about this problem and he pointed out that the problem seems to happen after bike gets hot, it drains the battery. We let the bike get cold, it started up magically after the battery was recharged. Sounded great. revved nice. Then we killed the engine and let it cool. Put a heat gun on it for a few minutes and tried starting it. It chugged and really did not sound like it did 5 minutes earlier. So clearly when hot something is causing the battery to drain. This being the extent of my knowledge I'm now turning for some input from the more experienced people. Any tips/tricks/things to try would be most appreciated; as well if I need to provide more info, just ask. Thank you. ::) |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by verslagen1 on 08/31/15 at 15:32:23 787D75727F756865787D6A791C0 wrote:
The output is supposed to be 14v (or thereabouts) at 4000 rpms (or thereabouts) So when you tested it, what volts at what rpm? 4000 rpm is about what you'd do at 50 mph. Not to many problems while hot specifically, but yours is an '86 so age will breakdown insulation might be the problem. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 08/31/15 at 15:38:23 yes i believe it was 13v while off and 14v while on and revving.. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Dave on 09/01/15 at 03:35:44 Where did you put the heat gun? That sounds like a scary thing to do. Test the voltage when it is hot and the bike won't start. That will help you determine if the problem is voltage related....or if something else is acting up when warm. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by old_rider on 09/01/15 at 06:53:00 You really need to test that battery voltage while you are having the issue. Start it up ride it in circles if you have to, till it dies. I don't think there is a time when a battery recharges itself when cold if it has died when hot. Maybe the rectifier/stator? Were you able to turn the engine over with the starter, when it died? did you have lights? Or maybe the petcock not allowing gas flow..... |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/02/15 at 00:42:12 I'd wager it's your regulator/rectifier. Cheap part. 5 minute fix. See ebay. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Dave on 09/02/15 at 03:55:33 76494F4855527A3C0 wrote:
Well you will only confirm that with a test of the battery voltage when the problem exists. If I were having this problem.....I would invest in a cheap voltmeter so I could monitor the voltage while I was riding. http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-Digital-LED-Display-Volt-Meter-Auto-Car-Cigarette-Lighter-Voltage-Gauge-/331406795201?hash=item4d296261c1&vxp=mtr Or for long term.....a nicer one. (Wow -maybe not this nice....why do sellers list this bogus stuff). http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Meter-5991-ES-Electric-Voltmeter-2-1-16-in-8-18-Volts-/291102305379?hash=item43c70cac63&vxp=mtr This one is affordable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Motorcycle-LED-Waterproof-Digital-Display-Voltmeter-/252053123463?hash=item3aaf897187&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/02/15 at 07:26:41 76494F4855527A3C0 wrote:
09323F2839352E28333B36295A0 wrote:
Yes, by all means. test first. I believe the op already mentioned he has a voltmeter and had tested the stator output at 14v while revving. Testing the r/r will take less than a minute and I'll wager it's bad given that the battery was new (tested good) and the stator is working. The fact that this is occurring while the engine is hot seems coincidental. It's is possible that there is a parasitic draw on the system somewhere else but my money's on the r/r. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/02/15 at 08:26:08 i will ride around the block today until it dies and test it when it dies....i have seen the r/r's on ebay, yes cheap. thanks for all the tips. i'll try and report back! |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/15 at 09:07:40 How long would a fresh battery run without the rr charging? I'm not able to wrap my head around the battery getting warmed up by engine heat and go dead, Now would be a good time to. Build in a pigtail for a float charger. Makes for easy access to connect a bolt meter. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Dave on 09/02/15 at 10:19:50 2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:
A what? :-? |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/02/15 at 10:36:38 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
The problem s more complex than that. The power from the battery isn't just passing through the r/r as if through plain old 14 gauge wire. If the r/r is bad then it will be causing a parasitic draw on the battery (essentially a short circuit). Depending on the draw it might kill the battery immediately or it might slowly suck the life out of it. This issue is frequently intermittent. You might go a day, a week, or even a month without issue and then suddenly the problem is back like a vindictive ex girlfriend. Eventually the problem is persistent and you stop wondering if engine temp, tire pressure, or whatever was playing a role in it. The op has had this bike a month and mentioned that this is a new problem to him, but I'll bet it wasn't a new problem to the po. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/02/15 at 11:42:16 you could be right Justin. just took it for a boot down my road. maybe 2km round trip. half way not leaving second I turned around. on way back got it to third then it started hesitating and eventually died. coasted into my driveway. checked battery right away. was 12. i revved up the engine and it went from 12 to 8 to 10 to 6 to 12. before I left it was 13 while idling. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by thumperclone on 09/02/15 at 12:23:15 14 >15.5 vdc @ 5000 rpm |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/15 at 14:02:41 5D666B7C6D617A7C676F627D0E0 wrote:
A what? :-?[/quote] A bolt meter man, I've got a cold. Shoot,, gotta go scrape my one star off.. Drat. Blast you, Dave! You barmint.. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/03/15 at 08:36:16 I need to add one thing about when it died yesterday. it started hesitating and chugging just before but also backfired a few times. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by verslagen1 on 09/03/15 at 10:02:27 6C6961666B617C716C697E6D080 wrote:
It can be fuel or electrical. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/03/15 at 13:42:48 You definitely have an electrical problem and you may also have a fuel problem. Solve the problem you know you have first. After you resolve your known problem you can start a new thread on any other problem you might uncover. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by verslagen1 on 09/03/15 at 14:22:47 4E7177706D6A42040 wrote:
Don't start a new thread for every perceived problem. You're not experienced enough to know for sure you've solved a problem and not caused another. Or maybe even an intermittent problem that comes back later. I want to know back history. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/07/15 at 15:57:12 ok i have ordered a reg/rec and will install it once it comes in. i'll update soon. also going to be removing tank, cleaning fuel lines/petcock, etc....... :) |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/14/15 at 19:39:38 got a text from my wife. package came today. i'll install the reg/rec tomorrow and report back. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Kris01 on 09/14/15 at 19:42:43 Can someone find the thread about using a GSXR reg/rec. Isn't it supposed to be cheaper and easier to find than one for our bikes? |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Kris01 on 09/14/15 at 19:45:34 Nevermind. Found it. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1221083699/0#0 |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/14/15 at 20:02:19 mine was 23 on ebay |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/15/15 at 01:02:31 $23 well spent. When you change it, be sure you've got a good battery. The swap will take you less than 5 minutes. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/15/15 at 13:10:40 ok took my seat off and then realized that one clip is there buy one is hardwired instead of using a clip. is it going to be as easy as cutting the three wires, cutting off end with clip and splicing them together??? |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/15/15 at 13:13:39 and how do I know which clip on the new reg/rec do I cut? lol |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Dave on 09/15/15 at 13:22:08 So....is this hardwire affair because somebody moved the rectifier off the fender? Do the wire colors on both ends of the white wires match up? |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/15/15 at 13:26:10 nope. its still on fender. the part that's been modified go down under the foot brake side of the bike behind the air filter cover. adding a photo of new part. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/15/15 at 21:39:03 ok I'm asking this as a YouTube learner and I've come a long way but have a q about cutting the three butt connectors off the wires, can I use either sets of these to connect them to the new regulator? and I have no idea why my pics are all upsidedown lol |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/15/15 at 22:37:03 Those connectors,,, uggh, I've used those.. I wasn't happy with the long term . They work, but didn't last. The tubular butt splice work okay.. but a good stripper really helps, well, DUUHH, don't they, though? And then they crimp the splicer onto your wire. And that can be nice,, http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-11063W-Katapult-Stripper/dp/B00BC39YFQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1442381413&sr=8-2&keywords=automatic+wire+strippers At Lowe's, not in tools, but in back, with the electrical supplies, conduit, breakers,I spent around twenty-five.. But they just strip. Crimpers are part of electronic cheapo, usually red handled,wire stripper/crimpers. You can get a set of the common gauge connectors and a stripper/ crimper at harbor freight. I'm not a fan of wire nuts and vibration. I usually solder and heat shrink, but, seems aircraft guys are less thrilled about that. I've never had a failure. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/19/15 at 02:06:31 The blue ones in your photo will do fine. I prefer a bullet splice or spade but you're good with what you have on hand. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Steve H on 09/19/15 at 02:15:01 I would trust a properly soldered and heat shrinked connection a lot more than I would any connection with some sort of connector whether that be spade, butt splice crimp, wire nut, twisted and taped...but that's just me. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/15 at 20:19:29 Czech, those are taps,not exactly for what he's doing and they press a blade with a slot through the insulation. They are commonly used for installing a trailer pigtail. Those are lousy. I've yet to see one fail to fail. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/20/15 at 02:35:38 I was thinking that given the state of affairs with it he was asking about his initial trial. Even with that I'd still prefer a bullet or spade for testing. Once it's sorted he'll solder them, I'd expect. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 07:22:55 Well, I didn't see Temporary Or I'm gonna solder them later. Gotta be you tubes on soldering and heat shrink. Get someone, practice stripping, wrapping, flux, solder and heat shrink. You wanna see the shape of the strands, a glob of solder isn't the perfect connection. But, you're not gonna do perfect. Once in a while I get one really nice, but, heh, good is good.. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 14:03:42 If trial run is the goal, then use the wire nuts. Those wire taps sometimes don't work, brand new. What gauge wire the project has is not something I would know. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/20/15 at 16:32:15 ok so i didnt go with either clip. i bought some butt connectors for the time being. also dropped bike off at local shop to fix my oil leak once and for all. should have it back soon and can do follow up tests :) thanks all... |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by MnSpring on 09/20/15 at 17:04:52 Well in, ’troubleshooting’ a connection, I do wire nuts. Then, when everything is, ‘as it should be’, go back and, (as JOG says), soder and shrink Wrap. Or, if it needs to be taken apart for some reason or another, ‘Bullet’ ends, (soder and shrink wrapped) to the ‘Bullet’ ends. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 17:42:59 It'll be interesting to see what that costs. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/20/15 at 19:39:53 a buddy of mine fixed the 'famous savage oil leak' for me. that cost nothing other than a lot of coffee and donuts lol. but as we were putting things back together he commented that he's not sure how long the valve covers would last and after a few weeks i'm sure it was them that started the new leak. disturbing everything in the case i'm sure didnt help their lifespan. So hopefully its not an expensive job lol i actually gave him a number and said if you go over this thats all you'll get but you'll get me as a shop boy to work the rest off lol |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/20/15 at 19:42:49 here is my beast by the way.... |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/15 at 19:51:39 Not being there to see, no idea about how it was done. I went in a few times. Never had a leak. The only leak was the clutch arm o ring in the clutch cover. The bike isn't junk, taking it apart, putting it together, with attention to detail, and there's no reason to expect it to fall apart. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/22/15 at 14:35:26 bike is done at the shop. Here is what was done: 1. Oil leak fixed. Valve covers were replaced. 2. Choke fixed. Apparently it was not even hooked up right. 3. Carb cleaned out was clogged and not closing properly. 4. Rewired my sub-par Reg/Rec wiring lol He said its working great. I pick it up on Thursday. He did say that my bike conking out all the time was most likely due to the carbs. But as far as electrical goes the reg/reg wasnt able to be troubleshot as it was brand new and bike hadnt been started with the new one yet. so i'm glad i replaced that. I'll update Thursday after i take it out for a rip. Thanks for everyone's help. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/22/15 at 20:22:41 I know that everyone is dying to know how much it set you back. I'm cringing already in anticipation. There's no pressure to tell if you don't want to, though, but where I live, all of that would've cost around $400. I hope you got a better deal than that. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/22/15 at 21:35:56 lol when I dropped it off i said keep it under 250 I'm poor. and I'm in Canada so that's like 75 cents American. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/22/15 at 22:08:45 5451595E5359444954514655300 wrote:
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/22/15 at 22:34:48 0401090E0309141904011605600 wrote:
You didn't do too bad then, I suppose. Do as JOG2 said, and next time you'll save yourself a trip to the mechanic...and a whole bunch of Canadian scratch. :o |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/23/15 at 18:22:50 $310 |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 09/25/15 at 01:10:06 Eager to hear a ride report :) |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/25/15 at 18:06:20 First time in the ten years I've been here someone needed valve covers. How can anyone mess that up? Choke wasn't hooked up right? Must be some absolute Bozos out there.. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 09/27/15 at 11:00:12 I am learning that the guy I got the bike from was a bit shady and did not disclose nearly the number of problems he should have. I had a good talk with the bike mechanic when I picked up my bike. He did not fix the leak. Says that would have gone outside of my budget by a long way. What he did fix was my carburetor and my choke and re-routed my throttle cable so i didnt accelerate as i turned corners. Did not have anyone to take me to get my bike so i had to pick it up with my trailer. Brought it home and immediately took it for a rip. Made it about 1 block before it conked out and died. WTF. Would not restart at all. Dead battery. Some dude on rollerblades with no shirt and 2 wiener dogs rode up to me as i was pushing it home and says he heard me a block away and it sounded like my air filter was clogged. Got the bike home, threw it on the trickle charger and took out the air filter. Charged it up, started it up. Time to go around the hood again. 10 minutes, no problems. 20 minutes, no problems. Going to go home. Parked it. Had to go to work. Next day, i'm off. Did the same small route to make sure all was good. Seems good. Decided to go for a bit further of a ride. Went to my father's house, about 30 minutes away. Took back country roads and stretched it to about an hour. Had a coffee at his place. Went to leave, dead battery. WTF. Not liking this trend. After 2 boosts along the way I managed to get home. Time for some electrical troubleshooting. Took seat off and wiggled one of my butt connectors that i did a few days earlier. One of the wires popped right out, wasn't even connected. :( Had an electrical buddy come over and he properly did them with a heat gun, etc., and they were tight. We did all the multimeter tests and all seemed good; bike off, battery not connected, battery connected bike on, etc., all combinations seemed good with power. Bike started this morning with no problems. I wont be able to ride again for any period of time until Thursday but I am hoping the regulator not being connected with all wires was the cause of the battery dying.........the saga continues... |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/04/15 at 15:53:39 ok, i am a troubleshooting machine. i have worked with a few friends over the last few days and wow is this heading in a different direction. update on a few things... carbs - working sweet air filter - removed it, waiting on new one - bike runs and does not die anymore while riding went for a day of sweet riding and thought all my issues were resolved. then thought i'd go for one last ride after dinner. bike would not start at all. click click click. this time i had my borrowed multimeter. battery was A-ok. next line in the chain would be the solenoid. a friend had a new one. put it in, same thing. didnt start. my mechanic friend suggested getting another battery, hooking negative up to a bolt or something on the bike, and the positive directly to the starter. says it will start but spark lol. well it sparked but did not move, turn over, or do anything. would it be safe to assume, that the issue a bike will not start after doing everything i have done, that the starter could be the root of my problem with it not starting up after getting hot? Initially thought battery was dead when it did this but now i'm thinking maybe its really the starter being intermittent. thoughts from experts?!?!?! |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/15 at 16:15:50 here's something you can do with the air filter... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1183640744 about that starter... did it even try to turn? if the decomp solenoid is out of adjustment, the starter will just stall. the lever is on top of the head on the left side and that's the 1st click you hear. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/15 at 16:22:09 Check grounds. A good battery can't start it if electrons can't flow. You can test the solenoid. Engage it with 12 volts on the small wire, if it's just one small wire, it frame grounds.Two small wires means ones hot, the other, ground, make sure that is happening. Usually a rapid click is low battery. Put a meter on the wire at the starter. See if you get twelve volts. Heck, remove it from the starter, the clicking should stop and you should get steady voltage at that terminal. If it's appreciably less than the battery, you've got bad connections or the solenoid is arced and not conducting well. You can bypass it. If you short around it and it starts, it's bad. Or, remove the hot lead in from the battery to solenoid, leave the small ones, hit start, read ohms across the guts of the solenoid. The uninitiated should go online and see what's inside, how they work. It's just a relay. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Dave on 10/05/15 at 03:34:28 7D7870777A706D607D786F7C190 wrote:
What does a clogged air cleaner sound like? (The only experience I have with that is a lawn mower....and it just sounded and ran like the choke was on all the time). If the bike runs fine for half an hour....then doesn't - I can't see how that can be related to an air filter? Can the filter go go from clean to dirty....then back to clean again overnight (with a battery charge)? It also appears you rode the bike without an air filter....and it still died after a while. Doesn't that show the problem is not the air filter? Don't be so fast to take the advice from strangers. ;) Hopefully that loose wire was the problem., and I guess there isn't any problem in having a new air filter. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 10/06/15 at 17:15:57 4A717C6B7A766D6B7078756A190 wrote:
We're strangers too ya know :) ...You're right though. I'm not sure what the sound of a bad air filter is or if there is such a thing. I made an air filter using the link Versy posted. It works great and is a great value. Watch out for guys walking weiner dogs dispensing motorcycle repair advice...that's the real lesson here. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/06/15 at 17:56:20 lol actually turns out that the guy is my brother's wife's cousin. that was why he stopped to talk to me lol. he said that it sounded like my air filter was clogged and not letting air pass through. when i pulled my filter out, it was hard as a rock lol like cardboard. nothing was going through it at all. after a few more days of tests and fiddling, i found something peculiar. the regulator i installed, one harness plugged in, the other one i had to cut harness off and direct wire. a friend told me to clean the contacts. so when i unplugged the set of wires in the harness something did not look right. There is a black and white wire coming out of regulator into the harness. there are 3 slots in the harness. black at bottom and red top left. well the opposite harness that it plugs into is not set up the same way lol. the red actually goes into an empty slot. am i able to pull out the red and move it to the slot next to it? lol wondering if its not making a connection and thats why i cant start the bike... |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Steve H on 10/07/15 at 04:22:54 That might explain the battery going dead on you. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/11/15 at 11:22:40 Ok. I had a very good friend, and bike mechanic come over and spend some time on my bike. Checked through wiring, tests, etc., and the problem seemed to point to the starter. he pulled it off..took it home and worked on it. i guess there was a short in the main connection and that was causing a problem every time i started the bike. he fixed it and we put it back on yesterday. By this time though the battery had drained due to being shorted so many times. let it trickle charge all day and when i got home last night from dinner, battery read 15. perfect. unhooked charger and turned it over. well WTF. started no problem and faster than it had ever started before. wasnt able to ride last night so just let it idle for a bit. tried again this morning, started up no problem again. had to go to work but i'm off tomorrow. CANNOT wait to ride and will update with how awesome it was not how i got 2 miles from home and needed a boost LOL crossing fingers.. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/15 at 15:19:29 CONGRATULATIONS! I'm happy to see you got it going. Now, could you explain howcum it took three MONTHS to get your good friend over? Whatsamatta with you? You couldn't buy some beer and some meat to scorch on the grill and invite the guy over ? Man, someone who can Fix the starter, not just replace it,,sounds like a genuine mechanic to me. Did he explain what it was? |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/11/15 at 15:30:21 oh i had him over throughout this whole process. but i didnt want to burden him all the time with my problems lol. he is the first to fix the oil leak actually. so what the problem was....apparently the post that the terminal attaches to had a short inside the unit. it was not grounded inside and every time i started it, it would make it worse...eventually to it locking up i guess...he sent me some photos i'll post them if i get around to it. yes almost 3 months of issues. but i am convinced i had 2 or 3 issues and had to work through them in the troubleshooting flow...thanks everyone... |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/15 at 15:38:34 Yeah, I have been messing with a riding mower for a month,, used stuff, you just never know.. I'm glad I didn't buy it.. yet. The three hundred dollars he wanted ain't happening. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/11/15 at 16:25:00 well funny story about how i ended up with this bike. will make a great blog post one day lol. i picked up an Atari 2600 at a garage sale for 5 bucks. traded that system for a doodle bug. fixed up the doodle bug and made it awesome. traded that for a mini baja... fixed up the mini baja and made it awesome. even found a trailer for it and customized it. traded the baja and its trailer for a 1990 Goldwing. that bike was giant. didnt like it lol. traded that for this savage. love the savage. love how it feels, how it rides. i put on drag bars and its even cooler lol. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/15 at 17:06:42 Wow,, a horse and doodle buggy trader! What a way to go from spending five bucks at a garage sale to Savage owner. I trust you made some bucks on that last Trade. And yeah, a Goldwing is just a heavy beast. What tip to those who have what it takes to ride them. I've seen skinny old men with not so skinny women on the back. How they hold them up is beyond me. I nearly dropped the Savage at stops a bunch of times. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/11/15 at 19:07:29 i love this Savage. my last trade, over the weekend, was my Colecovision and Sega Genesis for a 1985 Yamaha FZ750 lol |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/15 at 19:16:14 Man, what do you want to do? You wanna play video games or ride or what? And how does anyone trade, pardon my ignorance, whatever a colecovision and a Sega for a motorcycle? Where are you finding this stuff? Ohh, and just to be clear, I applaud such horse trading. I watch American pickers and other such shows. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by verslagen1 on 10/11/15 at 19:17:20 66797F7865625363536B79753E0C0 wrote:
JOG, you're supposed to put your feet down. ;D Dain, I can drop a lot of crap off for trading purposes :) |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/15 at 19:21:21 Ohh, I had feet down, but it just nearly took me down several times, early on. Later on, after plenty of experience, I nearly lost it on Sandy, gravelly stuff at a stop sign. Power splits,, |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by Kris01 on 10/11/15 at 19:26:52 393C34333E342924393C2B385D0 wrote:
Wasn't mine, was it? No, wait, the wife sold mine for $20 while I was at work! >:(. Couldn't have been mine! |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/11/15 at 22:12:35 I'm in Canada and primarily use kijiji. I have lucked out so bad to have worked my way up.to this bike. now I got.the Yamaha to part out. isn't running but has a lot of sellable items. using it to fund the savage and what I want to do to it. those gaming systems had their day. I would never play them again so figured why not use them as currency. if he guy has a bike chances are good if he's young he likes games too lol the guy I got the goldwing from was a bit of a tool very surprised that deal went down lol. with ownership. lol. people that saw.the goldwing thought he ripped himself off lol. the dude I got the savage from was a bit.sketchy. he took the goldwing. he was a tool too. he wanted a bigger bike. that was the goldwing. after we traded he never returned my texts or emails about the problems. the guy must have known. the thing with me is that im curious, stubborn and resourceful. and cheap lol so the less I put into the bike initially justified buying a part here and there. but all at once the once in a while things became the norm. oil leak electrical short battery not charging battery case made contact with terminals sparking as you rode lol. got a new battery. new regulator. resoldered a lot of wire connections. drag bars and a misfits sticker. lol. and tomorrow if all goes well I'll be riding for more than 25 minutes 8-) |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/13/15 at 10:43:56 well my fun yesterday was short lived. i went out for a 15 minute ride to make sure i wasn't going to be stranded. let bike sit for 10 mins, then went out again. this time about a 25 minute ride to the river. had a coffee and a muffin. then went to a buddy's house about 15 minutes from there. he had never seen my bike, so after being there for about 15 minutes i started it up and showed him how great it is lol. then 20 minutes later when i went to leave bike wouldnt start. very little battery power. boosted it with his car. noticed some arcing at the bottom of the battery box when i was starting while boosting; right at the belt guard and battery box. made it home, battery read about 11. was clearly low. stuck a piece of rubber between the guard and box and then set the trickle charger up. once battery was full bike started no problem. somewhere it is shorting out. the design of the battery box is so stupid lol. i think the positive terminal sometimes makes contact with the top plate of the box. anyone have any relocation or modification tips to the battery box?? |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by verslagen1 on 10/13/15 at 11:30:49 Well, if you've had your bat box out, you'd notice several wires are routed behind it. maybe one of those is shorted. Yes, we should ditch all those beloved metal parts for plastic ones so you don't get a short in your shorts. ::) |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 10/13/15 at 12:23:59 657661607F7274767D22130 wrote:
Yeah, it wouldn't do any harm to check those wires, but I might remind you that he said he noticed arcing while jump starting. I think it's more likely that he had contact from the positive lead of the jumper cable with ground on the bike. I say this because if he truly had an intermittent short from the positive battery terminal to ground he'd have most likely noticed arcing at other times not just while jump starting. I'd expect some popped fuses or maybe he'd have even been zapped by now as much as he's been poking around. The arcing seems coincidental is what I'm saying. @daincitydave, I should mention that there should be a rubber boot on the positive battery cable that covers the terminal connector. Even without that boot, if you have the correct battery and hardware it shouldn't be making contact. Think about it...This problem is unique to you so rushing to judgement on the design of the box might be a little rash, although, I will admit that it could be better. I'm going to say this again...My gut tells me that you need to look to your regulator/rectifier. I would urge you again to check all your wiring and test your r/r using a multimeter. If I'm wrong you'll lose nothing by checking it. It'll take you five minutes and you'll know for sure. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by norm92de on 10/13/15 at 14:22:01 The S40 is one of the easiest handling bikes I have ever owned. I have to admit that my Bonneville T 100 can be a bit intimidating all 500 lbs of it. It would be nice to be 6' or so and 200 pounds. A 29" inseam just doesn't cut it. :'( |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by norm92de on 10/13/15 at 14:27:30 Another thought. The internal balancer does a pretty good job of controlling the vibration. Even 70 mph is reasonably smooth. incredible for a 650 single! ;D |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/13/15 at 19:05:28 part of me is wondering if i was sent the correct regulator; as you have mentioned. i have asked the seller to verify the part was for my bike. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/18/15 at 11:29:13 update! swapped the red wire in the harness and put it in the empty slot. took bike for two rides. then it would not start. charged it up again. rode to my buddy's house for further testing. after an hour or so he really thought the battery was bad and was not holding a charge. luckily i still had the original battery from the bike before all this began. put that in after getting home. started up fine. took it for a 10 minute ride. started after stopping. did that 3 or 5 more times. started up each time. my buddy really thought all these shorts and problems messed with my battery and it was toast. every few hours i started the bike up yesterday. even today too. it has never started this many times in a row....i want to be cautiously optimistic here as its never been this consistent lol. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 10/18/15 at 17:59:20 That's entirely possible. I toasted two batteries when my r/r went bad. After I replaced the r/r I had to replace the battery and then all was fine. The thing to do now is test your r/r and the rest of your wiring. A parasitic draw is easy to spot. Just connect the positive lead of your multimeter to any always hot wire and and the negative lead to a good ground...wait...watch. If the voltage gradually drops you have a parasitic draw and you have some diagnosing to do. If the voltage holds you're good. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by daincitydave on 10/18/15 at 18:21:05 while bike is off? on? on and idling? |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 10/18/15 at 19:16:35 Test for parasitic draw while the bike is off. If the voltage holds steady for five minutes you can be pretty sure your r/r is no longer a problem. To be sure you can test the r/r. Here's a YouTube video that shows how https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8EjV0IjW9Q it's simple. If you get good results then you can attach your positive lead on your multimeter to the positive battery terminal and the negative lead to the negative terminal and start the bike. Rev the motor up to around 3k and you should get around 14.5 volts. If the voltage is lower than 14 you may be looking at a stator problem. |
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Title: Re: Battery dying when engine hot Post by chzeckmate on 10/21/15 at 00:21:29 I just noticed your post in the "How to test your r/r" in the tech section. After reading that, your post on page 4 of this thread finally made more sense. IIRC, the red wire on your new r/r should go to the empty slot so I think you've done the right thing. If your battery is good and you don't have a parasitic draw anywhere else you should be fine now. I know it's only been a couple of days since you swapped it to the empty slot but I'd like an update on your experience with it when you get the chance. |
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