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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Running hot? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1440518479 Message started by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/25/15 at 09:01:17 |
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Title: Running hot? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/25/15 at 09:01:17 My Savage has been sitting pretty much idle for weeks. I drove it for about 300 miles when I first got it, then started to mess around with the seat and saddlebags and turn signals and rectifier-relocation....so it hasnt been ridden. About 4 weeks ago I started her up, let her idle for about 5 mins, then shut her down. I waited at least 15 minutes and then pulled the oil drain plug. The plug was still so hot you could not hold it in your hand. After the oil drained out with the bike more or less level, I re-installed the drain plug and put 2 bottles of Suzuki brand 10-40 oil. I didnt change the filter. I swapped the standard oil filler cap for a bling cap with the Suzuki logo on it, but that is the only thing I did "mechanically" to the engine. Oil level showed just a hair above dead center in the observation window. I started her up again, let it run for just a minute or so, then shut her down. I havent run the engine since. Today, I started her up to see if the battery was holding a charge. She started up fine, but seemed noisy. Then again, compared to the 250 Honda I have been riding, everything sounds noisy. I let her run for about 3 or 5 minutes, revving her just a bit from time to time. The engine sounds seem louder than the exhaust sounds. I shut her off again and she seemed REALLY hot. I mean like radiating heat to my legs through my jeans. After about 5 mins I checked the oil level...was still just above the middle of the window. The exhaust pipe near the header seems to have discolored just from the 5 mins of idling. I'm posing a pic of before the oil change (with 300 of my miles and 4K from previous owner) and a pic I just took. Am I imagining things? The bike hasnt fallen over, the covers were not removed, nothing at all done to the engine between the 2 pictures besides the oil change. Am I nuts? |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Dave on 08/25/15 at 09:39:52 I would never recommend anyone just let their bike sit and idle for 5 minutes. It has relatively low oil pressure at idle, it has no air flow over the cylinder and head, and the little cavity in the cylinder head where the cam lobes dip into the captured oil pool is not level....and the right side cam lobe might not be getting enough oil. I start my bike, keep the rpm up about 2,000 rpm for about 30 seconds to move the oil around and get a bit of warmth into the engine, then ride off slowly. I let the bike warm up for a few minutes and get a couple miles down the road before I ever apply any heavy throttle. (The clutch can slip when the oil is cold and thick). If I can't go for a ride....I don't start the bike up at all. Bluing on the pipe is an indication of the exhaust being hot....most likely because you are not riding it an no air is flowing over the pipe. It is not necessarily an indication your bike is overheating.....just hot from sitting still too much. I don't know what to comment about the noise. Perhaps the Suzuki oil is just a bit thin for your bike. Rotella T is a 15W-40 oil and works really well in the Savage. Go get some Blue Job to clean your pipe.....then stop letting it idle for so long and get out and ride the darn thing. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/15 at 09:42:34 Well, dangitt, now I gotta go out to the shop and put another gold star by Dave's name... |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/15 at 09:58:32 also, you haven't run more than a qt. of gas thru it in months, that gas is old and thick. could be varnishing up your jets too. and "suzuki brand oil" ?!?! haven't we taught you any better? rotella, get some ZDDP in there. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Serowbot on 08/25/15 at 10:15:41 Mine's bluer... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by FerousBastard on 08/25/15 at 11:57:44 When in stop and go traffic mine get's quite hot with the stock lean jetting, hot enough to be felt through a heavy pair or jeans. How high is your idle? If too low the top end might not be getting enough oil which, AFAIK, can make it a bit noisy. Also, are you sure you put enough oil on? Not sure how much two bottles are but the side usually says something like 1800ml, memory might be out on that one. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/15 at 12:15:54 Noisy, and ruined. The engine is an old design. Modern oils don't meet its needs. Pampering it by lavishing special, sanctioned oils on it is wasting money and sending it to an early grave. You have people here with 100,000 miles who run Rotella.. Why do other than what is proven to work And save money? |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/25/15 at 14:55:02 First off, thank you Dave for the non-satirical reply and the tip on Blue Job...I just ordered some. Ferous, I read that the bike takes 2 quarts even, if you dont do a filter change. seeing as the oil level is JUST above the mid-point on the window, it could probably use a couple more ounces. As for the snarky remarks on the choice of oil, I bought a "suzuki oil change kit" with genuine suzuki oil and filter for the LS650 the same day I bought the bike. I didnt join this forum until a week later, so since I had it...I used it. The plan was to change the oil, ride it 200 miles, then change it again (being as the bike had not really been driven for a couple of years). I have a gallon of Rotella and will use it when I do the next oil change (and put in the new filter) which I will do within the next couple weeks. The gas in the bike was fresh 6 weeks ago and has a couple cap-fulls of ZDDP in it. The carb probably DOES need cleaning but I am not at a point where I'm comfortable tearing it apart yet. I'll do it when I get the Dyna on and do the re-jetting as per info found here. REALLY Justin? Noisy and ruined? Anyone ever tell you that your conversational skills are a bit lacking? ::) |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/15 at 15:10:26 snarkey? I guess I have a long way to go before I'm up to JOG standard curmudgeon. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by oldNslow on 08/25/15 at 15:13:43 ZDDP additive - redline, or whatever you've got - is supposed to be mixed with the oil, not the gas. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/15 at 20:24:25 Stu, I've been here ten years. I'm typing on a Kindle. I'm a lot more concerned about the lives of the engines than sugar coating on the words. If too low the top end might not be getting enough oil which, AFAIK, can make it a bit noisy. Too low an idle and the cam eats the head.. And yeah, it's liable to be noisy. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/26/15 at 18:12:53 645A5B57455958360 wrote:
Note to self: Do NOT post when on pain medication (unfortunately that is most days lately). I was of course "mixing my additives" :o I meant to say I added a few caps of Seafoam to the fuel. And yes, I did add the ZDDP to the Suzuki oil when I changed it. T-stormed most of the day here today, but will warm her up a bit tomorrow, drain the oil and change the filter, and then put the Rotella in and see what happens. Justin I couldnt care less how long you have been here and if you were typing on a Blackberry from the International Space Station....my comment still stands. In a forum that caters to a multitude of people of every age, race, nationality, culture and geographical location, DELIVERY can be just as important as the information provided. Your delivery needs work in my humble opinion. If that gets me in hot water or kicked from the forums, so be it. Thanks again all for the info. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/26/15 at 19:46:34 If someone says some thing to you, I'll back you up. I know I ruffle feathers. If someone chooses to ignore what I say because it isn't sweet and kind, I'm okay with that. I'm not a Sunshine and Lollypops kinda guy. When I was fixing copiers my boss got complaints about three times a week. People wanted me fired. But, I fixed the problem. And he kept bringing money every week,after vacation and sick leave was used up, when I was sick for six weeks. And, I went back to all those offices where they didn't like me, and fixed their copiers... I fix things, I'm not nearly as good socially as mechanically. And I'm not likely to be anything other than direct and to the point. Low idle RPM has been known to ruin a head and cover.. So, telling someone it can cause noise, while true, understates the problems associated with low idle. How did you need me to correct you and not hurt your feeling? |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by chzeckmate on 08/27/15 at 01:55:32 If the medicine works it doesn't matter how it tastes. We're men (most of us) and we burp, fart, and cuss...in between all of that gas we get things done. I'd say worry less about intent and more about content. Take what you can where you can and recycle the rest with the dirty oil. Having said that, I'd like to mention that my bike's temperament can change daily...hell it can change hourly depending on the variables in play. You had this experience this time, but it might be nothing to worry about. Maybe a few more runs for good measure? I'll add that I've had bad experiences with manufacturer branded oil before. I should also mention that with a big single like this you can expect a gold header pipe, maybe even blue. I'd save the Blue Job for when you're ready to sell. Blue Job works by removing the layer of the chrome that's discolored. If you use it every time you notice the pipe getting gold you'll soon see rust coming through the chrome. Blue Job is a once or twice in a lifetime thing imo. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Sonny on 08/27/15 at 10:49:40 Justin o guy is a good man... you'll get to know him. He can be helpful and a hale fellow well met. Keep in mind too, this is the internets... and we all type differently when we are at peace with the world as opposed to, say, if we happen to have 8 or 10 burning chigger bites in the crotch. I know I certainly do. I can be a monster on a bad day... :P |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by JutMan on 08/27/15 at 12:11:08 I did my first oil change with the Suzuki synthetic as well. I really think the engine hated that stuff. It was $36 down the tubes. I bought some Rotella off Amazon for $12 a gallon and it loves the stuff! I do drop in a bit of ZDDP as well. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/15 at 18:42:25 And that twelve bucks will almost do it twice. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/28/15 at 01:41:35 Roger that on the Blue Job chzeckmate....nice to know I have it if I decide to clean her up real good for some occasion. Drover her about 12 miles today, then home, drained oil, removed and replaced filter (looked brand new), filled with Rotella to just a tad under the "too high" mark. Bike sounds MUCH happier. Thanks again all. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/28/15 at 06:46:16 The Guzzi, picked up in Houston, and rode home to Longview, had blue pipes before I got out of town. What's wrong with that? I think they look right,, |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by chzeckmate on 08/28/15 at 09:53:04 It's a matter of aesthetic preference. Some people want their bike to look like it's never been ridden, that showroom look. Some people like to have a little evidence that they've been twisting the throttle, like a badge of ownership. Eh, to each his own. I personally prefer my pipe to at least show some heat coloring. It's like a warning to any curious kid that says, "WARNING HOT - DON'T TOUCH!" |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Dave on 08/28/15 at 13:52:54 The Savage has an inner and out pipe, which helps make it possible to avoid the blue (on some bikes). My bike has 6,000 miles and no bluing. Triumphs, BMW, Honda and most other bikes have a single wall pipe and can turn blue as soon as the bike is ridden. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/28/15 at 18:07:57 I made five thousand miles, still shining chrome, sitting in the driveway, revving it, trying to hear the valves, and looked down in horror,, it's Blue! Ticked me off, eventually, I liked the look. Some months later I removed the header, sliced it up carefully, removed the inner pipe, and had a guy tig it back together. Yeah, it GLOWED red at night.. I indexed it as I cut, it fit, the welder was kinda tickled by the project and my help and putting things up, he didn't even charge me. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/29/15 at 10:10:37 chzeck, the bluing doesnt bother me because of the way it looks...my concern when I made this thread was that I got so much of it in such a short time. It's obviously an indicator of heat, and pipes get hot....no worries, but for the blueing to double in size from 5 minutes of idling? I was worried that I had an engine issue that was causing OVERheating. Nice to know it can be removed if and when I decide to, but blued pipes dont take away from a bike's look IMHO. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Sonny on 08/29/15 at 11:23:31 2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:
TIG welders are a class apart. I learned this from observing my instructors in welding school. Stick and MIG welders are earnest craftsmen. Oxyacetylene torch welders can be some real artistes. But TIG people are often like brain surgeons in terms of being extremely good at what they do and knowing it, and just getting a kick out of their work, whether it be stitching together sheets of tinfoil or repairing $2000 turbine blades or running miles of flawless rope-like aluminum bead. They look at their bead and look at you and just grin. And you go, darn... Because they ARE good... ;) I went to TIG school thinking to get me a $75 an hour white lab coat job fixing jet turbine blades in a glove box full of argon. I applied at several aviation companies around town. They laughed and said, Go weld up camper tops and yard furniture for five years, then come back and talk to us. I slinked away with tail between my legs, the smell of burning metal coming out of my ears. Back to gee-tar playing... :( |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Sonny on 08/29/15 at 11:42:47 Sadly, a lot of the coolest TIG jobs are being replaced by robotics doing friction welds or other automated processes which generate near perfect joints, but without the stylish flair, and the machinery doesn't grin when it is finished... it just CAMS over to the next piece of work and lights the arc. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by verslagen1 on 08/29/15 at 12:36:55 If you can move to CA I got a job for you. You'll be welding Ti, CRES and Inconel all day. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Sonny on 08/29/15 at 12:45:09 What, Vers, are you getting tired of welding up another hole on those blasted chain tensioners? :P |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Sonny on 08/29/15 at 12:52:50 Seriously, I learned the hard way that the high end work on exotic metals is very hard to get. The skill, testing and knowledge required is daunting. The big earners are highly qualified, because in every case there is a lot of money and often a lot of lives riding on their work. I ate my humble pie, and have a lot of respect for folks who can do that stuff. |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Sonny on 08/29/15 at 13:06:16 My only hands-on was with stainless steel (this was 20+ years ago in school.) Stainless is a booger to TIG weld... hard to control heat, hard to control warpage... you have to work incredibly close to the melt pool with the tiniest arc. If you ground the electrode into the pool you make a mess, if the arc gets a little long, runaway heat. I never got where I could relax with it. 15 or 20 minutes and I had a crick in the neck and frayed nerves... |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by Sonny on 08/29/15 at 13:12:58 Then my instructor would take my torch, run a couple inches of perfect, beautiful bead and I'm standing there thinking, you bastard... >:( |
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Title: Re: Running hot? Post by verslagen1 on 08/29/15 at 13:22:13 64787974787B170 wrote:
Hell if I did it no one would buy that carp No the company I work for needs welders all the time. |
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