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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Why it ain't working....... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1440260306 Message started by raydawg on 08/22/15 at 09:18:26 |
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Title: Why it ain't working....... Post by raydawg on 08/22/15 at 09:18:26 Love to hear your thoughts on my theory.... And please extend any you have too! I was thinking about the rise of popularity of two candidates on the outside edge of our political spectrum, Trump and Sanders. At the beginning. both were marginalized by the mainstream operatives, ridiculed for their ideas, instead of entertained with dialogue. However, and I don't think any other explanation exist, a real grassroot groundswell has started at the water coolers, pubs, and soccer matches, of people really finding common ground regarding political/social affairs in our nation. I think the same emotions sparked the Black Lives Matter movement too, knowing the left only gave these folks lip service.... I tried to find a common fault, or link, that I can thread into the tapestry of the fabric that (should) hold our sovereignty together... I went back to the founding fathers. In simple terms our nation was steered early, by what it would become, by mostly a single source.... White male landowners. I really don't want to debate their merits (at this point) but it is easy to see how one common point of view could lead to the perception of promoting their own agenda.... Are we all not guilty of that ourselves? So, through out the progression of growing a new nation based on novel ideas, those who were not of the same inherent breed ( race, gender, faith, etc) begin to experience a growing concern that their own best interest, was not being addressed, as they were not equally represented in the positions, that allowed them to steer our nation/society in a manner they saw as equal, and fair.... These folks organized accordingly. Looking to insert, and extend, their power into the process, by their commonality of breed. Exampled by all the caucuses, and lobbying groups, who are agenda, or breed based/driven, the very thing they seek to promotes, their OWN needs first.... Was/is the driving factor, that was charged against the White male landowner, and gave rise for the need of special interest groups. So, I am seeing we are trying to "fix" a system using the very tool, that broke the system, in the first place.... It leads to societal fragmentation, infighting, and just a bunch of toxic emotions, as we all seek to assure our piece of the pie, instead of making sure our neighbor has a bite first.... Furthermore, I don't think this is the hoped for results, I just think its one of the hurdles of a democracy, as freedom not extended to all, is freedom not available to anyone. When government is used as a tool to restrict any citizens rights to/of freedom, like freedom of speech, even tho the words are ugly, it has crossed over a proverbial line, and now is in conflict with itself... We didn't awaken to this problem overnight, it has been a gradual decent, as we have used our freedoms, to impose our beliefs, like trying to level the playing field for all (sounds good, eh?) on others, at the cost of impinging on their freedom(s). I think this is why Trump and Sanders are enjoying such a success.... It is not that their message is the answer, no, but I think it is removing some of the protocol that has hamstrung dialogue on discussing some of the issues, and concerns, of so many people.... Without charging them of character deficit, for asking a question about any given concern they might have. Nothing is taboo, if its honest, the truth can never be denied, even tho constrained, it will consume too much energy, wasted, in trying to squash it, opportunity to repair and nurture a democracy, lost...... Do I make any sense? |
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Title: Re: Why it ain't working....... Post by old.indian on 08/22/15 at 11:05:29 The political party bosses will do what they want, regardless of the will of the rank and file... :-[ Actual example of such from 2008 here in New Mexico... Democratic party primary. In those area where Obama had the highest support there was a "shortage" of ballots and few voting places. There were no shortages in those areas where Hillary had the most backers.. It should also be noted that the "party leaders" were "re-elected " ::) (?) after the primary.... I have no doubt that the same manipulations take place on the other side of the aisle. I notice that Hillary is raising quite a few tens of millions at "invitation only / $2,700 a plate" gatherings in the Hamptons, Martha's Vineyard, Park City, Utah etc.... For a candidate who claims to want to help the "middle class", she certainly does spend a lot of time smoozing with the upper part of the 1%. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Why it ain't working....... Post by thumperclone on 08/22/15 at 22:30:12 ray me> just so tired of all the BS that is spruing from the blow hole |
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Title: Re: Why it ain't working....... Post by FerousBastard on 08/23/15 at 01:50:02 The rise of grassroots movements and free standing politicians in a two chamber political system just goes to show that the current political oligarchy has become insufficient in our postmodern times. |
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Title: Re: Why it ain't working....... Post by raydawg on 08/23/15 at 10:08:15 6C4F58455F59684B595E4B584E2A0 wrote:
I would agree our 3 tier system, the judicial, has become an extension of the party in power, which would render your two chamber claim validity..... Could you expand on your observation a little more in detail, how you came to this conclusion, I'd love to hear your perspective, THANKS! |
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Title: Re: Why it ain't working....... Post by FerousBastard on 08/23/15 at 12:53:45 72617964617767000 wrote:
You could say that here in Denmark we have a 'two chamber' system as well, Left wing and Right wing like the US's Republicans and Democrats. Difference is each wing has become fragmented into several independent parties. During the last 10 years many mini parties have sprouted up lead by those who felt overlooked or didn't fit their old party. This fragmentation has lead to the point where a viable government has a very hard time forming, our current government consists of a single party in strong minority, which needs to count on the help of free standing parties to gain any type of leverage. From the outside it is quite clear to see that this same fragmentation is also happening in the US, slowly, and would have happened more already if the two chamber system wasn't so deeply engrained in the US legislation. What this fragmentation tells me, is that society is only going to get even more nuanced, especially with information technology becoming even more widespread. A system that divides an increasingly nuanced population into two groups is going to struggle and as such will become increasingly insufficient. |
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Title: Re: Why it ain't working....... Post by raydawg on 08/23/15 at 15:35:03 2506110C161021021017021107630 wrote:
You could say that here in Denmark we have a 'two chamber' system as well, Left wing and Right wing like the US's Republicans and Democrats. Difference is each wing has become fragmented into several independent parties. During the last 10 years many mini parties have sprouted up lead by those who felt overlooked or didn't fit their old party. This fragmentation has lead to the point where a viable government has a very hard time forming, our current government consists of a single party in strong minority, which needs to count on the help of free standing parties to gain any type of leverage. From the outside it is quite clear to see that this same fragmentation is also happening in the US, slowly, and would have happened more already if the two chamber system wasn't so deeply engrained in the US legislation. What this fragmentation tells me, is that society is only going to get even more nuanced, especially with information technology becoming even more widespread. A system that divides an increasingly nuanced population into two groups is going to struggle and as such will become increasingly insufficient. [/quote] I agree. The current tend is not sustainable, further erosion, decay, will result. Society will become hyper-two tier, wealthy, and poor, as the degrees of separation melt down into two distinct societies. If one was to stop and consider the demise of many failed systems in the past, it would seem most reached this plateau before collapse..... |
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