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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bang for the buck - what next? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1439823748 Message started by wombat1369 on 08/17/15 at 08:02:27 |
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Title: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by wombat1369 on 08/17/15 at 08:02:27 I've been lurking around the forums for a couple of months now and want to say thanks to everyone for providing such great info. I have a 2008 S40 with about 4700 miles on it. The only mod I've done so far is a Dyna muffler. The bike is running fine with the new muffler, didn't have to do a thing to the carb, it's still stock. Can't say I really notice much performance improvement, but it sounds better. If anything the afterfires are fewer. So anyway I'd like to get some more power without spending a lot of money or tons or time. Probably the type of stuff people refer to as Stage 1. I know I could start messing with the stock carb next. But then I start thinking if I'm going to spend several hours tweaking the stock carb maybe those hours would be better spent just installing a new carb? From what I've read it seems 36mm Mikuni VM kit from Lancer (if they're still available) would be the next logical thing to do? Thanks in advance. -Wombat1369 |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Serowbot on 08/17/15 at 08:25:56 A K/N slip-in filter and rejet if needed... If you want to go further, it get's pricey... I would go with a Stage 2 cam, rather than a carb... A carb might give a fraction better throttle response, but won't make more power without a cam or more compression... This bike is not a firebreather... if you want real go, you need a different bike... ..a $100 will get you a couple of ponies... ...a $1000 might get you 10hp... A Ninja 300 will still smoke you... :-?... A Ninja 500 will humiliate you... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Dave on 08/17/15 at 08:48:39 The stock carb is fine for some minor mods.....and money is better spent elsewhere in looking for "bang for buck" mods. If I was looking for cheap thrills.....I would go this way: 1) K&N filter in the stock airbox, Stage 1 cam, jet carb and do spacer mod. 2) If you or a friend is handy with a die grinder....remove the header and trim away some of the donut in the exhaust port. Don't remove the entire thing....trim it back about 30% and round the sharp edge. Make sure the exhaust valves are is closed and stuff some rages in there to keep the grit out when you are grinding. The next step up from there would be a Wiseco Piston and the Stage 3 cam......then beyond that it is time for the Mikuni Round Slide. You can spend close to $ 1,000 taking the bike from 30 HP up to a bit over 40 HP. It does make a noticeable difference in how the bike runs and it will be more responsive - but it will never be fast. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Serowbot on 08/17/15 at 09:09:24 Dave's right.. Stage 3 cam is the middle ground cam... ...(it should be called Stage 2)... :-/... |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Dave on 08/17/15 at 09:17:02 Stage 1 is a nice cam, easy going. Stage 2 is the hotter cam. Still not a race cam and very ridable. Stage 3 came along later....when Lancer combined the duration of the Stage 1 cam withe the lift of the Stage 2 cam. I rode my bike for a year with the Stage 1 cam, Wiseco 95mm, some head porting work, a DYNA mufflerand the stock carb.....and it ran really nicely. The next year I changed to the Mikuni Round Slide when I was doing the Cafe' conversion. I don't know if the carb added a more than just a bit of top end power - but when you move the throttle grip the engine does respond a couple millisecond faster! |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/15 at 10:26:48 140C0E0102175250555A630 wrote:
if you've tuned your bike to the nth degree, then you're at stage 1. more power now will cost mpg w/out an upgrade in hardware. Maybe a drop in K&N or remove the airbox altogether and go pod with all it's headaches. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Ed L. on 08/17/15 at 10:51:20 I'm with the rest of the bunch, change out the muffler, drop in a K+N filter rejet up to a 152.5 main and do the white spacer thing. I swiss cheesed the airbox door with a 1/2 inch drill on my bike, don't know if it helped but it was a fun project for a rainy day. Thinking about turning the right side panel into a air scoup but haven't gotten around to it yet. After that it gets a little more labor and cash intensive. Grinding the exhaust port out does help and if you get a chance to pull the left side cover of the engine slot the mounting holes of the ignition sensor. It gives about 2 1/2 to 3 degrees advance on the timing. Doesn't sound like much but it added about 150 more to my top rpm. A stage 1 cam, 155 main and all the other mods will take the motor about as far as it can go with the stock carb. I'm already there on my '02 which is putting out all the umpf I need for just having fun. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Tocsik on 08/17/15 at 13:53:58 If you already have a Dyna and do the K&N drop-in, is there enough difference in air flow to need a rejet? Also, what's up with the price of that filter?! |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Dave on 08/17/15 at 18:20:43 Ed: You recommend jet sizes like they are some way of more power....they could be.....but only if they are the correct size to get the fuel mixture correct. My bike with the stock carb, Stage 1 Cam, Wiseco Piston, mild porting and a Dyna exhaust ran best with a #150 main, #50 pilot and 2 washers on the needle. I had an exhaust sensor and gauge, and it verified the mixture was correct....I did try jets up to a #155 main and #52.5 pilot, and they were too rich for me. If you run jets that are too big you will only get poor mileage......and less HP. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by chzeckmate on 08/17/15 at 19:32:14 The quest for more power, in my humble experience, too often becomes endless and is usually filled with disappointment and fish stories. You can replace all the hard parts you want, but in the end you always wonder if you could squeeze just a little more power by "adding this" or "deleting that". The work is generally very satisfying, but the results...sometimes, not so much. The most satisfying thing you can do is the stuff you can see and hear (chome and grunt). Unless you're willing to spend some serious scratch you most likely won't feel a whole lot of difference, with the exception of those who are susceptible to the placebo effect. I decided a long time ago that I would always have at least two bikes. I'd have a cruiser for my laid back side and a sport bike for my suicidal side. A dirt bike or dual is nice to keep around too, but time and age doesn't permit me the real enjoyment of those anymore. You can spend a lot of money to make your bike go 10 mph faster and shave two seconds off your quarter mile, but don't do it unless you really enjoy the work of modding your machine. The results when measured in real numbers aren't worth the cash. I really enjoy the work. It's very soothing to me to roll my gang box up next to my bike(s) and get to work. I love the sound of power tools, ratchets, and the clang of metal. That's why I do what I do....just my 2˘ |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/15 at 19:53:21 The fun is in accelerating out of a corner. As you get better the exit speeds increase. I did the cam and exhaust and jets,,, and it was quicker.. I didn't dig it stock, but the stuff you have already, sounds like you've got it running good. And the sound has to be much better than stock. I had certain roads and I'd play with the curves. The thing WILL grind pegs. You want instant free HP to accelerate? Lose weight. I've heard about drag racers having parts acid dipped. You lost weight swapping out exhaust. It really was fun hitting a curve and watching the entrance line and the apex and noting the exit speed,, |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by chzeckmate on 08/17/15 at 20:03:14 392620273A3D0C3C0C34262A61530 wrote:
+1...I have been on a strict diet for the last four months and I've lost 30 pounds. The improvement in the acceleration is very noticeable. 10 pounds to go on my goal...too bad I can't acid dip myself lol |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Ed L. on 08/17/15 at 20:04:40 Dave, don't know why but my '02 runs it's best with a 155 main. I'm at sea level in coastal Florida. I had a 152.5 in it before the stage 1 cam change and it ran great. After changing out the cam the bike was running lean with a lot of popping with throttle shutdown and hard starting. The pipe would blue all the way down to the bottom bend in a short ride. I did loose some gas milage with the 155 main but the carb tuned where it should be, not way out of recommended settings. Each bike tunes a little different and I know a 155 main is not recommended but the bike seems to run better with the bigger jet. When I say better I'm talking about a higher rpm shift point thru the gears, easier starting and less backfiring and popping plus less blueing on the exhaust pipe. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Dave on 08/18/15 at 05:28:21 ED: If you tested and tried and found out what works best on your bike....Cool. I just wanted to be sure that folks understood that putting in bigger jets may not be the best thing for their bike. On mine I discovered the larger jets made the bike run too rich, and I had the most success by backing off the main jet size and richening up the mid range by raising the carb needle (2 washers instead of 3). Here is the link to my O2 sensor and jetting procedure....this is what worked best for me. The best fuel mileage occurs at 14.7 parts of air for each part fuel (weight)....while the most power comes from 12.5 parts air to each part fuel. I jetted for somewhere between those 2 limits so that I could get good power and mileage.....a compromise. The most important part was that I was able to eliminate the surging at light throttle settings, as that is really annoying. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1348491882 |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Ed L. on 08/18/15 at 06:47:15 Good stuff, thanks for the link. I'm in total aggrement that a 155 is bigger than needed for most. I tend to tune engines a little on the rich side and use the seat of the pants method along with spark plug readings. Probably why I prefer the larger jet. An O2 sensor along with an emmission test would be a big help fine tuning the carb. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by wombat1369 on 08/18/15 at 12:55:34 Thanks to all for your input. The consensus says not much more power to wring out of the bike without spending significant $$ and time. Same with my VW GTI - an ECU upgrade and better air intake gives a good initial bump in torque/HP, but to take it to the next level means replacing the turbo and plumbing, headers/exhaust upgrade, adding oil coolers, etc. As much as I can picture myself doing serious wrench work with the bike's cam and exhaust port, past experience has shown most of my projects take longer than anticipated. Just ask the wife about any of my 2-hour Saturday morning projects that end-up taking me all weekend. For now I'll just get a better air filter, mess around with the air box door, and do the white spacer mod. As Tocsik asked, will those mods require a change in the carb jets? Thanks, -Wombat1369 |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Dave on 08/18/15 at 13:11:21 140C0E0102175250555A630 wrote:
There is no standard answer to that. If the bike is borderline lean or rich - then changes may push it over the edge and require a jetting change. If the mixture is rich and the changes lean it out a bit.....it will actually run better when you are done (and vice versa). The white spacer mod richens the mid range fuel mixture....and helps a bike that is otherwise stock. The white spacer mod helped my bike run a lot smoother, and when I test rode a couple of used bikes I could tell they would have benefitted as well....they had the lean surge when accelerating slowly (like riding through a school zone or past the Police station). |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by chzeckmate on 08/18/15 at 19:15:11 5840424D4E5B1E1C19162F0 wrote:
Dave's right, you'll know after you get it done if you need to change jets. There's a fair chance you will. It very easy to do so don't let that stop you. I might advise you not to drill your air box door. I would suggest you just remove it. It accomplishes the same thing while allowing you the option to put things back the way they were. I'm using the high performance air filter outlined here http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1183640744 and my door is off. I'm quite pleased with the results. Good luck, take pics, and please report back. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by wombat1369 on 09/01/15 at 16:14:32 This is where I'm at now: - Dyna Muffler - Home made air filter (from provided link) - Air box door removed - Idle mixture screw plug removed That made the bike have the lean surge Dave mentioned. To take care of the surging the white spacer mod is recommended? Does that require removing the carb? Thanks, -Wombat1369 |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by Dave on 09/01/15 at 19:24:24 40585A5556430604010E370 wrote:
Some folks can turn the carb sideways and take the top off and get the slide out.......When I have to work on the needle/spacer I have always just removed the carb so I can work on it easier. |
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Title: Re: Bang for the buck - what next? Post by verslagen1 on 09/01/15 at 19:46:07 18232E3928243F39222A27384B0 wrote:
Some folks can turn the carb sideways and take the top off and get the slide out.......When I have to work on the needle/spacer I have always just removed the carb so I can work on it easier.[/quote] On a stock bike you can take the top off the carb and pull the slide out, don't even have to turn it. just have to take the tank and seat off. |
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