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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> LISTEN UP......!!!! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1439513343 Message started by raydawg on 08/13/15 at 17:49:03 |
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Title: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by raydawg on 08/13/15 at 17:49:03 Just got home, had to stay over at work.... Just missed the ferry leaving, had to wait another 30 minutes to catch the next ride. It put me up toward the front of the motorcycles, as they filed in behind me... Had about 30 or so bikes load, so they loaded us 4 abreast once on the ferry, as the cars lining up were 2 hours deep ( wait time, normally we load side by side, motorcycles ) Anyway, this put me along side a young guy on a go fast yammie. I have seen him before, but didn't know him personally. He was joking it up just minutes before we disembarked, with a walk on passenger, they sorta fan through us, and get to walk off first. Once the gangway is cleared of pedestrians, they let us go.... Here is where it gets stupid.... What is it about bike riders that they have to be first, the fastest, the loudest? He rocketed out of there and weaved between other bikes to gain the lead as we entered hard land... Up a hill, with a bend, and into a small commercial area of a few businesses.... Well of course an older man made a left hand turn in front of the charging bikes,,,,,, The kid never hit his brakes... He T-boned the SUV dead midside and the yammie launched him.... It was ugly, but most of all......AVOIDABLE!!!! I watch this every fricken day, its russian roulette, and I think I know who is next.... Please guys, I believe for the most part, savage blokes ain't speedheads, its not our nature, and our ride testifies to that, but even this little beast, if ridden stupidly, can raise our exposure to consequences significantly.... I hate split seconds, not enuff time to really get another chance....so, give your self some more time to be able to adjust for the mental lapse, or mistakes, of others.... Our EGO ain't get'n stroked if we is laying on the pavement, not to mention we now just put the heart hurt on those who love and care about us.... Sorry for the rant, but I am made as helll right this moment. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 08/13/15 at 18:20:45 Actuarial data is telling us something. My liability card in Texas is $100 per year (I am in my early 60s -- that figures in.) The Savage is currently the 4th least likely to be in an accident of all M/C models sold in the US. That is a lot of different motorcycles to be near the top of, safety-wise. Okay. It isn't because of having the best braking or handling. It's partly because its speed is limited. It isn't because it is particularly easy to see, because it isn't. A lot of it must be because of the relatively older age and maturity of the owners compared to the crotch rocket class. And because of their different motivations and style of riding. It is safer compared to heavy cruisers partly because of its light weight and maneuverability. We may assume that a disproportionate number of Savage accidents occur on stripped, bobbed, performance enhanced ones -- not all of them but the ones that are ridden at the balls-out limits of their performance. The rest of them, not ridden like today is a good day to die, would be by definition even safer than the #4 slot on the full list of bikes. So, darn straight: let's be careful and be mindful of the liability of a relatively small, hard to see motorcycle when someone is texting, drinking a Big Gulp, applying makeup and making a left on red. But if you ride a M/C, your safety odds on a Savage are better than they are on most bikes. And that's a good thing. Not worth being complacent about but still a good thing. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Ed L. on 08/13/15 at 18:22:24 Remember as a kid laying in bed at around 2:00 in the morning and heard a bike unscrew the road outside the house. Ran the gears till suddenly there was a thump and then silence. Found out the next day someone turned left in front of him, the bike and rider ended up in the passenger seat. Gotta be careful and ride sane. We all have bad memories tucked in our brains. :( |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 08/13/15 at 18:57:05 Other safety factors at work: A lot of Savages are ridden by women, who, as a class, don't have the testosterone issues of men, and, as a class, are probably more likely than young men to get MSF training and pay attention to it. Even with guys, the popularity of the Savage as an entry level bike probably associates it with more rider training and a certain caution that comes with knowing you don't quite know what you're doing yet. And as you build up experience, the Savage doesn't encourage insane riding but rather the development of smoothness and competence. These things are wild generalizations, yes, but they are likely in the safety mix. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by springman on 08/13/15 at 21:35:07 I'm right there with you guys. I love riding. Since I was a wee lad I wanted a bike, but never got one. I have been riding now for about 4 years, all on the S40. I always ask God to watch over me and to give me the discipline to not be stupid and let the pride or testosterone take over. I am always a bit scared when I ride and believe that makes me more careful. I think you should love riding if you ride. Otherwise it is not worth the risk. This is what I tell anybody that asks me about riding. I actually discourage it. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Dave on 08/14/15 at 03:51:09 And the amazing thing about our "safe" bike.....is how many bent forks and broken Savage bike parts are for sale on eBay. It appears that most of the accidents on the Savage occur when somebody can't stop in time and hits something really hard while going forward. Make we wonder if the problem is related to it being a bike that new riders buy to learn on....and they learn how to twist the throttle better than they learn to use the brakes.....or if like Raydawg's incident somebody just turned in front of them. (Most likely a few of each). I know when I watch the crash video's on YouTube the majority of the crashes come when bikers ride 2-3 times the speed of the normal traffic, and folks in cars never see the motorcycle that suddenly swoops around the other traffic. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Kris01 on 08/14/15 at 10:44:59 I ride very cautiously at or very near the speed limit. If I rode a Hayabusa I wouldn't change my style of riding. Pavement is unforgiving. You always need to be a few steps ahead of everyone else on the road. Keep a lookout for anything that might happen. I don't mean to be pessimistic but expect a problem to happen. Don't cause the problem, just be wary that something could happen at any second. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/15 at 11:29:18 Who is most likely to have a car turn across them? If you're leading a line of cars, they focus on the cars and hurry across... I didn't see him, officer. Trailing the line of cars, They're frustrated and losing patience and start looking for the rear end of the last car,,, I didn't see him, officer. Know when you're most vulnerable, be pro active, Move around in YOUR lane, a straight line rider can be camouflaged by something moving behind it, change headlight, hit the Pass button, which flicks from low to high beam. IIRC, if you're on high beam, nothing happens. Yeah, THEY should be looking for you. No, you Shouldn't hafta do all that to not get run over. The only thing worse than being Dead Right would be horribly, permanently crippled right. Watch heads, people who want to change lanes or turn are signaling, subtly, I watched front tires and heads in traffic. It's cold comfort that someone else got the ticket when you are injured, dead, or maybe you walk away, but your bike is trashed. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Kris01 on 08/14/15 at 12:23:47 Exactly my point! I stare oncoming drivers right in the eye. It stuns them for just long enough for me to get by unharmed and also I can sort of read their mind and know what their intentions are. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Steve H on 08/15/15 at 08:22:29 I have to think the maturity of many of the riders is a big contributing factor to the low number of accidents. After you've ridden for a good while, you can just feel the stupidity around you. Most times you can spot someone as far away as you can see them. I know they're going to pull on out from that parking lot even though they don't, yet. I know they aren't going to stop at that sign, they don't. You can easily see the one who's going to try to run through that yellow just as it turns red instead of stopping. Head and eye movements, body position, subtle movements of the vehicle, they are all clues. By the time you've ridden as long as many of us have, you just instinctively see it happening. My wife can't believe I'm almost always right when I tell her that car is going to do xxxxx and I am right. If it's the 4th safest bike to be on, I'm also wondering where all these bent, broken and mangled parts on Ebay come from. Maybe they're backing over their bike with their cage? Congrats to everyone for making the Savage/S40 one of the lowest accident bikes around! |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Serowbot on 08/15/15 at 08:42:05 554E17141512101F260 wrote:
Yer' welcome... I also had a hand in bumping up the average,... by crashing every bike I ever owned except for this one... It's just too pretty to crash... ;D... |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Kris01 on 08/15/15 at 10:37:37 I almost skewed the average last night. I hit a very large sewer cap in the dark. It almost threw me off the bike. Thankfully I recovered and stayed upright. It had to be at least 6 inches tall! I saw it but didn't realize it was huge until it was too late! |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Serowbot on 08/15/15 at 14:56:11 That'll jar yer' teeth loose... ;D... |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Kris01 on 08/15/15 at 15:39:06 Pretty much everything was shaken loose! No damage to me or the bike thankfully. ...or my ego! No one was around to see it! ;D |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/15 at 15:57:01 Sticking up like that is a traffic hazard. City, county, someone needs to know and you need to give the rim and tire a good check . |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Kris01 on 08/16/15 at 09:47:49 Yeah, I gave the bike a "once over". No damage. I'll call the city Monday morning. That's pretty unsafe. It might be 3 years before they do anything about it though. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/15 at 09:48:54 162F342E6D6C5D0 wrote:
They should at least paint the curb white. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by 2rr2nv on 08/20/15 at 17:15:16 personally, it's mainly about the rider. some bikes can help or hurt in certain situations, but the rider makes the most difference. case in point, I ride the quickest production bike on the planet and I'm still around. Owned a Busa for 28k miles (and that includes riding in the winter) and not a single incident. I recall a few folks that said I would be dead within a week or two of buying the Busa. gee, still here folks. Now, my wife's bike is definitely a different animal so I adjust to it. yeah, brakes aren't as good, cornering isn't as good, etc, so I give myself more room/time/viewing area to ride safely and get to where I'm going. Yeah, people that are hauling butt or being inattentive (like not planning for the worst) will more than likely wreck or worse. I hope not. just saying. It's not what ya ride, it's THAT you ride. and ride safely!!! Good luck to you all and Enjoy!! Scot "Z" |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Neilap on 08/21/15 at 17:40:49 I hear about it a lot too. thankfully most people in my area are cruiser riders and just stick to being the loudest. I had my run in with a vehicle merging into the road after this elderly woman had even stared right at me and I guess it didnt register that I was there. Payed attention even though the speed limit was roughly 25 and I was maybe 20 feet from her when she just started pulling into the road. instinctively from bicycles I just grabbed my levers as if they were both breaks and it had been raining. front wheel locked up and slammed me to the ground and I skidded about 7-8 feet when I stopped still in a bike riding position on my right side Lol. personally id rather go through that dump again than be stupid and T-boning a car. Although it was fine afterwards. she freaked out as well as other drivers. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by HovisPresley on 08/21/15 at 18:00:55 One bonus for an open-faced helmet is that you can shout very loud!! |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by gizzo on 08/23/15 at 17:03:32 I'm with you there,you know? While I'd hate to go down the road in an open face, if the drivers can see your face, maybe it reminds them that there's a real human person they're about to kill,instead of a robot or something in the full face. I don't know. But they seem to somehow be able to see you better if they can see a face. Something about the brain being hard wired to see faces: you know how you see faces in clouds, Jesus in the toast,that kind of thing? |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 08/23/15 at 17:51:54 Here's another question. I've owned a black LS650 over the years. Lately, I added a white S40 to the garage. Riding city traffic with lots of left turners and cars waiting at stop signs to the right, I have a strong impression from observing driver heads and faces (and behavior) that they see the white bike better. Is the white paint more visible? Are they seeing it and focusing in or double-taking to see if it is a police motorcycle? I don't know. It does occur to me though, that a motorist may quickly glance and see a bike, but not register it... it being smaller than a car and its distance harder to judge. Even for me, I have to hold my attention for a full second or so, say on a bike coming up in a side mirror, in order to digest its distance, speed, and relation to me. For protection from cagers, it's good to have some way to go beyond being in their visual sweep, and to actually cause their eye to stop on you for a moment of "Huh?" if possible. Impractical, I know, but taking gizzo's point above, I'll bet if you rode with long hair and beard, white robes and desert sandals, maybe with a coat hanger holding a white LED halo over your head, everybody would see you, and look at you for a good long time. Just sayin'. Triggering a double take is clearly the idea behind the various blinking and pulsating headlights and brake lights available. High-viz lime green safety vests have the same purpose, but I swear, orange and lime traffic painted objects have become so common that people may have become numb to them. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by 2rr2nv on 08/23/15 at 18:12:37 I've worn Hi-Viz Yellow jackets/suits, etc and it really depends on the other folks. Can't count on the gear to make sure people notice you. Yes it helps, but I never rely on it. I expect people to not see me and adjust riding to that purpose. Heck, I got pulled over going through the main AF base gate, wearing Hi-Viz yellow jacket. after I was directed where to park (no idea why I was singled out), the officer then informed me that I need to wear brightly colored/high contrasting gear while riding. I looked at him, down at my jacket, and then back at him like "WTF???" he THEN noticed what I was wearing and told me to proceed onward. REALLY??? Personally, whatever helps you ride safe, is priceless. whether it's colors, speed, yelling, horns, etc, if it means you get to ride another day, then so be it. Be safe folks. those cagers never truly see you until it's too late. Scot "Z" |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/15 at 18:22:38 If you are concerned that you're not being seen, take action. Be Seen. I've explained how several times, if you haven't seen it, ask, I'll do it again, but I think we should have a defensive driving techniques sticky. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Kris01 on 08/23/15 at 19:34:12 7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:
That's your best course of action. Don't put yourself in harm's way and always make sure you do your best to be visible. Your life is your responsibility! |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/15 at 19:49:12 What do you suggest? |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by kimchris1 on 08/25/15 at 17:08:30 I ride each ride as defensively as I can, yet I still do my best to enjoy the ride. I leave here about 2:45 a.m. 3 days per week, 4:45 a.m. the other 2 days. Their is virtually no traffic going, then on the return trip home their is traffic to contend with. I try and not get caught up in the flow. Their is road construction going on here in our small town. Steel plates, pavement uneven and several places where the entire lane on both sides have been cut thru and a nasty job of paving over it >:( >:(. Lots of impatient folks as this is 2 lane and gets very busy. I am on guard every sec and still have near misses. I watch tires, people faces and just assume that the one may turn out in front of as well as left in front of me. When coming to a stop or slowing down, I pump the brake and it seems to give the person behind me some notice that I will be stopping or slowing down more. I also ride side to side in my lane so I don't become a fixation to the person behind me. We do our best and I hope that others remain safe and get to their destinations and return home safe. Hugs to all.... :-* :-* Kim, Shadow and Genie |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 08/25/15 at 18:02:08 The thing that can drive you nuts in traffic is, with left turners and people on the right at stop signs or pulling out of parking lots/spaces, you can study them and prepare possible escape routes all you want, but there is a time window -- usually about one second from the car moving until you hit it -- when you are exposed. The only way to shrink the window is to control speed and be ready to swerve and or lock up brakes instantly, not after taking time to grab for them. But still there's that little second where the laws of physics can't be overcome... |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/15 at 20:02:46 The top edge of a tire moves faster than the bumper. Change lane position. More than one time if not certain that they see you. Flip headlight from low to high and back.. the Pass button is great, if your bike has one. Don't lead a line of cars and don't be at the end. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by rolavine on 09/15/15 at 20:01:06 425E5F525E5D310 wrote:
I think the number of miles put on is a huge factor, I once read that the safest place to ride a motorcycle in the US based on fatalities was February in Wisconsin. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by KennyG on 09/16/15 at 07:30:22 Sonny, What are 3 least likely bikes to get in an accident. I think I would consider the bike in the number one position for my next ride? Kenny G |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 09/16/15 at 10:07:43 I do not know, Ken. I read about the S40 and its #4 position somewhere in an article about the S40. It is actuarial data, so NHTSA might have the full list buried somewhere, but the easiest way to find it might be to ask your insurance agent, because the ins. industry uses this info to calculate their rates. When you get an insurance quote, they are crunching the overall safety record of the vehicle, your age, your driving record, the region and who knows what else. That is why an 18 year old male in LA with 10 speeding tickets asking for a quote on a Ninja 1000 had better be sitting down! |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by KennyG on 09/16/15 at 21:23:01 Sonny, I am past the 18 year old problems with insurance, but I can remember paying through the nose for insurance when I was young. And again when I was about 35 with a speeding ticket for going a 140 MPH on a long bridge over the Susquehanna River sure adjusted my insurance premiums. LOL It is good to be young and earn a lot of money...... Kenny G |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/15 at 21:49:56 I'm okay with young and broke. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 09/16/15 at 21:57:55 I'm pretty thrilled with old and still alive. ;) |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 09/16/15 at 22:06:08 Back for Kenny: Across the board NHTSA says motorcycle riders are 30X more likely to be in a fatal accident that cagers. Now, if you consider that most fatal accidents happen when a motorcyclist is speeding, riding recklessly, drunk or drugged, or not paying attention him/herself, then you see that the 30X figure is heavily contributed to by those riders, and therefore skewed away from the cautious, disciplined and clear-thinking ones. There's no accurate way to calculate the odds for the reckless or careless rider to be in a fatal accident -- the statistics don't cover enough variables --, but starting from the average of 30X, it could be 100X more likely than a cager, 1000X more likely... who knows? At certain moments with fast wild riding it is easily 1000X. You can feel it. I think that is actually part of the thrill, part of the payoff, that makes people do it. There's just no doubt that, beyond obvious things like training, experience and proper gear, there is a direct correlation between motorcycle accidents and speed. Watch any of the MC accident compilations on youtube. There are endless left turners and pull-out-from-the-righters and door openers and light runners in cars. But in almost every case the bike is going through an intersection at a speed where he cannot react to the offending car. Our training is, slow to 25 when crossing an intersection. How many of us do that? What is at play are the simple, unbreakable laws of physics. It's cold and analytical of the insurance companies, but high and low rates are what they are for a reason. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 09/16/15 at 22:26:50 I am going to put one toe on a soapbox and then walk away, but to me it is criminal for mfgrs to build 200mph motorcycles for riding on the street. The predictable result is, a good percentage of buyers are going to use the performance available on those bikes and die doing it. Laws of physics. These bikes are designed and marketed to go fast and they sell to people who are going to do it. The result is, tombstones, and city auto pounds with sportbikes stacked like cord wood, with the front wheel and forks driven back into the engine and the clip-on bars pointed forward. They hit something solid, unable to slow from high speed. Laws of physics. It's not worth it, unless a death wish dominates your life. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/15 at 00:45:11 Oooh GAAAWD,, |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by rolavine on 09/17/15 at 11:12:26 My last bike was a 160mph FJR1300. I managed to never go that fast, even though the bike showed no signs of distress, whatsoever, in several exploits well above the ton. In addition, the suspension, engine, and brakes on that bike worked so well, fuel injection created rock stable response to the throttle in conjunction with liquid cooling, so once warm it was always the same response, the fairing protected you from the blast so well, that these combinations of advantages make the bike safer than my savage at the same speed. Subjectively, I'd say the FJR was as safe as a Savage when it was going 40mph faster. Still leaves you a valid point, but I suppose from a sport bikers point of view they might say that bikes like our savages should be banned as unsafe, under-powered and inconsistent. Don't get me wrong, I love my savage, it's so darned agricultural! |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 09/17/15 at 11:37:23 Rolavine, your point is entirely valid, too. Imagine a Sav with the brakes, suspension and handling of a good literbike. And a taller 5th gear... it would be a better and safer machine. And it's also true that the weakest link in the chain, with any accident on any bike, is rider behavior. I guess my idea is limited to, if you sell a machine gun to a monkey, you get a monkey with a machine gun... and when the cordite smoke clears you really wish the monkey'd had a single shot BB gun instead. :-X |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 09/17/15 at 12:28:34 I have a friend in Austin with a BMW K1600. If I enthuse about any other bike he just shakes his head. Far as he's concerned, he's "there", and maybe he's right. He joyfully rides it all over the continent. I am pretty much disarmed in any argument about it, except for ribbing him about the money it costs him, which for him is not a factor... |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Dave on 09/17/15 at 13:59:31 7C60616C60630F0 wrote:
Around here they tease the BMW folks - cause all their clothes match the bike! 8-) |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Sonny on 09/17/15 at 14:11:05 Yeah... they're snooty, too. The old boxer twin long distance riders were cut from strong cloth, some real road dogs. But nowadays a vanishing breed. That K1600 is as complex as a Swiss watch or an F-35 fighter. I doubt any owner does his/her own wrenching -- it's a dealer $erviced bike. But it is a pinnacle of refinement and performance in its class of bikes. Nice ride if you can afford it. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by rolavine on 09/17/15 at 15:48:28 3925242925264A0 wrote:
rolavine... I remember one day on my 50 mile curvy rural ride home from work I ended up behind a fellow and his girl, on a brand new BMW R bike with brand new shiny gear. He was incapable of keeping his rig on it's side of the road even though going pretty slow. I considered passing him on my Yamaha Majesty Scooter, but instead stayed behind while reviewing first aid and CPR. This friend of yours is prob a fantastic rider, and the K1600 is a hella bike, but the rider makes all the difference in the world. |
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Title: Re: LISTEN UP......!!!! Post by Rylee on 09/22/15 at 07:51:09 I owned an R1, sportster 1200 and a Savage all at once and the insurance for a 37 ya old male in a decent zip code went as follows R1 $212 a month Harley $103 a month Savage $265 a year Needless to say I didn't keep the R1 for very long. All the bikes had the same coverage and it was not the minimum required by California. Best part was I rode the most aggressive while on the savage due to its narrow lane split abilities. Insurance is a pretty new thing to me since I moved to Cali. Though I lived in Alabama I was on the border to Florida and worked in florida so I had my bikes registered there so I didn't have to have insurance. You just had good health insurance and rode more aware knowing if you wrecked it was your dollar |
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