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Message started by Paraquat on 08/11/15 at 13:26:54

Title: ATF denies being an agency
Post by Paraquat on 08/11/15 at 13:26:54

ATF Denies Being an ‘Agency’ to Avoid FOIA Compliance Requirements
By David Codrea on August 11, 2015

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ScreenHunter_12-Aug.-10-17.29.jpg

A legal response filed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives claims a Freedom of Information Act-related complaint improperly targets them. “The ATF is not an ‘agency’ within the meaning of the F.O.I.A., 5 U.S.C. § 552 (f) (1), and is, therefore, not a proper party defendant,” the response claims . . .

The complaint, filed June 23 in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, seeks an order to compel the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to comply with a Freedom of Information Act request filed in March and ignored in violation of federal law. The FOIA sought copies of policies and rulings relied on in enforcement and determination actions.

The complaint was filed by Tucson attorney David T. Hardy. Plaintiffs include this correspondent, firearms designer and president of Historic Arms, LLC, Len Savage, and the FFL Defense Research Center. The information, as noted in the announcement of the lawsuit, is being sought to ensure consistency in rulings, policies and compliance enforcement.

“Ok, I’ll bite,” Savage responded upon learning of the government’s defense argument. “If, as they claim, they are not an agency under Title 5 FOIA, then why do they have a disclosure division? How is an FFL supposed to comply with ATF policy that is kept secret? Perhaps that’s the point, to not be able to comply?”

Indeed, if it is not an “agency,” why does ATF claim it is one in its fiscal 2016 Congressional budget submission?

“Established as an independent Bureau in 1972, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is the Federal agency charged with enforcing the Gun Control Act (GCA) and the National Firearms Act (NFA),” ATF asserts in its overview/introduction. “ATF’s FY 2016 budget request … is focused on providing … the core resources necessary to advance the agency’s mission to reduce violent crime.”

“The agency has developed strategies to address violent crime spikes and takes the lead role in operations that weaken and dismantle armed violent criminal organizations in,” ATF elaborates.

“ATF is the only agency with the responsibility and authority to inspect the storage of explosives by Federal explosives licensees and to track thefts, losses, and recoveries of explosives,” the age… uh … bureau adds. “Because of its licensing authority, ATF is the only Federal agency authorized regular access to these records.

“ATF also participates in other multi-agency efforts,” the budget justification continues. “ATF was officially identified to lead the DOJ efforts to manage [Emergency Support Function] #13 … to support incident operations, consistent with Federal agency authorities and resource availability.”

They’ve even “developed a Performance Measurement Index tool that helps facilitate informed decision making regarding the Agency’s priorities, activities, and resources. And then of course, they directly address the issue of their FOIA obligations on their website. Guess how they refer to themselves:

Like all federal agencies, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) generally is required under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to disclose records requested in writing by any person. However, agencies may withhold information pursuant to nine exemptions and three exclusions contained in the statute. The FOIA applies only to federal agencies and does not create a right of access to records held by Congress, the courts, or by state or local government agencies. Each state has its own public access laws that should be consulted for access to state and local records.

Not to beat this to death, but if we’re to believe ATF lawyers (and why wouldn’t we?), his bio page shows Acting Director Thomas Brandon is either inflating his importance or he doesn’t understand what he’s in charge of. And if you scroll down there a bit, ditto for his Young Turk.

It looks like an agency, walks like an agency and quacks like an agency. It calls its field operatives “agents,” not “bureaucrats.” It’s an agency when it wants to be, when there’s something to gain, like an approved budget, or more power and prestige. When that’s perceived as a liability, when there’s something to hide, something to stonewall, something to lose, they all of a sudden become something else.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/david-codrea/atf-denies-being-an-agency-to-avoid-foia-compliance-requirements/

--Steve

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by Pine on 08/11/15 at 13:40:38

Nice catch... more power being held by DC.

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by MnSpring on 08/11/15 at 15:05:55

“ … consistency in rulings, policies …”

Is the, FARTHEST, Thing from ANY Agent,
working for the BATFE’s, mind.

Ask Anyone, who has/had, or works for someone who has had, a FFL.

Eric Holder, must have told them what to do on this one !

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/15 at 20:50:23

where's the left? Another
Government can do no wrong?

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by Serowbot on 08/12/15 at 06:49:01

They are a bureau,... which is a tall dresser...
That explains the height requirement and snappy outfits... ;D...
Somebody get this man some better eye-holes... :-?...
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ATF1-copy.jpg

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by oldNslow on 08/12/15 at 07:03:05

Quote:

ATF Denies Being an ‘Agency’

Well, that's just about the first time they've ever been honest. They are not an "agency". They are a state sanctioned criminal enterprise. They are murders( Waco, Ruby Ridge). Accessories to Murder (Fast and Furious) and totally inept and incompetent as an investigative outfit. Remember the Atlanta Olympic bombing and that poor guy Richard Jewell who they were convinced was the perp, and whose life they essentially ruined, while the real bomber ran around in the woods for about five years till a local cop caught him.

The whole sorry outfit needs to be defunded and dissapeared.

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by Paraquat on 08/12/15 at 09:22:29

Some of the best replies on other forums:

Quote:

If they're not a regulatory agency, then their rulings have no power

Quote:

I guess it's a knitting club.

Quote:

Reminds me of the Australian Standards currently converting to AUS/NZ standard.
Many agencies here particularly Workcover your DPI run prosecutions based on the standards.
Trouble is while talking to the head of Standards Australia I found out they are not legally enforceable being completely voluntary.

How you get an AUS Standard you produce an item draw up a paper specifying its use properties etc then apply pay the fee Bob's your uncle Fanny's your aunt you now possess an AUS standard.

A business can produce or request an item produced to the standard but does not have to legally. You should have heard the "Whaaaat" when I explained this to a Safety Inspector no doubt the legal department got a call as they had been basing prosecutions on a Standard that legally has no effect maybe that's why they are redrafting all the standards.

Oh, and OldNSlow, don't forget the time they abused a mentally retarded person in one of their operations and then arrested him when they were done using him.

--Steve

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/15 at 15:25:40

1927262A3824254B0 wrote:

Quote:

ATF Denies Being an ‘Agency’

Best laugh all day..

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by MnSpring on 08/12/15 at 16:36:09

About 10 + years ago, a Nephew, went to 4 years of, ‘Law Enforcement’ school.

When Graduation comes, everyone, scrambles, for a Job.

Of ALL, the jobs, of ALL, the positions, of ALL the available positions, of All the interviews, of All acceptances.

The ATF, is at the VERY BOTTOM.

To get a Job their, is a Last Resort !!!!!!!!!

If, NO ONE ELSE, will take you,
"They Will”

Title: Re: ATF denies being an agency
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/15 at 18:31:44

To get a Job their, is a Last Resort...