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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Second Savage /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1439188292 Message started by Sonny on 08/09/15 at 23:31:31 |
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Title: Second Savage Post by Sonny on 08/09/15 at 23:31:31 I just acquired a clean white 2007 S40 with 6100mi for $1600 to go with my black '87 Savage. Barring any secrets lurking, it is in much better overall condition than my beloved '87. Will be great to fully get to know the ergonomic differences and the benefit or lack thereof of the 5th cog, though I don't expect much on that score. But regardless, it's fixin to be husband and wife in the wind together around here, wahoo... :D |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by jcstokes on 08/10/15 at 03:01:10 That was one of the better factory colours, I'm sure you and your wife will enjoy it. The fifth cog will drop the revs 3 to five hundred at 60 mph |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Dave on 08/10/15 at 04:12:29 The chart Serowbot posted shows that at 6,500 rpm the 4 speed bike goes 94.3 mph....the 5 speed bike goes 97.3 mph. At 60 mph the 4 speed bike will be turning 4,135 rpm.....the 5 speed bike will be turning 4,008 rpm. The drop in rpm is 127 rpm - not much! |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by FerousBastard on 08/10/15 at 04:32:54 Congrats, will be pretty cool to hear what differences you find, other than the extra gear. |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by jcstokes on 08/10/15 at 23:16:24 Maybe my Taiwanese rev counter is wrong, or would upping from the stock tyre to the 140/90 rear change things? |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Sonny on 08/10/15 at 23:41:47 4A4353544F4B4553200 wrote:
You go faster at a given RPM if the circumference of the tire is larger. But examining the rpm/speed graphs you can see that 4th gear on the 4 speed is taller than 4th on the 5 speed. Which was a BS engineering decision, as what the original Savage needed was the same ratio in 4th and a substantially taller ratio for 5th. Which they did not give us. The real payoff would have been a comfortably lower rpm at 60 and 65 for long rides, not a higher top speed. Maybe they decided if they built a 110 - 120mph Savage people would crash & burn, which some doubtless would... |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/15 at 08:22:01 Which was a BS engineering decision, as what the original Savage needed was the same ratio in 4th and a substantially taller ratio for 5th. Which they did not give us. The real payoff would have been a comfortably lower rpm at 60 and 65 for long rides, not a higher top speed. I do agree about the RPM/65MPH thing. The HP is what it is, gearing , I agree, should have been different, but, I can't do the math, but I DO know it,, HP= work over time. So, work is moving a mass a distance. In this case, because of drag, The Mass might as well get heavier, horsepower requirements to reach speeds increase at a non linear rate, I THINK. BUT, if they had delivered a better setup transmission, I think some of these guys would get it to run up in the 100 mph without too much. But , the Kawasaki 750LTD, vertical twin, stock, I don't think it broke 110 with me laying on it, tucked doesn't begin to cover it. |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Sonny on 08/11/15 at 08:45:41 Yep, all that is in the mix. I don't know if it goes up logarithmically, but drag at 70 is substantially higher than at 60. It may be Suzuki tried a taller 5th and it was too much strain on the engine. The fact they lowered the 4th ratio a little when adding the 5th gear is telling. RYCA folks with the chain mod and smaller rear sprockets have doubtless explored this territory. But the belt drive is hard to mod. There's not room to enlarge the drive sprocket and making a smaller wheel sprocket would be an expensive mfg. task for the aftermarket. And you'd need a shorter belt. I guess people have looked for other brands' existing parts that would swap out but I'm not aware of any success. |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Dave on 08/11/15 at 09:33:16 Sonny: The Kawasaki EN454 pulley can be machined to fit the front, and it changes the gearing enough to be worthwhile. A stock motor can pull this gearing around well. After doing the front you can do the rear from a KZ750 - but only if you do the front pulley as well can you you use the stock belt. The Double Pulley conversion really needs a modified motor to pull the gearing well in my opinion. The belt is made by Bando and there are other lengths available....but they are pretty expensive and nobody I know has fooled around trying one in a different length. This is my second year riding with the double pulley conversion....and it works fine for me. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1384949185 y |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/15 at 10:13:38 Dave, really cool problem solving. Given parts and machinery availability and a few bikes and a few of you guys, I can't help but believe that there would be some way cool Savages out of that. With every trick to the motor and mods like this,, and of course a couple of chain mods, for comparing, put a few of you guys in a shop, toss in food and leave y'all there till they are done. Attention paid to ditching pounds, instant acceleration gain. Peg location, seating, so many ways to do this bike... and so many have really been done well around here. Still digging that seat pan we just saw.. I like ingenuity... |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Sonny on 08/11/15 at 10:19:25 Dave, I just read your 2013 thread on the pulley conversion. Great piece of work there, and fine photos and reporting on how to make it work. I may find a good machinist and do the Kawasaki front pulley to make life a little easier at 60-65. I greatly admire the true hard core members on this board who work out this kind of thing. Where there's a Willie there's a Waylon... ;-' |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/15 at 13:01:46 And where there is a method There's a methodist.. |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Kris01 on 08/11/15 at 13:44:19 081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:
Correct. Drag quadruples when you double speed. You do the math! ;) |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Sonny on 08/11/15 at 16:10:53 I picked up my white S40 and made the 25mi mixed freeway/city run back to the house very comfortably, good smooth quiet power, no issue but some howl from the belt rubbing the back sprocket. Easy fix. The gear spacing feels too narrow on the 5 speed when you are an early 4spd Savage heathen. The difference between 3rd and 4th is almost a formality. And then there's 5th, a little taller than 4th on the LS650. It's worth having. But they shoulda left the original 4spd ratios alone and added a legit overdrive. The shifting was crisp and positive; I never missed a shift. The suspension and brakes felt solid and smooth, the whole thing is in newish looking condition. The tire wear is all in the middle, the exhaust header is only the palest gold tint at the top. It hasn't been ridden hard. The drag bar feels good good. It has been infernally hot and it hasn't rained in Dallas since the end of June. The last few miles bringing the bike home the sky opened up and downpoured with loud close lightning, turning the dust caked streets into KY jelly. Sopping wet, rain stinging the hell out of my face and I'm just grinning. Rain of Benediction on the new ride. Hey now. |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by jcstokes on 08/11/15 at 16:56:44 It's pleasing to the eye. Perhaps you should contact Dave and see if he will do a run of those pulley's, if enough owners are interested in that mod. |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Kris01 on 08/11/15 at 19:41:27 I tried the front pulley and still don't know what the problem might be! :-/ :'( |
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Title: Re: Second Savage Post by Sonny on 08/13/15 at 22:26:38 People do the darndest things. The idle was a bit high on this S40 I brought home. Turning the handlebar to the right hand stop increased the rpm. Huh? I backed off the idle adjust screw and nothing happened. I looked closer and the throttle wasn't sitting on the idle adjust tang on the carb. The previous owner had apparently adjusted the idle by taking up the cable adjuster on the handlebar! It took about 60 seconds to let the cable out and set the idle right. But, jeez Louise... :P |
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