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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Riding in the rain? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1439089519 Message started by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/08/15 at 20:05:19 |
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Title: Riding in the rain? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/08/15 at 20:05:19 Ok...let's get something out of the way first: I have owned and ridden a Kawasaki KZ 550 for about 3 years out in Colorado....close to 25 yrs ago. I didnt start riding again until I bought my Savage back in May of this year. It's been in pieces for a month while I am driving a Honda CB250 Nighthawk. All told, I would guess that I have less than 3,500 miles driven on a motorcycle in my lifetime. I'm not a complete nooblet, but obviously not an expert in handling a bike in various conditions. With that being said... ...I drove a bike in the rain for the very first time last night. I didnt plan it that way...it was cloudy all day but no rain, the doppler radar in my riding area showed ZERO rain for 150 miles and a 5% chance of any precip at all in my area(I use the Raleigh RDU Aviation weather forecast instead of my local "news" weather). I took the Honda Nighthawk out for a ride at about 11PM like I do most every night when the weather is good. I do roughly 40-50 miles for practice and relaxation. I got 22 miles from home when it just started raining. Not a downpour mind you, but it was a light steady rain. I am not embarrassed to admit I was a bit concerned. I had ZERO experience with wet pavement. None, nada, zip. There are few cars on the road in my rural community that late in the evening, so traffic wasnt an issue. I just didnt like the way the bike cornered at all. Long curves I might normally take at 45, I slowed it down to 30 or so and dropped a gear. The tires didnt feel like they were sticking to the road and I was worried about having the ass end slide out. Once, while stopping for a red light, I had the front tire slip on me just a smidge. I immediately released the brake lever and re-applied it more gently...adding some rear brake as well (yes, I did drop 2 gears during the process of stopping). What can any of you tell me about the correct way to ride on wet pavement or in rainy weather? I wouldnt intentionally ride in the rain...there is no need to....as my bikes are just for fun and I own a cage. PS Can anyone recommend a "sticky" tire brand for me? I'm not worried so much about longevity....I'll likely do less than 1,000 miles a year on any bike I own. A sticky tire with a nice side tread would make me feel a lot better. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/15 at 20:52:41 what tires are you running? How old? How many miles? First rain after a dry spell raises oils and makes traction change. Going slower on wet roads is only prudent.. I started carrying rain gear Everywhere unless it was just impossible for rain. Rain at speed feels like BB's,,, When I'm driving and it starts raining I get in a safe place in traffic and smack the brakes. I wanna KNOW if it's gonna act right. Not recommended for riding. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by gizzo on 08/08/15 at 21:37:48 Sounds like you did the right thing, Stu. I don't love the rain either, it psyches me out. I just slow down, corner slower, leave more braking room between me and cars and take it easy. Weirdly, I feel more confident in the rain on my dirt bike with the knobblies. I guess I'm used to it sliding, but maybe the upright ride position has something to do with it too. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by jcstokes on 08/08/15 at 22:47:39 Yes, light steady rain after dry weather is one of the worst, as it will raise the oils and rubbers deposited on the road without washing them away. As JOG2 and gizzo say, be extra careful and on blacktop beware of smooth shiny spots and try and avoid riding on painted surfaces. Beware of the Savage/S40's rear brake, it is prone to locking if applied violently, and you don't want this to happen in the wet. Try and keep the big gap all around you, but that's not always possible. Have you taken an American MSF course? You will get expert advice. If you wear a full face helmet you can by water repellent products to spray on your visor. Most reasonable quality tyres should be ok in the wet, and an extra sticky one may not help much in absolute desperation, you aren't on a race bike. The more riding experience you get, the better you will be able to deal with wet situations. The stock IRC tyres aren't brilliant in the wet, particularly the rear. If these are still on the bike, contemplate replacing the rear at least. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by digitaltrucker on 08/09/15 at 00:34:35 When I first got my '03 Savage it didn't like wet roads AT ALL. I wound up putting a new set of tires on and discovered that the dealership had installed the rear tire backwards! Gee, I wonder if that had anything to do with it? |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by chzeckmate on 08/09/15 at 00:46:43 My advice, if you want to be more confident in the wet, is to ride in the wet more. Remember the first time you ever rode a motorcycle? You probably were overly careful and gave yourself a lot of room. Do that just in the wet. Eventually you'll intuitively get better and more confident as you understand your bike's proclivities. Not much help, I know, but that's how we improve. I ride my bike like I stole it rain or shine, day or night, but it wasn't always like that. Only after considerable practice. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Dave on 08/09/15 at 05:10:17 If they paint those wide white STOP bars at the intersection, and big arrows on the pavement.....some of those can be incredibly slippery when they are wet. Don't try to brake or turn while your tires are on top of those. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by paulchristi on 08/09/15 at 07:02:29 Good tips all. Sounds like your not planning to ride in the rain, but if you ever do, I'd recommend a windshield. Also, ride toward the fog line when big trucks approach. I used to ride to work nearly every day when I lived on the North Oregon coast, and it sure rains there. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/09/15 at 07:47:03 THere is a curve in Tyler where a railroad track crosses at an angle, As a noob, dry roads, scary. That first time when it was wet was a very focused moment. Challenging situations force us to focus, and drive out all the Will it blend? What's for supper? One of the things I liked about riding was the forced focus. Early on, I Accepted and prepared for getting caught in the rain Later, I would go out and ride, leaving home while it was raining. It can be fun. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by 1st2know on 08/09/15 at 10:43:42 I ride in the rain often, here's what I learned: - Intersections are more slippery - more grease, more painted surfaces. I've slid in to many intersections proving this. - Expect the braking distances to exceed the braking distance of the car in front of you. The 2 second rule becomes the 5 second rule. I always prepare to lane split in the case of a sudden stop. - After a fresh rain on dry pavement, consider pulling over and waiting 30 minutes. - In slippery conditions, ride the speed you're comfortable crashing at. (see above). - Expect both wheels to lock up when braking. - Mud from the road will coat the front rotor, adding seconds to brake bite time.(This is scary) - in wet conditions, perform only one motorcycle move at a time: brake, lean, roll on, roll off - all done as single operations. - When stopped, expect steam to rise from the engine, fogging up your windshield, visor, goggles. - A motorcycle is even more invisible in the rain. I keep my thumb over the horn. - Water will splash up and hit the shins, soaking the calf, which then drips down in to the shoes, soaking the shoes from the inside out. This adds weight to your feet that you didn't start the ride with, so at stops, you'll notice it's harder to flatfoot as well as get your feet back on the pegs when taking off. This can lead to a drop at stop lights, as well as clumsy starts on the green light. - If I'm in the rain, approaching a traffic light where I need to turn, I plan to stop at that intersection, no matter what color the light is when I get there. I don't want to slide out in that intersection just because I may miss the green light. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/09/15 at 19:50:33 All excellent tips and I thank you! Some of you missed that in my original post, I said I was driving the Honda Nighthawk 250...not my Savage. The Honda has a mushy front drum brake. Its also MUCH lighter than the Savage. It just felt like I had zero traction....like I was driving a car on hard packed snow. I wear a 3/4 helmet with a full flip down visor. I use a product called "Brilliantize" on the face shield. It's a plastic cleaner/conditioner/polish that I learned about while I was working as a copier repairman many years ago. The water beaded on the face shield, so vision wasnt an issue. I'm out in farm country here. There are no overpasses or bridges nearby. I guess I could have found a gas station and hung out near the pumps under the awning, but I had no idea if it would get worse, better, or stay the same. Even my smartphone weather app said chance of rain in my area was only 5%. I made it home, I didnt drop the bike, I didnt hit anything....so it's all good. The plan is to drive the 250 and the Savage until Fall and then take the MSC at my local community college. When I go out for my late night rides, I find a large parking lot and I practice very tight U-turns, 25 mph breaking, zig zagging at low speed...stuff like that. Just trying to build up muscle memory and confidence. Riding in the pouring rain on purpose? Not on my To Do list at the moment ;) |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by chzeckmate on 08/09/15 at 21:44:36 At least part of that feeling is psychosomatic. I remember those days. I would strongly encourage you to ride in the rain on purpose. Would you own a pistol for self defense, but not take it to the firing range regularly? I hope not. Let's say you're out riding and a freak storm comes from nowhere. Do you want to be prepared to deal with that or do you want to pull into the breakdown lane and wait who knows how long for the storm to pass? You're already practicing regularly. I say practice for every scenario, not just the ideal scenario. Be prepared...be very prepared. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 08/10/15 at 18:26:55 556A6C6B7671591F0 wrote:
<<looks at my Ruger SP 101 and frowns....>> Ok, chzeck, point taken. >:( |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Sonny on 08/12/15 at 01:11:50 All good tips on the thread here. Mentally, I keep it simple... slow down, increase following distance, tiptoe through turns with a shallow bank angle, stay even farther ahead of the bike than usual in order to do everything extra gently, use both brakes that way not one, expect zero traction and try to stay well inside the envelope of what traction is there. Even at 40, with no face shield it's like being dusted with fine shrapnel, especially going into gusty thunderstorm winds. Which I did today and got the wet-dry-wet clothing thing. Wonderfully cool and refreshing and the BVDs stayed dry. How sweet it is. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/15 at 01:15:37 The majority of injuries are to the face. A modular helmet saved my face. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by chzeckmate on 08/15/15 at 22:45:02 You want to see some wet skills? Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVoXGGXRl5k |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by jcstokes on 08/15/15 at 23:27:43 With respect, those bikes may have ABS, they certainly wouldn't have grabby locky things on the rear, and if we are brutally honest they probably handle a lot better than our bikes at any speed. They probably don't have IRC rear tyres. They are on a well wetted circuit, not just after light to medium rain. No manhole covers and not a lot of white painted surface. Having said that, their skills are far advanced of mine. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by chzeckmate on 08/16/15 at 02:15:03 LOL, yeah...I was mainly just underscoring my point about practicing though. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Steve H on 08/16/15 at 09:48:00 I'm not a big fan of riding in the wet just because its WET and I also don't have a proper rain suit. But, every time I have ever gotten a new bike, I have purposely ridden in the rain to see how it rides and handles the wet. Sooner or later you WILL get wet unless you only ride on 'perfect' sunny days. I had a bike years ago that when it rained, would die within about 5 minutes and wouldn't start again until it dried out. I never did figure out where the water was getting in and causing the problem. The front end gets 'light' on the savage, it's much easier to lock the front wheel in the rain, at least on mine. My back wheel, unlike most, doesn't lock at the meerest hint of braking. They work like they should. It does lock easier in the wet, though. The little ninja just keeps on going. Handling is not much affected at all. It will lock either end just slightly easier than in the dry. The tiny windscreen blows much more wind and water at my upper chest and helmet. It will slide easier in turns which is a little disconcerting until you find out just how much easier. Like everyone has said, watch out for slick tar spots, manhole covers, steel plates, ANY painted surface, concrete is generally much slicker than asphalt. Bridges with steel grating are sometimes like riding on ice. Wind gusts in a storm will try to blow you around. Don't tense up. You are much more a target in the rain. Nobody is expecting a bike to be out 10 minutes after it starts raining. It's harder to see and harder for everyone else out there to see you. The cagers around here seem to have two speeds when it rains, barely moving or wide open. Practice wet riding in a controlled environment if you can...deserted parking lot, deserted back roads, etc. It won't take long to feel confident enough to go in the rain if you have to. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/15 at 10:03:12 444D5D5A41454B5D2E0 wrote:
Grabby, locky can be made much better by using a handheld grinder, cutting grooves in the pad. Reducing contact area. I got rid of almost a third. After that I could actualize mine. Some pressure, some braking, more pressure, more braking, I could modulate pressure, before, it would lock up , had No FEEL, certainly not something that I liked. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by old_rider on 08/16/15 at 21:34:37 Wet smet! The texas SOGGY BOTTOM BOYS RULE!... LOL.... miles and miles on the interstate in pouring down rain..... And the handling...well, no one went down on the wet oily spot... lost a little traction, but didn't go down.... high five on that one! Yeah... I slow down tons when it rains, and tend to spend most of my time really close to the line on the shoulder side of the road.... them cars and trucks like to play silly on you. P.S. I "thought" I had a great suit... Harley supreme rain gear...yeah.... wet is as wet gets..... wet ...... Even tried my military rain gear....same 'o, same o'..... :( |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by chzeckmate on 08/16/15 at 21:47:46 My rain gear will keep me dry unless I'm on a really long ride. After long enough, I think any rain gear is going to let in some water and once a little is in you might as well accept it. I usually don't ride for more than an hour in the wet and it does a good job for that time frame anyway. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by old_rider on 08/16/15 at 21:54:24 Usually play smart here in florida... if report says greater than 30 percent, I keep an eye on the sky. I also keep three or four zip lock quart size baggies on the bike.... for the phone, wallet or any other accessories you keep on you. ;) |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Dave on 08/17/15 at 04:01:27 Tires make a huge difference in the "wet" grip. Most touring or sport touring tires are very good in the rain. I dunno about "cruiser" tires but I suspect they are designed to work in the rain as well. And in most cases when you go for a tire that will last a long time - the rubber tends to be a bit less grippy in the wet. However as a tire ages the rubber becomes less soft and less grippy - wet pavement will be the place where it shows up the most. I have tires on my truck that were made in 2006, and the last couple of years they are horrible on wet pavement. I only drive it when I need to haul something, and I can wait until a dry day to do that.....so I will try and get one more summer out of them. I would not be so bold on my motorcycle....when the back of my truck slips on the wet pavement it is no big deal - it would be a huge problem on my motorcycle. With any tire on your motorcycle and wet pavement....be really careful of the painted lines on the pavement, metal manhole or utility covers, wet leaves, any place with mud/clay on the street, or areas on blacktop where the aggregate is gone or covered with smooth asphalt (just the black asphalt and no grit). |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by koehlerrk on 08/17/15 at 07:54:22 Couple things a fellow biker told me to do in the rain... Joe is in his mid 70s... been riding since he was a teenager. So he's been there, done that, got the scars to prove it. 1. Slow down. 2. Beware painted surfaces. 3. Turn your headlight to hi-beam. 4. If you have the chance, put on bright colored clothes to make yourself more visible. Here's my current rain suit, and it works pretty darn well... and you can see it from a long ways off. ;D http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0095CC390/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=35UHQYSSD57EJ&coliid=I2I7UNYFQJ0VNI&psc=1 |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Ed L. on 08/17/15 at 11:10:02 One thing nobody has mentioned is to really watch out on rail road crossings, some are made with rubberized blocks which turn to grease in the rain. Had problems with them back a few years ago in Pennsylvania, spun a cage around in a 180 just driving over some. Still remember it, wasn't speeding, just making a slow turn in traffic and suddenly Whee around we went. Don't know if they still use them but I would advoid them at all costs if possible on a bike. I carry half chaps to put on my lower legs in a heavy rain. Found out the hard way water runs down my legs and fills up my riding boots. ;) |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by chzeckmate on 08/17/15 at 13:15:22 Every foreign object on the road starts to look like a banana peel to me when it's raining. Dodge what you can and go easy on the stuff you can't. Dave's got the best advice of all...equip your bike with tires that can cope well. Pirelli MT66 are well trusted. My rear tire slipped on oil when it was raining. I was going 50 mph fully leaned over in a right hand curve. I instinctively turned the front wheel in the opposite direction and the Pirelli grabbed at 90 degrees into the slide and put me right again. I'll be putting those on in a month or two when my currents tires are replaced. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Dave on 08/18/15 at 05:09:08 One of the things that Serowbot has brought up before, is that you should not buy a tire that is going to last more than 4-5 years. The rubber ages and it is better to buy a cheaper tire and wear it out in those 4 years and replace it....than it is to buy an expensive tire that will last 8 years of riding (the last 4 years the tire will be aged and it will not be able to provide good traction). If you put a lot of miles on a bike every year....the Michelin Commander might be a good tire for you and will provide some high mileage before it is worn out. Some fellows that go on cross country rides can wear out a tire half way through the trip....and have to get a new tire mounted before they get home! If however you ride 1,000 miles a year.....a less expensive tire that is worn out in 4,000 miles and replaced after 4 years will be a better bet. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by BSTON on 08/18/15 at 07:15:02 Tires, tires, tires. If you're slipping around in the rain like you're on snow then you need to look into new / better tires. I do some amateur car racing (autocross) and I had an old road racing LegGrand. Aluminum monocoque purpose built race car with a CBR1000RR motor. On a normal day if a Corvette ZO6 was running 60 second laps I would be at 51 second laps. As soon as it would start raining though I would get beat by Miatas since I only had Hoosier racing slicks with no tread. That's not even with standing water or puddles. Not knowing the size that you need for your other bike I can't make the best suggestion but I always enjoyed the Avon Storms that I had on my ZZR1200. They took a lot of miles and I never had an issue with grip at any temperature whether it was wet or dry. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Dave on 08/18/15 at 08:14:04 6677706B6A240 wrote:
I believe we are talking about a stock Savage tires. There is a very limited selection of 140-80-15 tires. You can increase your selection by switching to a 130/90-15 - but they are still cruiser tires and don't really have all the cool stuff that the touring or sport touring tires do. I switched to 18" wheels and I have a far better choice available - but for me it really boils down to the Pirelli Sport Demons or Battlax BT45, or maybe the Avon Road Rider...none of which are made in sizes that fit the stock Savage. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by BSTON on 08/18/15 at 08:22:23 0D363B2C3D312A2C373F322D5E0 wrote:
He said he was on his CB250 Nighthawk. |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by Dave on 08/18/15 at 09:21:36 6B66666E606C247E607D61247A7D7C090 wrote:
Well somehow forgot that after 2 pages of discussion. He was on the Nighthawk in his first rain riding, and he wants tire recommendations. But for which bike? I seriously doubt that anybody makes a tire in the sizes for both a Nighthawk and a Savage! |
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Title: Re: Riding in the rain? Post by chzeckmate on 08/18/15 at 19:20:50 ;D |
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