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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Steering damper /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1438554075 Message started by Rylee on 08/02/15 at 15:21:15 |
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Title: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/02/15 at 15:21:15 Can someone provide me with a good picture of the horn bracket? There is no horn currently on my bobber just 3 threaded holes in the frame near the neck. Reason for asking is I just purchased a universal steering get damper. Why you ask? I rode a sportster this weekend that had one thru some canyon roads and the feel was so amazing. Steering was crisp and not labored to control switching back and forth between the turns. I need the photo of the bracket because I'd like to fab up some mounts that could be used by all rather than just weld it to my neck. The steering damper I purchased was $54 off ebay and has an external reservoir, 6 adjustment settings and is 255mm in overall length. I plan to utilize the brake cable boss bolt on the underside of the lower tree and the steering side mount. And I will fab up a plate that bolts to the existing threaded holes in the lower neck. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Kris01 on 08/02/15 at 15:44:15 Try here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199986392 If for no other reason, it's just fun to look at! :D |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by chzeckmate on 08/02/15 at 17:19:53 I'm very interested to see what you come up with. Here are a couple of pics. Hope it helps. http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag28/justin_fisher2/1_zpswb6bzb7s.jpg http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag28/justin_fisher2/2_zpsygofmhpp.jpg |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/02/15 at 20:05:04 I have three threaded holes on the lower brace section of the downtube/neck. I see the two top holes are for the horn any idea what mounts in the lower threaded hole. I'm most likely going to have to drop the bracket and come away from the frame a bit for clearence of the damping rod when the steering is turned to the right. Curious to see how the horn mounts thanks for the pic @chzeckmate |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/02/15 at 20:21:40 So from the looks of the horn location and the relevant space needed I'm going to attempt to make a bracket that utilizes both threaded holes from the horn mount and the lower hole that is not being used and just plugged. I'll make a bracket that uses all three holes and just put longer bolts so you can remount your horn. The damper should be here Thursday or Friday and I'll get it done quick. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/02/15 at 20:25:45 Here is a photo of the damper with dimensions. It uses heims at both mounting points for rotatable movement during steering changes. The rear Mount bracket will simply bolt to my frame mounted plate. Looks easy in my head I'll have more for you guys once I get the damper. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by chzeckmate on 08/02/15 at 22:12:58 Thanks, I'm bristling with anticipation. I've been considering this since the first day I got my S40. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/02/15 at 22:37:22 @chzeckmate I've seen the kits for harleys online and spent over a decade on street bikes so I understand the benefits of a damper just never felt the need to have one on a cruiser before. Though hard tailed my bike has taken a very cafe-ish look in it's build and I revisited the idea of a damper since it would flow with the style of build. It wasn't until riding a buddies bulky 1200 sportster that I realized how much of a positive difference one makes. I was going to simply weld in a bracket until I noticed the thread tapped holes in the frame. Once I realized it was for the horn mount I decided I'd attempt to make a bolt on bracket I've also ordered a cheaper 330mm in length damper that doesn't have an external reservoir and I'll make a bracket for it as well with the same mount point for anyone not wanting to buy the more expensive damper. Both seem to have the same amount of adjustment per the ebay ads I just chose the more costly of the 2 for style preferences. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by chzeckmate on 08/02/15 at 22:54:30 I've owned a lot of bikes and the ones that didn't have dampers didn't need them but this bike is really wonky on the tar snakes and such. I like to ride one handed or with a light touch and you just can't do it with confidence on the cabbage. Our little bike demands constant steering adjustments and that just doesn't feel like cruising to me. I want to cruise and I believe a damper is the answer. I know, I know, I'm going to hear all about fork brace options but if there's a steering damper solution I want that. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/03/15 at 05:40:24 Rylee, You can't compare the handling of one bike design to another, and then assume it's the steering damper that makes it feel more stable. There are so many factors to this equitation; steering geometry, weight distribution, condition (wear) of the suspension components, tires, rider technique - that an apples-to-apples comparison is simply impossible. More likely, the Sportster just handles better than your bike. Unless your bike has wobble (uncontrolled oscillation at the steering head) a steering damper will have no positive effect. Given the steering geometry of the LS650, if you do have wobble, then you have an underlying problem that should be addressed before you start tacking parts onto the bike. In my opinion, a steering damper will take a slow-steering bike that has little bike/rider interaction, and further mute the communication. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/03/15 at 06:09:24 437C7A7D60674F090 wrote:
A steering damper will not make any difference to this situation. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by JutMan on 08/03/15 at 06:16:02 I have considered http://shop.rycamotors.com/fork_brace.html but I am not sure if this adds any stability you are looking for. I have never had a problem riding under 50 mph one handed, but not for an extended amount of time. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Dave on 08/03/15 at 06:45:04 I have never experienced and wobble or oscillations of my forks or steering....which is what a steering damper corrects (Maybe I don't ride aggressive enough....or my fork brace has fixed it). A proper steering damper does almost nothing if the forks are turned slowly - but when the forks are moved quickly form side to side the damper limits how fast and far the forks can oscillate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHsgAX3TBY [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHsgAX3TBY[/media] I have only had 2 things about the chassis on the Savage that I believe are potential issues. 1) The stock rear shocks have very little travel and can bottom out pretty easily on moderate bumps or potholes. I experienced one pothole that gave me that nerve "electrical shock" as my helmet and head compressed my spine. 2) I have read bout others claiming (and occasionally felt) the bike wander around when banked over for high speed sweepers. I really don't ride fast enough to experience that much.....I prefer tight mountain roads where speeds are much slower. The fork brace is supposed to help that - but it could also be chassis or swing arm flex, as the bike really isn't made for that kind of aggressive riding. When I rode MMRanch's 883 Sportster on the Dragon.....I was amazed how nice the bike corners and how easily it steers from side to side. I was really pleasantly surprised at how nicely it rode. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/03/15 at 07:30:17 @Gary and Dave Very good points from both of you. But remember my bike is both longer and lower than a stock bike. My rake geometry though very little has been changed. And my center and weight placement have both been changed. I sit much farther back than stock and with my drop seat deeper in the frame. All changing the characteristics of how my bike handles. Having said all that the main reason I wanted a steering damper is I do a lot of freeway riding and in LA as I'm sure in many places most freeways are sectional cement with rain grooves cut into the lanes. This attributes to a lot of gittery steering movements while traveling down the lane. If adding a damper can subdue that for me it was 50 bucks well spent. I am more than content making a proper bracket and welding it on. I figured since I'm going to do it, and the location the bracket would be in has mount holes anyways why not create the same bracket that can be bolted up. Then if anybody else has had the idea of doing a damper I can provide them with a way to mount it. I'll make a few extras, throw them in an envelope and for let's say 10 bucks I'll throw it in the mail. This was by no means an idea that I felt would make me a bunch of money. And like the tach, oil filler temp gauge and various other products that the savage doesn't really need this is simply an accessory that I have the ability to provide the means to mount it. Do you really need it on a stock bike, no. At most like Dave said on high speed runs it may provide a bit more control but I know deep down it's not really necessary. For me it will serve more of an aesthetic purpose. That and I'm hoping it cures the rain groove bobble on the freeways. I will however follow up with this thread once it's been installed and solid miles have been riden with any positive or negative feedback. I participate in numerous canyon rides and at least 1 long distance ride a month. Seeing how there's no real data on what help if any it would actually provide on the savage I will gladly take the job of being the test subject. Worst case scenario I spent 50 bucks and an hour of my time on something that looks good but serves no purpose. More finances and time have been spent on much less with many a build. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/03/15 at 07:42:13 Rylee, The phenomena you are describing where the tires want to follow undulations in the tarmac is called "tramlining". An explaination can be found here on Wikipedia => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramlining Wobble is a frigging frightening condition that can become violent, leading to a tank slapper. A Steering Damper reduces the causes of wobble - NOT tramlining. Once again, here is a Wikipedia definition of a Steering Damper => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering_damper If you feel that you have modified your bike to the point that you have excessive tramlining, then you need to address that condition. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/03/15 at 07:56:45 @Dave My 883 while still stock was enjoyable to ride thru the canyons. My only dislike was the throttle is very touchy and any bumps or bounces even just slight movement caused me to be jittery on the throttle. As far as the steering went it was fine. I don't know if a damper would have made a difference. But like my current setup on the savage the 1200 I rode was hard tailed with a 5" stretch and 3" drop seat. The bikes handling characteristics were drastically changed. I built the bike for the owner and rode it thru Santiago canyon minus a damper so I had a feel for it. He later installed a kit and after seeing it I asked to do a portion of the ride to see the difference if any. I definitely felt a difference. The flop was all but gone. It laid over smoother and you weren't fighting the steering during switchback transitions. One of the main selling points for most damper companies like ohlins or Scotts is rider fatigue. The damper absorbs front end movements and not the rider. This cuts down on having to ride heavy handed on the bars during long trips (something I have to do because of my setup) and it absorbs smaller imperfections in the road like rain grooves. This is my main focus for the damper. I don't think I'll ever be doing high speed canyon runs, though I've been told I push the bike way further than anyone I ride with say they'd be comfortable doing on a rigid. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/03/15 at 08:02:17 @Gary I'm familiar with that Gary. We always called it nibbling. When I had the knobby tire on the front it was really bad, but due largely to the knobbed tread pattern. When I swapped over to the firestone it all but solved the issue. I still get a little nibble now though. I just ride more relaxed on the grips so I'm not fighting it and so the bike can track how it wants. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by chzeckmate on 08/03/15 at 09:20:04 464C48424940444D131511210 wrote:
A steering damper will not make any difference to this situation. [/quote] That depends on the reason for the need for steering adjustment. I'm not just talking about ordinary corrections for maintaining a smooth line. I suppose I should've clarified that. 4943474D464F4B421C1A1E2E0 wrote:
Any bike can wobble. The video below can explain that for me. This is not necessarily indicative of an underlying problem. I have two reasons for my interest in a damper...First, is that I like to ride one handed sometimes and often with a light touch. Sure, I could stop riding like that and it would be a no cost solution but I don't want to. Second, is the atrocious condition of the roads in Houston. The broken pavement and shoddy tar snake repairs in our roadways here can lead to a herky jerky steering situation that wouldn't be remedied by a steering stabilizer but would be dampened, which is the point. I don't agree that the S40 is a slow steering bike. For it's design I'd say it's responsiveness is anything but slow. Many cruiser style bikes usually can't achieve the S40's lean angles either. I do agree that a damper won't help with tramlining. I think a good set of properly inflated tires might be the answer for that. There's always going to be some though. https://youtu.be/fvsDIq3WwVA?t=4m25s [media]https://youtu.be/fvsDIq3WwVA?t=4m25s[/media] |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Serowbot on 08/03/15 at 17:21:02 A friend of mine has one,... he likes it... ... and he's fast... Anyway,.. I thought you might like the pic...:-?... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/bshow026.jpg |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/03/15 at 17:28:48 Thanks Sero I do like it. I planned to do the same setup just opposite side so I can use the horn mount holes. I got that style damper as well as the remote reservoir style. Gonna try them both and see which I like more. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by chzeckmate on 08/04/15 at 16:11:27 7E687F627A6F62790D0 wrote:
That's a sweet looking bike! It would appear that your friend also has a fork brace as well (Looks like a Superbrace in the pic). I'm curious if he got the damper before or after the brace and what insight he might share regarding the difference before and after. Of course, if he added them at the same time then we'd have to attribute the positive results to both. If he added the damper before the fork brace we might assume that the damper wasn't sufficient and likewise if he added it after the brace then we might assume the brace wasn't sufficient to achieve the desired effects alone. I'd say it's fair to assume that his experience without these accoutrements must have been considerably annoying to have spent the $165 on the brace and $?.?? on the damper and the effort to install them both. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/04/15 at 19:06:57 I'm curious if he got the damper before or after the brace and what insight he might share regarding the difference before and after. Of course, if he added them at the same time then we'd have to attribute the positive results to both. If he added the damper before the fork brace we might assume that the damper wasn't sufficient and likewise if he added it after the brace then we might assume the brace wasn't sufficient to achieve the desired effects alone. It's not everyday that I see complete analytical thought processes. Refreshing.. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/04/15 at 22:33:35 So I got the remote reservoir damper today and got it on the bike. Bracket was pretty easy to make so I whipped it up quick and installed it. Made marks then removed it and welded a bracket to the frame because I don't ever plan on removing it so... Did a pretty big ride tonight with the Venice Vintage MC. lots of cool vintage cafe bikes and such. We hit Topanga canyon and put in about 60 miles of solid canyon roads. The damper has 12 clicks on the knob from soft to hard. I started all the way at soft and slowly clicked 1 at a time through out the ride. At about 4 clicks I started to feel the damper working. Settled on 7 clicks as my happy spot. Steering is clean and responsive and there's definitely a difference in feel to not having it. The last section we did was a 9 mile run where we looped around and reversed back thru it. I did the first part at 7 clicks then at the turn around clicked it all the way back to the 1st click soft side. It was a very noticeable difference in feel of steering and response. Going to have to put more miles on it obviously before I can say it's a good addition but with just that little run I noticed a cleaner feel in the front end. It laid over smoother and wasn't as floppy as I'm use too when riding the canyons. I can say this though with just one ride under it's belt I'm happy with the $50 investment! |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by KennyG on 08/04/15 at 23:03:56 Rylee, Looks like you did a good job. How about posting some closeup pics of the bracket you made and how you have the other end fastened to your bike. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by chzeckmate on 08/04/15 at 23:29:50 Your bike is looking real good man. I'm glad to hear you had a good experience with the new damper. What I'm really interested in hearing about is your experience with it on roads you ride all the time. The ones you know like the back of your hand. I'm eager to hear a report once you have some more ride time on the damper. I'm with KennyG too...I'd like a better look and some more specifics about mounting. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/06/15 at 11:24:07 I'll get some better shots of how I mounted it plus a few pics of the bolt on mount I made for those not able to weld. I'm doing a big ride Saturday morning and I'll have some good feedback from that. As far as the roads I ride everyday the improvement was immediately noticable. Sad to say but I've posted the bike for sale. I have my eye on an 06 model with no miles and original owner that's bone stock. Time to start over and build another one. This time around I wanna do a voodoo vintage board track frame and swap the engine over. Gonna go longer and lower and have some fun with their frame switching it up a bit. Not sure if I'm going to go this route style wise yet or not. The sale has sparked good interest thanks to a few companies that have reposted the bike on instagram. If your on instagram you can check it out on the @bobbers_n_choppers page. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by JutMan on 08/07/15 at 09:34:52 Does removing the front fender change the stability in any way? I am curious since the fender mounts to both side essentially mating the right a left shock together. When it is removed, the shocks can act more independently. I would think that this would allow more wobble to the tire. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Dave on 08/07/15 at 10:04:50 I rode my Cafe' bike around for a year without a front fender. When doing the work to convert it to a Cafe' I just ran out of winter and wanted to spend the summer months riding....not working on a fender mount and fork brace. The next year I installed a TKAT front fork brace and fender. I really didn't notice a night/day difference in the way the bike handles. I did however notice that I got a lot less water and grit thrown into my face. |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by Rylee on 08/07/15 at 22:10:13 I've rode both with and without the front fender and I can't say I've noticed a difference in handling. Like Dave said you do notice the difference in being sprayed with debris! Nothing beats the combination of no front fender, 3/4 helmet, superslab and pouring rain! |
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Title: Re: Steering damper Post by chzeckmate on 08/08/15 at 00:15:12 I know what you mean. I've actually been considering putting a skirted front fender on mine to reduce the blowback. |
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