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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Won't go over 45
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Message started by rolavine on 07/27/15 at 10:39:51

Title: Won't go over 45
Post by rolavine on 07/27/15 at 10:39:51

97 Savage runs fine up to about 45 then no power. I took carb apart twice and cleaned it. Compression is 150 lukewarm (I didn't wan't to get burned). Set valves no change. Bike has raptor mod on it. When I test for vacuum at the old petcock port it have very little. I suspect that the main jet needle is not being sucked up to let the gas flow. Spark plug shows pretty neutral coloring, and the bike seems rev limited even in neutral. Pulling the carb off again today and I'm going to try using a shop vac to see if the diaphragm will pull up to the top given some vacuum. Going to check the 0-ring on the intake boot.

Carb has some nasty mods in it about 2 oversize on main and pilot and the jet needle has a homemade grove cut in it to enrich but the clip is in the normal position (can't read the number on the needle though) and it is in straight, but I can't believe any of that, or the sociopath approved jardine could be accountable for only getting about 5 hp out of the thing.

So, I had some questions.
The only source of vac that pull up the needle comes through the two small holes in the bottom of the slide?
If so, what stops vac going on the gap between the slide and the carb from putting just as much vac on the underside of the diaphragm, thus preventing needle rise?
What sort of vac reading should you have at the old petcock port?

Thanks in advance, am I missing something that could cause such an extreme lack of power? I mean, given the above, it has to be intake leak or carb right? The thing runs like a dream to about 40.

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by Dave on 07/27/15 at 11:05:44

Don't use a shop vac on the carb.....if you pop the diaphragm they are expensive.

If your bike has too rich of a main jet....it could kill your performance. If your bike is nearly stock I would suggest starting with a #150 main and a #50 Pilot, and 2 - 3 washers on the tapered needle (#4 machine screw washers).

The bottom of the slide diaphragm is exposed to the oval shaped vent at the top of the inlet side of the carb. Some air most likely leaks past the slide - but it is filtered air and accounted for in the jetting process. Some folks put on Pod filters that block this vent, and it makes the bike run really poorly.

If you cam or lifters are worn, or if you cam is not properly timed it could affect the power output of the engine, as could a bad ignition circuit or plugged air filter.

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by verslagen1 on 07/27/15 at 11:45:15

Tell about your bike...
new2you?
always ran this way?
work done on it?
mileage?

With that modified needle, you could be flooding it at wide open.
If the mods weren't done in progression, could be why you got what you got.

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by rolavine on 07/27/15 at 15:03:02

Thanks for the responses.
Bike is new to me, It was in non running condition when I bought it (yeah a project). Shows 9000 miles on the odo? I did use the shop vac with leaked vac, and the slide went up about out half way. When I provided a restriction on the input it went all the way up, so I don't think that was the problem.

When I pulled the intake boot the o ring had some fluid under it and showed no signs of being compressed (it may have been a too small substitute?), so I'm guessing that it was not making a seal. I put it back together with some form a gasket, maybe that was my problem?

Thanks for the explanation on how the underside vac is leaked. I was wondering what that oval cutout was for!

Maybe it is just running too rich, I'll order some stock part, needle, two lower jets, and try it. Once the bike hits 45 in either 4th or 5th opening the throttle does nothing at all, not even a sound change.

The needle is back on the normal slot, but the fact they cut the lower one in it indicates ownership by a bozo cowboy.

Wouldn't a cam error effect the compression?

While I'm new to the savage, let me say what a joy it is to only have one carb to work on, I'm used to 4. Of course my last bike had sacred fuel injection, and that is perfect if the gods are with you.

This bike came with a K&N but I shoved some extra foam in there to create more restriction and no change. I also shoved some muffler fiberglass into the Jardine and that also made no change other than my neighbors stopped giving me the stink eye!

Maybe just an intake leak at the boot? Or is that too much magical thinking?

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by rolavine on 07/27/15 at 15:07:53

Oh, yeah and one more thing, maybe the most significant of the lot, when I pulled the carb off the feel of the slide when I pushed it up was very linear without any sense of the diaphragm providing any restriction. I opened the top and this time used a small quantity of grease to seal the diaphragm to the carb body. When I reassembled and pushed the slide it had a very different feel to it, like I was compressing some air, so maybe that was my only problem? Putting it back together now and I report.

Great fun tinkering with something simple enough to actually tinker with.

Once I get it running I'm going to have to raise the seat about 4 inches so I don't feel like I'm riding a kids trike!

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by rolavine on 07/27/15 at 16:24:04

OK, just took it for a ride, I hit 70 in 3rd, and didn't push it beyond that point, I can practically see air under the tires, lol.
What a fun bike, my last bike was an fjir1300 and while I could be missing a lot, the smile on my face running this 'putt putt' is ear to ear.
I love the way this big single shakes itself back to stability when I ask too much of it in too low a gear (yeah I'll learn not to do that, lol).

I think what fixed the bike was sealing the juncture between the diaphragm and the carb body at the top of the carb. I ran the vacuum cleaner tests after that.

Thanks for the help, and who knew a savage could be so much fun!

I'm still giggling!

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by Kris01 on 07/27/15 at 18:14:43

If I remember right, there's a small lip on the diaphragm that seats around the perimeter of the carb body before the cap goes on. BE VERY CAREFUL with the diaphragm! It will tear easily!

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by Steve H on 07/27/15 at 20:39:50

And it's expensive to replace.

Title: Re: Won't go over 45
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/27/15 at 20:51:25

Like buying chikkin breast, might as well get the whole bird.