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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1437626042 Message started by verslagen1 on 07/22/15 at 21:34:01 |
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Title: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/15 at 21:34:01 At the tail end of 2014, just before the must-pass National Defense Authorization Act was going to be voted on, Arizona Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake slipped in a rider that in effect gave public land containing the sacred Apache site Oak Flat to a copper-mining company. Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/05/29/oak-flat-apache-land-grab-impressive-new-low-nyt-op-ed-160533 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/17/apache-tribe-oak-flat-new-york-times-square |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by old.indian on 07/22/15 at 21:53:37 Not surprising...McCain and Flake were trying to get treaty water rights from the Navajo recently. Example of the word "oxymoron" = honest politician. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/15 at 21:54:22 More heroism.. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/15 at 05:03:41 i dont know.......seems like out west, if you spit it lands on some obscure "tribe's" sacred land. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/15 at 05:20:00 To the best of my knowledge, there is no tribal land Not owned by treaty. Trying to steal from them is not okay. Ill bet you'd holler if they screwed you. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/15 at 06:28:18 if I had a magic wand, I'd wave it and get rid of all tribal lands, reservations, whatever you want to call it. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by old.indian on 07/23/15 at 07:41:48 536166777061764965766F040 wrote:
That raises the same reaction I had to the yuppie twit who said. " While you were in Vietnam putting your buddies in body bags, I was getting laid by burning my draft card at peace rallies...." >:( |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/15 at 10:09:41 083A3D2C2B3A2D123E2D345F0 wrote:
The white man has a magic wand, he waved it and the buffalo were nearly driven to extinction. Then he drove the indian onto worthless piece osh!t lands and call them reservations, now you want them back. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/15 at 10:37:17 Better hope that wand doesn't land in the hands of an Indian, and if it did, they'd be right to evaporate us. IMHO, if wrongs can be measured, they have a bigger complaint than anyone else. Trail of Tears Look it up. Broken treaties.. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/15 at 10:46:43 wow.....did I ever ruffle some head dresses.... I know, the subject is taboo, but hell that was a century ago or more. Native-Americans, African-Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian-Americans, how many freaking Americans do we have? isn't it about time we put this to bed? Sorry, but not to put too fine a point on it, but they lost the war. we took over the land, to the winner goes the spoils. Get rid of this dual nation status BS. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/15 at 10:48:34 43404802454248454D422C0 wrote:
That raises the same reaction I had to the yuppie twit who said. " While you were in Vietnam putting your buddies in body bags, I was getting laid by burning my draft card at peace rallies...." >:( [/quote] that was a real sh!tty thing to say and I hope you beat his as$. I wouldn't put my comment in the same category. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/15 at 11:28:03 I would. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/15 at 12:12:13 You're gonna have to put it in some context so he can understand... Like... My ancestors were force marched from MS to OK so that yours could steal our land. Nearly 1 in 4 died on the way of starvation and exposure while yours fatted himself upon our land. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/15 at 12:49:16 everybody's ancestors did $hit to everybody elses ancestors. whatever tribe you associate with probably had a war with another tribe and took over their land. i'm of Scottish descent and from what I recollect, the Romans crapped all over us for centuries. honestly, I don't have a dog in this hunt and I'm certainly not going to argue about it. I'm just not inclindec to join in on the "oh, look what wd did to the poor old American Indian" pity party anymore then I'm going to boycott German product because my uncle was destroyed in World War II. which, by the way, was a hell of a lot more recent. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/15 at 12:58:16 I'm not claiming ancestry. Third party observer position, I see injustice. Maybe some people can't do that. I'm able to see it from their side. That's been a problem I've had for a long time. When i was captain of the PE flag football, well, two below, no flags, team, teams sent two out, to hash out rules. They wasted time arguing. I went out , with the quarterback, and told them You make the rules, just don't change them. I was the only captain who wasn't the quarterback. I'd rather win, so, I picked a kid who could throw. And, the first guy I picked was the fat kid. Always picked last. He was tall and huge. I taught him to block, so, we had one blocker for the quarterback. Had others not cheated our record woulda been best. How is it possible to cheat and still Feel as if you'd won? You can't win if you cheat |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by pgambr on 07/23/15 at 17:28:06 @Old_Indian: Can you elaborate on the differences between a "Tribe", a "Federally Recognized Tribe", and Land that is trusted. My understanding is a Tribe needs to gain the federally recognized status to gain significant benefits as well as to achieve the "Sovereign Nation" status. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by HovisPresley on 07/25/15 at 05:59:10 112324353223340B27342D460 wrote:
Wrong! |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/15 at 07:17:53 Some of us don't know history that well. I don't have a clue about that. Any explanations,Why is it thought they did, and ,Hovis, you seem clear in your opinion, I know proving a negative is kinda hard,, but have you got more to add? |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by HovisPresley on 07/25/15 at 10:42:36 In a nut-shell, the Romans 'tried it on' with the Scottish, but never conquered or ruled Scotland. They were in conflict (relatively briefly) with the Scottish, but failed. The Romans built Hadrian's Wall stretching the width of Northern England (and the Antonine wall) as a Northern Border to their Empire, and also to keep the waring tribes out. The Romans never conquered Ireland, either. This is all too simply put, but that is the gist of it. It's more likely that Mark's ancestors were crapped on by the English and the Vikings.... |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/15 at 13:16:32 My step mom was born and raised in Greece. A woman who was from Germany moved in a few houses down. Really, I'm pretty sure that woman had nothing to do with what the Germans did to Greece, but my soap opera watching, vindictive, small minded witch of a step mom Hated that poor woman, just because of where she came from. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by pgambr on 07/25/15 at 15:14:19 A few years back I knew a guy who fought in the pacific theater of WW2. He was 88 at the time I knew him and he still hated the Japanese after all those years. I never asked about his experience during the war; although, he must of had horrendous memories. Regards, |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by MnSpring on 07/25/15 at 17:10:32 Conquering. For several, 1,000 of years, Long before, the North American Continent, was populated. Various groups, ‘Conquered’, another group. It is the way of the Human Race. Now let’s go back about, only about 150 years ago. to North America. The, ‘white’ man, ‘conquered', the N.A. Indian. Who, (1,000’s of years ago), were descendents of the, Incas, Aztecs, & Maya. That, ‘conquered, by the ‘white’, man’. Is subject to much debate, on both sides, and BOTH sides, did things, which are NOT, ‘P.C.’, by today's standards. So, ’Today’, do the N.A. Indians, have the, ‘right’ to, cheat, lie, steal, bribe, to get what they want, as a, ’Tribe’, because of what happened, 150 + year ago in N.A. ? (I am sure, that, ’somewhere, WAY, back in history, a group, or family, could say, the land, where the ‘Vatican’, now sits, is theirs ! Because, once, WAY back, it was.) So here we have, a, ‘conquered’, group, who for the last, 120 + years, have relied on the, ‘Government’, of the, ‘conquering’ group, for, SUBSIDY. Now, we have the, ‘conquered’, group, making BILLIONS Each year, in Casinos,. Good for them, great, it is, FREE CHOICE, to go their or not. It is, ‘Free Choice’, to give them Money. (OBTW, they STILL get ’Subsidies’, from the US Government, even though each tribe member, gets ‘almost’, 1 MILLON a Year) But is it all right, to ‘claim’, land, which, Long Before the, ‘white man’, came to N.A., That their, Great, Great, Great, Ancestors, once camped on ????? Is it all right to, ‘claim’, a 1850’s treaty, which says, in one part: “Gill Netting and Spearing shall be allowed” and in another part it says: “Any 3 Indians off the reservation can be shot on site” One of those statements, is: “Oh Yea, Not a problem” and another is: “That is Not relevant today” Well Of Course, the, ‘…3 Indians in a group…shot …’, is Not even thought about, today! It is totally absurd ! YET, the Gill Netting and Spearing, is Valid ???????????? Hello, What is going On Here ??????? Can you guess ? |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/15 at 18:07:14 Excellent rant. OBTW, they STILL get ’Subsidies’, from the US Government, a million dollars for each member...? I'm gonna need something to back that up. |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by MnSpring on 07/25/15 at 20:35:55 The, ’’Subsidies’’, from the Federal Government, Are for, ALL, Native Indians’,, I believe it is about, $15,000.00 a year. For ALL, N.A.. So that is FREE House, FREE Land, and NO RE Taxes. Gee, if, you had, Free House/Land, and NO, State/Fed Taxes, could you make do on $15,000.00 a year ? The Millions come form the ‘tribes’, that have Casinos. A, question is: WHY, if someone making a Million a Year, STILL, getting, Federal, Subsidies. ????? |
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Title: Re: Apaches in a fight for Oak Flat Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/15 at 20:41:37 IF what you say is true, it's a tiny problem compared to the crap going on. |
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