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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> bring back crucifixion /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1436965732 Message started by WebsterMark on 07/15/15 at 06:08:52 |
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Title: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/15/15 at 06:08:52 I have our first candidate. This wine drinking, snotty, pretentious, evil wench.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjxwVuozMnU |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/15/15 at 07:30:51 Ohh, I can't wait to see where this goes. I'll bet I surprise some people. It's almost Too good to be true, the openness, the topic, eating a salad, I don't know, but, let's let it play out In a way it can be seen as a peripheral issue compared to the other problems of society, but , another look, different angle, maybe more core issue than it seems on the surface Real or not, no one gets in trouble. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Art Webb on 07/15/15 at 10:08:38 so Planned Feticide can sell body parts of unborn babies they've killed, but I can't 'profit' from 'donating' those of mine I could do without, that some wealthy person might benefit from, and it's perfectly legal and moral, interesting Also, always wonder what their prefered method of 'terminating' was crushing sounds very humane |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/21/15 at 15:07:58 So now we have another candidate. "Dr" number two was filmed negotiating baby parts, joking she wanted a new sports car. Just wondering if that AC is gonna be cold enough ....! |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/21/15 at 18:43:59 Web,.. you're so anti-abortion... Do you have any idea why?... It's not your religion,... Jesus said nothing about it even though it was legal and commonplace under Roman law in his time... No one was ever crucified for either assisting in, or ending a pregnancy. It was allowed and accepted by Christian and Hebrew law for over 2000 years... Anti-abortion movements only came about in the 1800's... It wasn't that Christians figured out something new... or changed their minds... It was a sociopolitical reaction to the women's suffrage movement, and doctor's reaction to the increasing intrusion of midwifery on their profits... It was a way, to keep women in their place... barefoot, dumb, and pregnant. That is all... Only when the Christian Right started taking over the Republican Party did the issue take on this fervor... ...and it still ain't about the sanctity of life... It's just a hot button that the Christian Right uses to maintain power... ...and believe me,... for all their squawking, they don't want the issue to go away... They cherish Roe v Wade more than you can imagine... :-?... I know that won't won't change your mind a bit,... but you should know the real reason you believe what you do, and the reasons it was indoctrinated in you. It is intended to dis-empower women... |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by pgambr on 07/21/15 at 19:19:17 Quote:
Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty—death—for someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as for someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb to be as human as a full-grown adult. Can you acknowledge some bad karma could exist for cutting up a baby and selling it for $$ Best regards, |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/21/15 at 20:05:05 6375627F67727F64100 wrote:
Christian Right uses to maintain power... ...and believe me,... for all their squawking, they don't want the issue to go away... Seemed a bit odd you see that so well, maybe I don't know you as well as I thought. It is not a behavior limited to Christian pretenders. You know how many would cry if poverty or racism went away? I don't really care about when it was legal. Surely you aren't supporting a black market in dead baby parts.. Hey! I know how to solve it! Let's just make it legal. I have to admit, you got sick people, throwing out parts that would help sounds weird. The push to create Planned parenthood was definitely made by one seriously racist woman. You're one of the progressives. Since abortion is so old, isn't about time to progress? |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/21/15 at 21:30:15 I doubt seriously that abortion pre-Roe V. Wade accounted for more than half .... http://www.theamericanmirror.com/shock-more-black-babies-aborted-than-born-in-new-york-city/ That's messed up. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 06:43:57 Web,.. you're so anti-abortion... Do you have any idea why?... You're talking to a man who was born a twin to an alcoholic father and struggling mother with 5 children to raise. Dirt poor doesn't quite describe it. My twin died, my mom died at home in bed, (despite living next door to a hospital, I think my dad was drunk) my dad gave us remaining children away to my aunts to raise. That was in the early 60's when killing unborn babies was taboo. Despite what you claim, it was never normal to kill a child. I survived because of two old ladies who felt it was their Christian duty to take us in and because I had the luck to be conceived in 1960, not 2015. You would encourage a young mother today, married to an alcoholic father, with 3 other children and no money, to abort those fetuses. Afterall, they are not people you'd tell her. My wife was born to an unwed 19 year old who gotten pregnant by a married man, a doctor we think, who spit as soon as he found out. She moved into a house for unmarried girls (they had those back then) and gave birth to a little girl who I married 22 years later. If you spoke to that woman back in 1963 in Kentucky, I guess you'd tell her to abort that little girl, after all, it's not like she's a person or anything. I said sometime back, you grew up in my world, but now I have to live out my life in your world. Well, in your world, both my wife and I would have likely ended up little plastic bags sitting outback of a Planned Parenthood business on our way to the incinerator. However, today, we have two children and now a grand daughter. When my daughter in law found out she was pregnant, after maybe 6-8 weeks, that baby was part of our family as much as anyone else. They had a gender reveal party and told us the name and for the next 6 months or so, no one said baby or fetus or anything else, she was Sadie. 'Did you feel Sadie kick today? Or what did the Dr say about Sadie". One day in September, Sadie traveled a few inches, took a breath and now all of a sudden, according to you, she's a person deserving of legal protection. Newsflash; she'd been a person all along. Abortion is personal to me. If my wife and I were conceived today, we would be crushed and sold for parts so some b!tch could drink wine, twirl forks and wear nice blouses at lunch while negotiating my sale. Or, I could help fund some other evil monster's sports car. Anyone who's prochoice has a serious character flaw. Anyone making money off the sale of baby parts is a monster. Neither may realize it, but they are. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/22/15 at 07:06:08 Any of us, could have been aborted, miscarried, born deformed, or never even conceived. Life is a crap shoot. I don't encourage or discourage anyone to do anything more dramatic than change their petcock. ...maybe, wear a helmet... |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by oldNslow on 07/22/15 at 07:14:54 Baby steps... "The descent into Barbarity has started with the harvesting of the body parts of innocent children who have been murdered in the womb. It will soon proceed to the harvesting of the body parts of the Euthanized. In the future, it will be the body parts of the Healthy that will be harvested at the point of a gun." from [ch8594] Abortion, Darleen Click, The Culture Of Death Oh, Wait. I forgot. It's a "womens healh" issue. ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/22/15 at 07:43:28 And my smoking pot will eventually lead me to a heroin addiction... ...it's a slow progression... I'm still waiting... :-/... More on topic... Excerpt from the New York Times... Quote:
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 07:51:42 4751465B43565B40340 wrote:
i'm calling bull$hit on that! once conceived, life is no longer a crapshoot, it is reality. and to suggest you don't encourage or discourage is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Should I go back and show all of your "encouragements" for second amendment issues, religious issues, forcing others to pay the medical expenses of other people, forcing rich to pay more taxes, etc. etc. etc. like every other pro-choice person, you get trapped when you get into the minutia of your position. unlike you, I will strongly encourage you to consider that an unborn baby is just that a baby. It's not a group of meaningless cells to be harvested like carrots. oldnslow's point is well made, it will not be long before this happens. If you don't think so, I always point out that Roe versus Wade was very limited in its abortion ruling. However now look where were at. There's no way, even a scum sucking leech from hell, like Harry Blackmun, would have written the opinion he did had he foreseen doctors negotiating less damaging techniques when it comes to ripping off arms, legs, salvaging livers, hearts etc. so they could sell more viable organs and buy Lamborghinis. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by HovisPresley on 07/22/15 at 08:00:17 The question is this; When does a zygote, embryo, or foetus become a 'person'? This will never be agreed on. However, religion often dictates that abortion and contraception are wrong. In my opinion this is not because the 'unborn' have rights, but because that religion often wants it's numbers to grow. The child will usually grow up to be a follower of that religion and therefore the religion will increase it's numbers and therefore, it's power and influence..... PS. I'm interested to hear from the anti-abortionists as to when they reckon a zygote has it's own rights. PPS. Nice extract from New York Times, Serow ;) |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 08:23:01 Sew, I showed you mine now you show me yours ...... ha ha. metaphorically speaking of course. you are so pro abortion, so pro-choice, so blind to the rights of an unborn baby, so tell me why. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 08:28:31 The New York Times can try to spin this anyway they want, but the comments by both doctors are darning. Why would it cost more to ship a liver then a heart? She was talking price (note: PRICE not cost, big difference) between 30 and $100 per specimen if shipping and handling were the only fees and they were not out to make money why the different prices? there was no explanation for the difference in prices such as one specimen piece require greater handling than the other, which it clearly doesn't. Why was she suggesting they contact the St. Louis office? The second video is even more darning she was negotiating prices for specimens. There's no getting around that. how about you use the same judgment techniques on these videos as you did on mitt Romney's 47% video! |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by raydawg on 07/22/15 at 08:32:01 When you ask.......answer this. A couple is on the way to PP to abort, however they become involved in an accident. The girl, because of injuries sustained, lost the fetus. The cause of the accident was the fault of the other driver. The other driver had resources and they hired an attorney and bought a wrongful death charge against the other driver. Their is your answer. $$$$$$$$ As to editing, this is laughable. Not that I am saying it wasn't done.... But to give some example of editing the left used to influence to perception is B1 saying "no new taxes". He went against his own pledge in order to SIGN a tax increase bill the left passed so he would prove non-partisan in his executive role and grant the petition against his own beliefs.... And the left used that read my lips pledge out of context to deceive voters. So, whats good for the goose should be good for the gander pal, so don't whine when the sword cuts you. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/22/15 at 08:39:04 665453424554437C50435A310 wrote:
i'm calling bull$hit on that![/quote] I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bull$hit on myself there... ;D... I am opinionated... I do try to convince people to see my point of view. ... but you can't seriously imagine that upon hearing of someone's pregnancy, I encourage them to abort... I'm not "pro-abortion"... I'm just "Pro- it's not my choice to make". "oh, you're pregnant?... You know what you should do?... You should get an abortion... I hear they're loads of fun"... "I wish I could get pregnant so I could have one"... :-?... |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 09:08:54 and there is no debate about when life begins. Any scientific explanation of what life is applies to the conceived child after immediately after conception. Albert Einstein used thought experiments to explain complicated issues in his theories of relativity. his favorite was long trains in space moving parallel or perpendicular to one another. It's also common to use the twin paradox when discussing the time dilation of relativity. thought experiments with clocks were used until the space shuttle came along and they used real clocks to prove relativity as well. So imagine this thought experiment: the Mars Lander is scooping up dirt and analyzing particles. In a pile of dirt it comes across a one day old conceived human. It's analysis determines the DNA is completely unique of any other human in the universe. The cells are dividing and growing towards very specific organs with very specific functions. They are taking in energy and giving off waste. The news flash would reverberate around earth: life has been found on Mars! |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by HovisPresley on 07/22/15 at 09:15:43 Yes, a zygote is alive, but is it an independent individual that has it's own rights? What's with the 'Einstein/Mars' analogy? |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 09:19:35 ... but you can't seriously imagine that upon hearing of someone's pregnancy, I encourage them to abort... I'm not "pro-abortion"... I'm just "Pro- it's not my choice to make". Fair enough. Then I suppose you will become pro-choice on gun ownership. It's not your choice to make if I have a machine gun, right? after all, it is my body. If I want my body to shoot a machine gun how come you're telling me I can't? I assume you'll become pro-choice on the death penalty. It's not your choice to make it Texas decides to execute convicted murderers right? you can become pro-choice on healthcare. Why should you choose health care for me? I suppose you will become pro-choice on taxes. Why should you decide I should pay more taxes than someone else. It's my choice isn't it? |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/22/15 at 09:30:50 Hate to disappoint you, but,.. I don't get to choose any of those things... Maybe if I were taller, I'd be allowed more influence... :-?... Mars is a long way to go for an abortion... :-/... See,.. in your example,.. this "life" would be dead... because it is not a viable lifeform outside it's mother... ...ex-specially,... yes,.. ex-specially,... on Mars... :-?... |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 09:39:59 OK, fine. That was your cute little way of getting out of this discussipn. I understand. Once cornered with the reality of their position, all pro-choice people punt. Like I said I don't blame you I would too if i were in your shoes. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 09:44:40 63445D42587B594E58474E522B0 wrote:
as oldnslow pointed out, a car accident that kills an unborn baby, can land a man in jail for manslaughter. if another identical car accident knocked a cancerous tumor out of a woman, I don't think the man would be prosecuted under manslaughter laws, do you? In both cases, a gathering up cells were destroyed. what's the difference? |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/22/15 at 10:19:08 I'm still here... I do flitter away once in while, due to my short attention span... but, I check back in... I've got wash on the line... I believe the manslaughter question is determined by whether the fetus would be viable outside the womb... That would be in area of 20 some weeks, I think.... Only 1.4% of abortions occur at that stage, and they are overwhelmingly done because of eminent danger to the mother, or gross deformity of the unborn... That is the law currently for late stage abortions... So, I'm not exaggerating or distorting the statistic... |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Art Webb on 07/22/15 at 10:51:03 I think it depends on the state There was a recent case where a woman posted a CL add about baby stuff, then when the expecting mother showed up, cut the baby from her living body and ran off with it, killing the baby (by mistake?) in the process The baby was at a viable age, and not in distress of any sort, yet she will not be charged with murder Because the baby died in the removal, instead of afterward had the baby drawn a single breath, it would have been murder Other states would have prosecuted for murder Lovely, what the 'legal definition' of life makes possible, innit? |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 11:10:08 there were 1.06 million abortions done in the United States in 2011. 1.4% = 14,084 there were 15,614 homicides reported in 2013. i guess we should stop talking about these since it really isnt a big deal.... And I might point out if there really was eminent danger to the mother, there's such a thing called a C-section. If the baby has to be removed from the mother for the mother to live, there's a lot better ways to do this than chopping them into little pieces and selling them so some b!tch can buy a Lamborghini. honestly, the whole life of the mother thing is BS. it's a convenient escape clause. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by oldNslow on 07/22/15 at 11:12:50 Quote:
raydawg said that, not me. My only post on this topic went in a slightly different direction. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 11:16:46 honestly, you can't win this argument on facts. All you really have left to say is this is a partisan, liberal position and, being a member of that team, you have to be pro-choice. To do that, you really can't ever allow yourself to closely examine what precisely is meant by the phrase pro-choice. Because if you did that it would lead you to the realization that taking a pro-choice position is less than human, which I don't think you are. I think you're a decent guy who would really rather not think about this other than in the abstract. You will never convince me abortion isn't anything other than the killing of an innocent human being, because the fax tell anyone who looks at it closely, that's what it is. Because of that, I can never move off of my position. However, I have the possibility of changing your mind. but I will drop this line of discussion. For now. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 11:17:28 734D4C40524E4F210 wrote:
whoops, sorry about that. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/22/15 at 11:45:21 162423323524330C20332A410 wrote:
Probably best... BTW... calling me decent,... and a human being... That's name calling, you know... ;D... PS... Thanks for being so civil on such a hot button topic. Peace, Serow ..and now,.. I must think of a stupid topic, to loosen us all up again. Hmmmm?.. :-/... |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/15 at 12:36:04 4254435E46535E45310 wrote:
Probably best... BTW... calling me decent,... and a human being... That's name calling, you know... ;D... PS... Thanks for being so civil on such a hot button topic. Peace, Serow ..and now,.. I must think of a stupid topic, to loosen us all up again. Hmmmm?.. :-/...[/quote] nd now,.. I must think of a stupid topic, to loosen us all up again. Hmmmm?.. What? You can't really believe that WE believe that will be any effort. Dig in the bag, man. Errr, Muppet, |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/15 at 12:55:55 Technically, we don't have to make that decision, we can only advise. But I feel the same way about the dictates from the Vatican. And when do the rights of 1 person outweigh that of another? For the 1st 9mo to 18yrs, they are parasites that may threaten the life of the host. They have to live with the consequences. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/15 at 13:05:22 And when do the rights of 1 person outweigh that of another? When one person, who has complete control over another person whom is unable to defend or speak for themselves, kills that person for their own convenience, then it is our right and duty to step in. Sorry, but when a woman becomes pregnant, she no longer has 100% claim over her body. Another human being has claim also. Yea they are parasites! Ungrateful little buggers who turn into slightly larger but just as ungrateful! My daughter's name is Hannah and she's in college. We've taken to referring to her as 'Hannah-who?". I'm thinking one day I'll get a call from her to let me know she's moved to England or some other such place. "Oh, I didn't tell you that before dad?"..... If her car breaks down however, I'll hear from her before it coast to a stop..... |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/15 at 14:55:11 5A686F7E79687F406C7F660D0 wrote:
I can agree to that, but that's also why we pay so much welfare to stay at home baby factories. who decides what is a convenience vs. a necessity is where I have issues. she and the child bears the burden, we never do. Quote:
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/15 at 10:54:20 you just know Planned Parenthood is making serious cash off fetal body parts. Johnson said Planned Parenthood is “absolutely” using ultrasound-guided abortions to preserve organs so they can be sold. She continued, “It’s a big business. Planned Parenthood is harvesting these organs, this tissue as early as seven and eight weeks gestation at a lot of their abortion facilities across the country. They are packaging them, they are shipping them off to, sometimes companies that act as middle men, sometimes directly to the research labs. And they’re getting paid a pretty good price for each specimen they send out.” When asked if the women are informed of what is done with the organs and tissue, Johnson answered, “they do, by and large, and I can only speak at my affiliate and what I experienced, but we did consent our patients. But the interesting thing, is that I think it almost soothed the conscience of the woman. So, we would talk to them and say, ‘You know, this is an opportunity for you to give back, by donating the fetal tissue to research. It could potentially save the lives of other people,'” which gave a “false sense of altruism.” Johnson added, “they’re certainly not telling women that, ‘We’re going to pick through the body parts that are removed from your uterus, and we’re going to pick out the best organs, the ones that we can get the most money for, and ship them off.’ They are talking to these women about the life-saving efforts that these research studies could have, when that may not be true at all.” She concluded, “we don’t ever know what they’re being used for as the abortion provider. We are just told that the tissue is being used for different research studies. Sometimes we ship them to a middle man. Sometimes we ship them directly to the research department.” |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Art Webb on 07/23/15 at 21:25:50 I think a lot of folks believe that the fetus is just an amorphous blob of tissue at that stage, with no recognizable human features, like arms, legs, livers, hearts, etc One of our many Rep candidates supposedly put in practice a requirement in his state that women wanting an abortion must have an ultrasound first, and according to him, the abortion rate dropped I have no idea if this is actually true I do agree with versy that we sure don't need any more welfare mommas out there, but I think the women who do that aren't getting abortions right now After all, you can't be a welfare momma with no babies |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Serowbot on 07/23/15 at 22:03:21 Well, there's a contradiction... Hate then abortions,... hate the welfare mothers... Don't want the welfare babies,... but, fervently want to see that they are born... They are precious,... and I resent them... You can't remake a person by yelling at them.., They have their own entire upbringing, and life experience... their own needs, and their own future. They will act on the cumulative experience they have been afforded... Their reality,... is as valid as anyone else's... We are all unique beings, with wholly similar but distinctly different experiences and perceptions... These are immutable, and no argument can alter the reality of this past experience... There is a sort of prayer,...or chant... God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by WebsterMark on 07/24/15 at 09:06:35 4751465B43565B40340 wrote:
There is no contradiction; there’s a PERCEIVED contradiction fostered by liberals. To say conservatives HATE these people is unfair. Do you HATE rich people? I don’t HATE welfare mothers, I don’t HATE welfare babies. I do HATE what they are doing to society and I HATE the ramifications their actions force on me. And yes, you can remake a person by yelling at them. Isn’t that what parents do in order to teach civilized behavior to children? What if a person’s cumulative experience is harmful to society? This is the Michael Brown problem. He was a thug and he brought this upon himself as many others have as well. Within his culture and ‘cumulative experience’, he was acting like his peers. However, rather than ‘yelling’ at them for self-destructive behavior, we blame the cops, blame society, blame Republicans etc…. How about we blame the people themselves? There’s a novel idea…. Personal responsibility! Women who get pregnant when they did not plan to are to blame. Once pregnant, they are no longer one person, but two. Sorry, but that’s the way nature works. Men don’t have this responsibility, women do. That's not to let men off the hook for their roll because last I checked, it takes two to tangle. But woman should not have the option to kill their unborn baby because that young life is an inconvenience to them. |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by Art Webb on 07/24/15 at 09:32:04 We never said we hated welfare mothers, or welfare babies, we said we didn't want more welfare mothers and their welfare babies And as I pointed out, the type of person who would become a welfare momma isn't the type to have an abortion she wants more babies, because when you're a welfare momma, more babies = more income the problem there is a welfare system that is self propagating, and is designed to be so, for the benefit of those who created it A woman who doesn't want to raise a baby can give it up for adoption, though the government makes that difficult too (the adoption, not the giving of the baby into 'foster care' (gov't funded orphan care) It is so difficult in fact that a lot of folks who want to adopt are going overseas to find kids to adopt And if I did hate anyone, it'd be the momma, not the baby |
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Title: Re: bring back crucifixion Post by MnSpring on 07/25/15 at 10:21:03 Quote:
Absolutely CORRECT ! Here is a case in point. For 30 years, (I have been into ‘Field Bred’, English Springer Spaniels). I have alyways said: “Their is a GREAT difference, between the, ‘Field Bred”, and the, ’Show Bred’, ESS.” (Tons & Tons, of FACTS on that) http://www.essft.com/fieldshow.html Yet, a Great number of people, take that and, ’spin’, it to say: “That Person, HATES, SB-ESS, and HATES People, that own, SB-ESS’s” Ah, not true. But ’some’ people, just wanna, SPIN. |
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