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Message started by stewmills on 07/12/15 at 19:57:21

Title: four wheeler carb advice
Post by stewmills on 07/12/15 at 19:57:21

i have a 2008 arctic cat 250. 1400 miles. runs fine, just giving me a fit starting. when i go to start it cold, i have to spin it over 10 or 12 times before it runs on its own. if i leave the petcock on i see a few drops of fuel on under the bowl, so i thought it may have a needle not sealing letting it flood. i turned off the petcock last night immediately after parking. went to start today and still the same...choke seems to make no differenc.

so,what would be the probable cause? need to clean and rebuild the carb?

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/12/15 at 20:31:02

Does it have a bowl drain ?
Sure it's not oozing?
Is it a vacuum petcock?
Did you see signs of dripping with the petcock shut off.
Try starting on prime if it's vacuum, wait a few seconds after turning it on, give the bowl a chance to fill up.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by stewmills on 07/12/15 at 20:34:08

yes. it does. i replaced the drain screw for good measure, so not exactly sure where the fuel is coming from...guess the gasket since i know it isnt the screw. gotta do some more investigating.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by prechermike on 07/13/15 at 03:43:39

Stew, I have an arctic cat 300, not sure about the year, but about the same. Mine was starting hard and then simply wouldn't start. It was the spark plug, my 300 fourtrax does the same thing. Change the plug and everything is fine again.

I know that doesn't answer the leaking gas question, or even have anything to do with the carb, but it is something to consider.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by stewmills on 07/13/15 at 05:13:15

thanks, will check the plug. i put in a new one about 3 months ago, but that doesnt mean it cant be fouling out or going bad.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/15 at 06:12:41

N.I.B. parts can be bad. The life of a spark plug, if good from day one, really should be until electrode wear gets it. JMO, nothing to prove that.

But, if it's got carb issues, try to start it, but don't, pull plug, see if it's wet.

If you've got the drain nipple,you can check the float level using a tube.

Hard start and a drop of gas from the carb every hour just don't seem related.
My four wheeler leaks at the bowl drain, doesn't cause it to not start.
Sitting for weeks, old gas, these may be more my fault than anything.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by verslagen1 on 07/13/15 at 07:25:19

that's a good tip, check the float height.

also, these are off road vehicles, not subject to epa tuning.
so they're jetted rich.
your hard starting sounds like flooding, it might start easier if you open the throttle a bit to dry out the flood.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by stewmills on 07/13/15 at 08:43:11

Thanks! I'll investigate the float height, plug, etc. and report back. I as well didn't think the drips of fuel and hard start would be related, except if it were evidence of flooding.

I always get confused on whether I should or should not use the choke (it's 90 degrees in the shade here) and if I should give it slight throttle? I was thinking it was flooding and thought that giving it throttle would make matters worse, but I guess that a little throttle opens the valve and lets more air in and lets it breathe?

So, try cold start giving it a little throttle with the choke ON or OFF?

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by Dave on 07/13/15 at 08:58:58

I have also heard that valve adjustment out of spec can make an engine difficult to start.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by verslagen1 on 07/13/15 at 10:03:23

686F7E6C76727777681B0 wrote:

I always get confused on whether I should or should not use the choke (it's 90 degrees in the shade here) and if I should give it slight throttle?

I'd have to assume that anything over 60° would not require choke, depending on the bike (mine's rich at idle).

Quote:

I was thinking it was flooding and thought that giving it throttle would make matters worse, but I guess that a little throttle opens the valve and lets more air in and lets it breathe?

Unless your carb has an accelerator pump (mine does, old cars do) twist it and let it dry out.
if it doesn't try to start while drying, then go back to square 1... no throttle start.

AND please, do not over heat your starter. Give it a break to cool off after a long run.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/15 at 11:16:44

I have been known to pull the plug and, using an appropriate length tool, light up the cylinder. It's the only way I can get the tiller to crank
. But, it's worn out...

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by Art Webb on 07/13/15 at 13:17:06

7C7B6A78626663637C0F0 wrote:

If you think it's flooded, I mean really flooded, open the throttle ALL the way and crank it, that''ll clear a flooded carb every time

remember, cold weather = choke, warm weather = no choke

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by stewmills on 07/13/15 at 20:08:44

Ok...got home and first checked the plug before doing anything and the pic below is what it looks like. Seemingly dry and no obnoxious odor of fuel. Cleaned the plug well. Put the plug in and left the wire off, turned it over a bit and then took the plug back out and it was clean as it was when I put it back in. No obnoxious smell of fuel. Put the plug back in and connected for a true start attempt.

(no choke) I turned over the starter with no throttle about 10 revolutions and it didn't crank. I did the same again with about 1/2 throttle and it cranked and idled for a short piece and sputtered and as I gave it a little throttle to rev it up it supttered out, which s typical when the engine is not warm. Did it again and kept my finger off the throttle and it idled for about a minute and warmed itself up and I could then give it throttle and it would rev up and not cut out.

Once it's warmed up, I can start and stop it as many times as I please and it cranks immediately, even after sitting for a couple of hours. It seems that once it gets fully 'cold' again and/or sits overnight is when it has it's cranking fit.

So, Versy, it seems that opening the throttle does help, as otherwise I would have had to fiddle with it and spin it over 10 times or so before it cranked.

I'll keep trying this and see if it helps on a consistent basis or if today was a fluke (truthfully, I think Versy ran over here at lunch and messed with it so it would crank and he'd look good :o ::) :P)

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/15 at 20:19:15

If it's getting too much gas and you pulled the wire off the plug, spun it over, and you pulled the plug, shouldn't it be wet?

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by stewmills on 07/13/15 at 20:39:17

one would think it would be wet. strange, but that's what i found.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by prechermike on 07/14/15 at 15:33:16

606776647E7A7F7F60130 wrote:

Stew, FWIW. my plugs always looked good. Sometimes they would even spark outside of the cylinder. I'm glad you got it going.

PS, It wasn't Versy, it was me. ;)

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/15 at 16:14:02

How old is the gas? Ive seen the Savage do that. Dumped the gas, drained the carb, New gas, Prime position to fill the bowl and Whammo, fire up, twist the grip, rev up, instead of gag and die.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by stewmills on 07/14/15 at 20:14:43

272532343F32253A3E3C32570 wrote:

PS, It wasn't Versy, it was me. ;)

sorry versy, I'm changing my alliance to prechermike. it's either that, or prechermike said it's curtains!!! :-? :-? :-?

jog, the fuel is good. i ride it a few times a week and cycle through fuel fairly regularly.

Title: Re: four wheeler carb advice
Post by verslagen1 on 07/14/15 at 20:34:22

6D6A7B69737772726D1E0 wrote:

[quote author=272532343F32253A3E3C32570 link=1436756241/15#15 date=1436913196]
PS, It wasn't Versy, it was me. ;)