SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Head leak... need advice! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1436556110 Message started by blackhalo on 07/10/15 at 12:21:49

Title: Head leak... need advice! Post by blackhalo on 07/10/15 at 12:21:49 Hey guys... so my trusty Savage has gotten me 26,000 miles of mostly trouble free riding... until now! It's done multiple 4000 mile highway trips with average speeds of 80-90mph... ahem, with the occasional 100mph (or needle pinned, just for fun) it's been solid as a rock... I love this bike!! I recently did the cam chain tensioner fix (just in the nick of time too, about 2mm left)... shortly afterwards, I started to notice this: http://s15.postimg.org/3oo5r5muv/IMAG1634.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/3oo5r5muv/) I figured it was the head plug issue that's posted on the forums... so I started cracking it open today... and found this: http://s11.postimg.org/nxx9gd0b3/IMAG1635.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/nxx9gd0b3/) http://s11.postimg.org/b595gfopb/IMAG1640.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/b595gfopb/) You can see the gasket (or RTV) that Suzuki used is blowing out around the spark plug... fair enough, I expected it... so now the questions: 1) How bad is this exactly? While it's blowing oil, and feels like it's getting worse fairy quickly, it's NOT dropping my oil level dramatically... would I be crazy to take it on a trip from Texas to Indiana (and keep the oil topped off)?? 2) What's involved in fixing this? Do I need to remove the engine from the frame? Can anyone point out the exact replacement gasket? I don't mind spending the time fixing this, but I'm likely gonna miss a roadtrip if I do it right now... partly because I don't have the replacement parts in-hand, and if the engine has to come out, then I'm definitely boned. Would I be nuts to just clean this up, then jam some Yamabond in there for a temporary (2200 mile) fix... or is that just wishful thinking? I'm just trying to strategize an attack plan on this... figured I'd get some insight from the experienced first! Thanks for reading!! http://s29.postimg.org/djj46xu6b/20140403_215824.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/djj46xu6b/)

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/15 at 12:57:31 no gasket, just rtv no parts to buy, maybe head plug. But it may also be the head gasket.  The head gasket can leak at the oil port and the oil show up at any of the head bolt. I'd 1st clean and dry the area in question, start her up and track down the leak.  Anything else and you're gonna be in for a surprise. The head cover can be pulled (usually) with the engine in the frame.

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by blackhalo on 07/10/15 at 13:09:00 283B2C2D323F393B306F5E0 wrote: I'd 1st clean and dry the area in question, start her up and track down the leak.  Anything else and you're gonna be in for a surprise. Good call... that's exactly why I posted!! :)

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by blackhalo on 07/10/15 at 15:42:34 Alright, cleaned it up a bit so we can see what's going on: http://s9.postimg.org/i0k97guor/IMAG1641.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/i0k97guor/) Gave it some oil since it was on the low side of the looking glass... intentionally tried the overfill trick, and went a bit too far... this is sitting on the side stand with the wheel turned left: http://s27.postimg.org/x1ksu31kf/IMAG1644.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/x1ksu31kf/) I ran it like this anyway because I wanted to get on with the test... bike actually felt a little better than usual, and didn't leak from the fill cap (I cleaned that area too, including the cap). So the test consisted of about 20 miles in 90 degree Austin heat... oil overfilled... did about 10 miles in stop/start traffic, then 10 miles at an almost steady 90mph on the freeway. I stopped to check it along the way (before the freeway)... noticed minimal puddling on the ledge of the head almost immediately (very minimal, no dripping): http://s29.postimg.org/tnyor1k03/IMAG1646.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/tnyor1k03/) Then after I got home I checked it again and it's barely much worse... there is a bit more (you care barely make out the milky line along the ledge), but it is growing slowly: http://s1.postimg.org/xujmo2scb/IMAG1652.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xujmo2scb/) One thing I get from this test is that it's not really a high speed / high pressure thing... it's simply a slow/steady leak... so the longer I ride, the more oil I use... doing highway speeds shouldn't make things any worse than if I was just riding around the city. I don't think the gasket is "blown", it's just seeping... is this a metal gasket?? If so, I'm assuming if I keep it topped up I should be fine for the trip... I could try to seal that ledge with Yamabond, but it's too slow of a leak to see exactly where it's coming from... it'd be a cheap band-aid at best. Any of this make sense, or am I just fooling myself?

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by Steve H on 07/10/15 at 17:00:59 Looks like a slow leak to me.  There shouldn't be any pressure there, I don't think, just oil splashing around in the head cover. The head cover has no gasket.  It is RTV and that's it. The head gasket is a metal ringed gasket but is well below where that is leaking.

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by pgambr on 07/10/15 at 17:15:34 Mine was doing that as well.  I gently tightened all the head bolts and found a couple that weren't loose, but certainly weren't tight.  I haven't had problems since and that was about 8 months ago. Best regards,

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by blackhalo on 07/10/15 at 17:18:29 No gasket up there? Cool, that saves me $30... Slow leak, I'm hoping... when I first noticed the oil hitting the fins, it got a lot worse after a single evening of riding... so I thought things were going south, fast... but perhaps it was just the slow buildup finally overflowed to the fins. Chances are this started around the time I did the cam chain tensioner... it just wasn't visible on the outside until weeks later. I welded my own tensioner though, and it was a wee bit on the tight side when I installed it... I don't see that causing an oil pressure problem, but I don't know for sure. Probably coincidence, but just enough to make me uncertain about everything... figured I'd get some second opinions before I go getting myself stranded between ATX and Indy.

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by blackhalo on 07/10/15 at 17:21:13 6A7D7B7778681A0 wrote: I gently tightened all the head bolts and found a couple that weren't loose, but certainly weren't tight. Huh, that's a really good point... my top motor mount came slightly loose a few times (usually after long trips at high speeds)... took me a while to finally figure out what was making my steering squirrelly. So if that came loose, there's a good chance these did too! Hot darn (I didn't write darn, lol)!

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by pgambr on 07/10/15 at 17:32:36 My steering used to get real loose then I put on a tkat fork brace.  It is FANTASTIC. Best regards,

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by Kris01 on 07/10/15 at 18:22:03 Just FYI, riding at 90 mph WILL burn oil.

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/15 at 19:16:25 My oil consumption increased with speed and when I had just changed oil I could ride and not worry, but when the oil had close to two thousand miles on it, it used oil faster. YYMV, literally, I ran it hard..

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by gizzo on 07/10/15 at 19:54:39 If you're not fussed about a bit of oil gettig on your boots, I wouldn't miss out on a road trip for that little leak. Just keep an eye on the oil level. Maybe hit the car wash and degrease it when you get there? Or, pull the rocker box off and reseal. Isn't hard and takes a couple hours. If you just smear the Yamabond around the outside, that's not going to do much good. The oil will just migrate around the back of it. Good luck. :)

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by Sonny on 07/10/15 at 19:58:47 Running at 90 with an oil overfill can't be a good idea. You folks who ride fast make me realize how much I baby my Savage. I feel like I'm pushing the gaskets out at 70!

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by Rylee on 07/11/15 at 03:03:34 I had that same area of oil leak a few weeks back. Cleaned it to find the actual cause of the leak and it turned out to be  the head stud nut located nearest to the spark plug. There was a thread on it. We figured out that stud was an oil passage and had a small gasket/washer under the nut and that was where the leak was from. I cleaned the area and pulled the nut and used a dab of rtv on the existing gasket and it solved the problem. It was a very minimal leak that didn't really seem to affect the oil level drastically. And as with yours riding condition didn't seem to make it any worse or better. While I was in there I grabbed the clymers and went ahead and torqued everything back into spec. Found 2 ofeet the head bolts not as tight as they should be but not really loose enough to do damage.

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by Art Webb on 07/11/15 at 07:35:40 wow, 90 and 100 on a stock Savage / S40 Mine won't do much over 85 on a good day now it's got that bigger rear tire on it

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by pgambr on 07/11/15 at 15:27:13 24373132202727450 wrote: Mine won't do much over 85 on a good day now it's got that bigger rear tire on it Yeah, mine as well.   ;) Best regards,

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by Dave on 07/12/15 at 04:34:47 If you tighten the bolts....easy does it.  The threads in the head and cylinder are aluminum and easy to strip.  I am on a phone and can't go to the Tech Section easily.....but go there and look up the torque value.  If you don't have a torque wrench that reads very low values well....just use a small wrench and a very light pressure.....they are snug....not tight!  I believe they are only torqued to something like 8 ft/lbs - which is not much at all.

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by blackhalo on 07/12/15 at 10:52:40 4C424F4D45464F42412E0 wrote: Well I went and tightened everything up, but no love... still leaked. So I cleaned it well, jammed some Yamabond as deep into the ledge as I could, around the entire curve... leak isn't showing, but we all know it's there. I don't mind an oil leak, I was just concerned that it would blow the gasket and strand me... but if it's an RTV seal, and high speeds don't seem to make a difference on the pressure, then it's just a slow leak. I can live with that... just needed the peace-of-mind that I'm not jumping off a cliff without a chance of survival. Btw, my Savage is mostly stock... but replacing the entire stock back-end with a trailer fender made it noticeably lighter... and the Supertrapp exhaust definitely gives it a mid/high-range bump... at 80mph there's still a lot of get-up-and-go. 75mph is the typical speed on the freeways / country roads here in ATX... so it's not hard for motorcycles to wanna hit 85 and get past traffic. Then when yer traveling thousands of miles on 80mph interstate highways... it's very easy to creep up to 90mph in the right weather conditions. I used to think my Savage was ready to explode around 65mph... but the vibes actually smooth out after that, 90mph on a nice Interstate with the wind at your back is hypnotic / smooth enough to fall asleep... I'm really impressed with the Savage, it's a strong bike. That's not to say those speeds don't loosen bolts though... just cuz the vibration is so fast it feels smooth, doesn't mean it's not heavy vibration in the real physical world. Every single time I push the bike to 100mph, I have to check for what came loose... 90mph not so much, but 100 is like clockwork... something always gets loose when you pin the needle. Anyway, thanks guys... I'm gonna take my chances and I'll update this thread when I get back... we'll see what happens!! Ride on!!

Title: Re: Head leak... need advice! Post by Art Webb on 07/13/15 at 22:07:13 I'm very familiar with Austin Tx traffic, grew up there and drove a taxi for a while My S40 will not go over 85 5th gear WFO, and unless you lay forward on the tank the wind blast at that speed without a shield is brutal (still haven't replaced mine I broke crashing on the Sisters) anyway, best of luck on your trip

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