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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1435265785 Message started by Dane Allen on 06/25/15 at 13:56:25 |
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Title: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Dane Allen on 06/25/15 at 13:56:25 I struggled with the title because I am not sure what the SCOTUS did exactly. They didn't interpret or clarify some poorly worded legalese nor did they open or close some loophole, rather, they ignored what the words said and just went with a definition provided by the defense. The country we all grew up in is gone and has been replaced by what we have now. Rules and laws mean nothing until the government applies them to you. In this case we all know that the healthcare subsidies were intentionally tied to State exchanges to compel the States into creating exchanges and managing Obamacare on behalf of the Fed. Now, the SCOTUS says law, schmaw, everyone gets subsidies just because. Who even knows what is going on anymore in this country? What is legal? Is anything legal or is there just a punishment waiting for you when it is found you pissed off some bureaucrat? A pillar of our country was toppled today, was it the last one? If not, how many more do we have left? |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/25/15 at 14:32:09 Clearly, the definition of words can't be expected to remain static. No means yes. Couple that with the TPP, I don't see how this works out well for the people. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/25/15 at 17:26:56 Rep. Brian Babin (R-Texas) said that his SCOTUScare Act would make all nine justices and their employees join the national healthcare law’s exchanges. Great idea,but,,, |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/25/15 at 18:28:02 I'm all for it... Some anti-Obama tried to find a loophole in the wording of the law to shut down Obamacare, and SCOTUS decided that the intention of the law was to provide care for everyone... That was the intention... and no one doubt's that... Rather than getting hung up on grammar or wording, they looked at what the law was intended to do... They aren't there to grade English papers they are there to interpret laws... Good for them... for once... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by WebsterMark on 06/26/15 at 04:53:18 obama's got a picture of Roberts poking a goat or something..... so according to Roberts, everytime you read the word States in the 10th amendment, you really are reading the words Federal Government .... so the powers not granted the Feds are reserved .....for the Feds?....huh?... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/26/15 at 06:17:16 The disconnect from reality is just too shocking. The time to type it out, only to be ignored, naah. I Understand the Heart Desire for all to have something so important. This will not work. It can not work. This will ruin whats left of our medical system. Does no one remember the 70s? For thirty bucks a month I had a BCBS card, walk in any office, and get help. Then the Govt decided the system needed fixed. Like the school system I WATCHED them sabotagge, Couple that inevitable failure with it being upside down, 180 out from the constitution. Toss in the TPP and there just isn't much America left. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/26/15 at 10:09:44 JOG,.. what you don't understand is BCBS in the 60's and 70's was a non-profit, tax exempt, service and worked in conjunction with the fed govn't... At that time,... health services were heading the right direction, and was on track to become a national health... HMO's destroyed it... Obamacare is getting us back towards those days. This current system is much more similar to the old BCBS than pre Obama... The countries in grey don't have a national health... You'll notice the US is the only modern, industrialized country in that group... All the other 1st world countries have better health care at less than half the price we pay. So,.. we can't afford to have healthcare at less than half of what we pay now?... That makes no sense... :-/... http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/assets_c/2012/06/mf%20healthcaremap%20p-thumb-615x314-91612.jpg |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/26/15 at 11:00:31 Bot - I take issue with your statement that those countries with national health plans have better care than do we. Simply not true. Why does every wealthy Arab Sheik come to Mayo, Mt. Sinai, Cleveland Clinic, or M.D. Anderson in Austin for serious medical conditions when he could easily go to Europe? These people can afford to go anywhere and buy nearly anything. Simple - U.S. medicine is the most advanced in the world, and maybe the most expensive. Like the guy selling coffee on TV in the 1960s - you get what you pay for. We have the most advanced cardiac, cancer, neurologic, and osteopathic care available in the world. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/26/15 at 11:02:29 Correct, I didn't know about BCBS. I disagree about it getting better , time will tell. I WANT to be wrong. I want Americans to have health care, affordabe, good,, health care. A ppoint you made about developed nations/health care, I. Me, I have doubts about how wonderful it is. Ive heard reports that certainly didn't impress me and I knew a nice old Brit dude who died. Seeing his posts about the Service werent making me jealous. I would like to hear from our Across the Pond friends. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/26/15 at 12:08:52 Jog,..you forget... I am British born... Mostly grew up there... and my remaining family is there now... I have used the National Health... I was hit by a car on my bicycle when I was 15... Smashed the left side of my face. Broke nose, eye swollen shut, torn eyelid, socket fractured, loosened teeth, torn lip. Plus body bruising... I also split my head open in Germany... got stitches... Both times I was seen in minutes. Treated well. Cost nothing... Plus various viruses, cuts and bruises of childhood. Waiting rooms were not lavish,... and beds weren't the Ritz, but that's not what I want to pay for anyway... (when I'm sick I'm not on a vacation)... Good, fast treatment, and send me home... thank you... Both my grandparents there, lived to 90+... My US born father here, died at 48 in surgery for a bypass... ...and I'm not saying some Sheik can't come here and go to a preeminent hospital and pay a fortune for the best surgery in the world. Although there are many rich Americans and Arab Sheiks that go to Europe for special treatments not available here, also... If you have unlimited money,.. you go where you get the best... ...But that has zero to do with our care... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/26/15 at 12:27:28 Bot - I again take issue with your characterization that being the best in the world has nothing to do with our care. A good friend of my family was diagnosed with uterine cancer 3 1/2 years ago. She had the surgery, all of the female organs removed, but some cancer showed up in the pathology test in the lymph nodes, so she had stage 4b cancer - the worst. Statistical life expectancy was 13-22 months. Today, 39 months out, she is cancer free, due to the advanced chemo she received at the world class cancer center at Ohio State University. She is a middle class woman of no particular wealth, nor high social standing. She got the care that any woman in her shoes would have received. No disrespect to the U.K., I love the country and was even stationed there for a short time eons ago, but I doubt her result would have been the same in a NHS facility. Cancer patients are considered cured after 5 years with no recurrence. So, in 21 more months, she'll be considered cured. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/26/15 at 13:52:06 Which country has the finest care, is debatable... Affordability is not... Only in America can you be bankrupted by healthcare cost... In fact,.. it's number one reason for bankruptcy... That, involves an untold cost, that we all pay for, and isn't even in the calculations of care cost. Skatergirl here, got cancer,.. she had a good job with a good health insurance. ...and she not only died... but lost her job and insurance, and ended up losing her house, and moving in with her mother. Her two children will have no inheritance. Everything their mother worked for will be gone. Taken away by her cancer... Never happens in any other civilized country. Healthcare that can't be afforded, isn't good care... Elderly here, sometimes used to go to the doctor, only to get a script that they couldn't pay for... (basically a diagnosis that you can't afford treatment)... These days are ending now... I think that makes US care much better. ;)... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/26/15 at 13:59:37 I remember Skater Girl. But I don't know why she lost her health insurance just because she could not continue in her job - COBRA should have kept her insurance. Also don't know why she had to lose the house. American bankruptcy laws protect the primary residence for most people; there are exceptions, but not many. Perhaps she never got the right advice from the right person - who knows, but the results aren't typical for someone who had a job and had insurance. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/26/15 at 14:20:56 Maybe not technically... http://ask.metafilter.com/125742/Do-people-lose-their-homes-over-health-expenses You shouldn't need a lawyer to get healthcare either... ;D... Of all the times to be put under such pressure,...people dealing with serious health issues are focused on bills instead of caring... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/26/15 at 14:27:03 You don't need a lawyer to advise you on COBRA. The employer is legally required to send a notice about it to any employee who quits, gets laid off, or gets fired. I wonder if she got the notice and ignored it. As for keeping a house, sure it takes a lawyer to do a bankruptcy, but a simple, individual bankruptcy is dirt simple, and the cost is minimal. I realize that people who are very sick, and facing a terminal illness may not be thinking about such things. That's why we owe it to our family members and friends in that circumstance to get them the advise that they need. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/26/15 at 14:54:53 The point is,.. only in America is it an issue... There have been numerous accounting's of the healthcare crisis in America in the past decade or so... If you think everything is fine,.. you just aren't connected with the reality of most people... I think some of your poorer friends might be some of my rich friends... Different realities...;D... We seem to be arguing as to whether there is even a problem, rather than what's the best solution... Recognizing the problem, and admitting it, is first step to fixing it. We're not paying triple or more for healthcare equivalent to Kobe beef, here.. while other countries eat hamburger... We're just buying more expensive hamburger... Maybe slightly better than some,.. not so good as others... The quality is not the difference, it's the price... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by old.indian on 06/26/15 at 17:09:39 Cost of Medical Care : My 96 year old mother went to the ER last month and spent 5 days in the hospital. The bill for hospital services alone (No ambulance or doctors fees) was $18,477.06 . Yes, she has Medicare that pays most of it. BUT how would a person in an accident or sick and without insurance pay for a bill like this ??????? Even more extreme, my daughter was hit by a drunk driver (the Ba...rd's 3rd DUI) she spent 21 days in ICU, the medical expenses in the 3&1/2 years since are in excess of 2 MILLION dollars and will continue to rise for the rest of her life. It is a good thing my son-in-law has good insurance because the walking corpse had everything in his wife's name since his first DUI..... Medical insurance IS NOT A LUXURY in this day and age. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by HovisPresley on 06/26/15 at 17:10:15 As an English-financial-contributor to our NHS, I can read what Serow has written and know that we not only agree, but are from the same 'mindset'..... Remember, those that look at Obama's view on healthcare, that here we've had over half a century of National Health Service....and as a society, I believe that we are much better for it... (sorry, oldindian, we posted together simultaneously ;) ) |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/26/15 at 18:00:28 IMO, health care is a mess. I , based on everything I've seen, I only see it heading downhill. I'm on record. The past is just a prelude. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by HovisPresley on 06/26/15 at 20:39:51 0B141215080F3E0E3E06141853610 wrote:
.................................. Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be.... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/27/15 at 08:48:40 To All - I agree that changes were needed, and as I've said before, simply outlawing preexisting condition exclusions and lifetime maximum benefits would have solved 90% of the problem. Obamacare did both, thankfully, but it then went too far with the subsidies. Insurance is like anything else - supply and demand. The law should have simply required everyone to procure insurance in a given degree of coverage, like we do for auto insurance, and stopped there. The reason that health insurance has always been expensive is that insurance is a risk spreading device. The insurer collects premium from low and high risk people, and from that basket of dollars, pays out claims. Before, young healthy people we free to not buy health insurance, effectively denying the insurer those premium dollars from the low risk group. So the insurer is left insuring the high risk group, generally middle age and older folks, who have claims. You can either require everyone to buy insurance, without subsidies, or require everyone to pay tax into a gov't run system. Effect is the same for coverage, except that anytime the gov't runs anything, it's less efficient and more costly than private companies doing the same. Of course gov't has to provide for the armed forces, police, fire protection, highways, and other essential gov't functions. Health insurance isn't one of them. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/27/15 at 09:13:31 Then why is it that every country with a national health, does it for less than half of what we pay now?... It's not our super superior technology or skill... Even simple procedures... An appendix removal can cost between $1.500 to $180,000 depending on where you take the surgery http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/study-hospitals-billings-shocks-researchers-appendix-removal-cost-1-500-180-000-depending-surgery-article-1.1066207 The degree of price variations is bought home in a new report by the London-based International Federation of Health Plans, representing 100 insurance companies. The average cost of a CT scan for the head is (US$) $82 in Argentina, $175 in UK $566 in America. The highest prices for what is a routine procedure can be around US$1,672 in America, according to figures from the World Health Organisation and OECD. On the surgical front, average prices for appendix removal are (all US$): Argentina 953 Spain 2,245 South Africa 3,381 UK 3,408 Chile 4,221 France 4,463 Netherlands 4,498 Switzerland 4,782 New Zealand 5,392 Australia 5,467 USA 8,156 |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/27/15 at 10:25:03 Stats like these tell only the part of the story that the writer wants to be told. For instance, what are the malpractice laws in each of these countries? Can a patient who is the victim of professional negligence get a legal recovery from the person whose negligence injured or killed him? If the medical providers have immunity, or if the laws of that country limit recovery, of course care is cheaper there. What are the average wages of all of the staff involved from the surgeon, to the OR nurse, to the after surgery docs and nurses, all of the way down to the janitor who cleans up the OR after the procedure? You have to compare apples to apples. In the U.S., a surgical nurse earns more money than does a surgeon in many parts of the world. Some countries give immunity to their national health service providers, while others severely restrict recovery. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by old.indian on 06/28/15 at 10:04:41 "Tort Reform" is a major issue between the Medical and Legal professions in this country. The cost of malpractice insurance is a/ the major factor in most medical practices. And with the restricted amounts Medicare pays many doctors are no longer accepting Medicare patients or are leaving the profession all together. I was told recently by a young doctor that for him to open his own office, he would have to pay a $100,000 premium for malpractice insurance before he could accept his first patient. AND if you believe that government provided health care is the way to go, we'll put you in the VA and see what you think of that. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by thumperclone on 06/28/15 at 10:31:14 if you believe that government provided health care is the way to go, we'll put you in the VA and see what you think of that. [/quote] I've been in our local VAMC system for over 5 years & have no complaints or issues co pay on meds is my only cash outlay |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by cobra0071 on 06/28/15 at 14:11:21 . |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/15 at 15:13:24 I think cobra made a point. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Serowbot on 06/28/15 at 15:22:25 ;D... |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Art Webb on 07/16/15 at 21:23:12 677B667E637661707F7C7D76130 wrote:
I've been in our local VAMC system for over 5 years & have no complaints or issues co pay on meds is my only cash outlay [/quote] but we have vets in other places unable to receive treatment Austin doesn't have a VA hospital, and travel pay is given to a vet after arrival if he has to travel to a VA facility, or that's how it was back then Know what my old man was doing when he wound up a cripple for the 3 years he lasted before he died? Walking from Austin to the nearest VA hospital in SA to get treatment because he was unemployed at that time and didn't have a car or money for a bus ticket 20 years of service, veteran of a foreign war, and he either was hit by a car or fell asleep on his feet walking and fell from an overpass (those are our two best guesses, he had no memory of the incident) because the VA wouldn't let hum go to a local hospital because it was too expensive Yay government insurance they did take good care of my mom, after she reache retirement age (she was already in a nursing home) |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/15 at 17:12:16 Mr. Webb, words fail.. I feel gut punched. |
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Title: Re: Words Mean Nothing - SCOTUS Obaamcare Ruling Post by Art Webb on 07/19/15 at 09:06:40 Thank you Justin 33 years later I'm still pissed at our government for the way they treat veterans and their survivors |
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